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Aalay

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Unless he could predict what was going to happen, that's called luck, mate.

Hah you sound just like Bishan Singh Bedi. To have guts to even be able to take those decisions when you are under most pressure is what makes it remarkable. I don't think any captain would have handed the ball to Joginder Sharma against Misbah in a WC final. Of course Misbah played a bad shot but it was the bowler and the pace at which he was bowling brought that shot out of Misbah. No one has the ability to control everything but luck is basically what you get after you give your 100%. That is exactly what Dhoni did in crunch situations where he gave his everything and then left it on luck. He had enough courage to trust his instinct rather than following on what was obvious. To state that he was "lucky" is diabolical.

It is unarguably the hardest job in cricket to captain the Indian national team. The amount of expectations, pressure the captain goes through is absolutely insane. One of the best thing that Dhoni taught Indians was that at the end of the day, it is just a game and not a life-death situation. You are likely to win some and are equally likely to lose some matches. It wasn't something new and we already knew this but the way in which he implemented that belief in the fans was amazing.
 

CerealKiller

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And you tell that "If Misbah had played a more sensible shot, or had connected with that scoop, would we be praising this move?". He kept a fielder down there and Sreesanth caught the catch. Didn't he ? Even though that fielder is almost mandatory in all the matches, MSD did place a fielder there and he caught it. Sreeseanth didn't go there magically. He was there because Dhoni told him to go there. That was a move by captain. What's luck in that ?
There's your answer.
Who knows what he would have thought? Maybe it was his luck that his team performed in most conditions... (By your logic)
Are you comparing WI's performance over years with just two single instances?
Hah you sound just like Bishan Singh Bedi. To have guts to even be able to take those decisions when you are under most pressure is what makes it remarkable. I don't think any captain would have handed the ball to Joginder Sharma against Misbah in a WC final. Of course Misbah played a bad shot but it was the bowler and the pace at which he was bowling brought that shot out of Misbah. No one has the ability to control everything but luck is basically what you get after you give your 100%. That is exactly what Dhoni did in crunch situations where he gave his everything and then left it on luck. He had enough courage to trust his instinct rather than following on what was obvious. To state that he was "lucky" is diabolical.

It is unarguably the hardest job in cricket to captain the Indian national team. The amount of expectations, pressure the captain goes through is absolutely insane. One of the best thing that Dhoni taught Indians was that at the end of the day, it is just a game and not a life-death situation. You are likely to win some and are equally likely to lose some matches. It wasn't something new and we already knew this but the way in which he implemented that belief in the fans was amazing.
But he did make some blunders by trusting his instinct sometimes, didn't he? For example, bowling out his main bowlers in the 16th over in the WT20 semifinal this year, or relying on part timers to fill 4 overs in the T20 series against Pakistan in 2012.

Talking about the words i emboldened, you're saying he left it on luck after giving his 100% , but we shouldn't say he was lucky? Well, i agree that of course some credit should go to him for making those decisions, but luck was the biggest factor.
 
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zwarrior

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There's your answer.

If you tell everything as lucky, then you might as well tell that when the ball touches the bat and runs to the boundary, that is also luck. He has won 3 major ICC trophies. The only player to do so and you are telling many of them are by luck ?

The changes he made. He gave the ball to Joginder to bowl and he got that Misbah's wicket. It was his decision to bring Joginder. Don't tell that Misbah didn't connect properly. If you go like that many wickets and many matches which were won will fall under "luck".

Here, luck is when preparation meets opportunity. It's not something blind. Atleast in cricket. Didn't expect this from you.
 

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If you tell everything as lucky, then you might as well tell that when the ball touches the bat and runs to the boundary, that is also luck. He has won 3 major ICC trophies. The only player to do so and you are telling many of them are by luck ?

The changes he made. He gave the ball to Joginder to bowl and he got that Misbah's wicket. It was his decision to bring Joginder. Don't tell that Misbah didn't connect properly. If you go like that many wickets and many matches which were won will fall under "luck".

Here, luck is when preparation meets opportunity. It's not something blind. Atleast in cricket. Didn't expect this from you.
I never said his trophies were won by luck. They were fully deserved. But i'm saying that in those 2 instances (decisions to give the ball to Joginder and Ishant Sharma) he was lucky that those bowlers did well. I'm just talking about those bowlers, not the match, not the tournament.
 

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I never said his trophies were won by luck. They were fully deserved. But i'm saying that in those 2 instances (decisions to give the ball to Joginder and Ishant Sharma) he was lucky that those bowlers did well. I'm just talking about those bowlers, not the match, not the tournament.
Alright. I respect your opinion.

Let's say he was lucky with Joginder. I can't argue more on that. I laid out my points. I don't completely agree with this, by the way.

But, I don't agree with Ishant. He didn't give the ball to Bhuvi, or Yadav who were bowling very well. But he gave the ball to Ishant who was already bowling horribly. Do you think MSD just gave the ball to Ishant hoping for LUCK ? No. He had some plan. And he gave the ball to Ishant. Otherwise he would have given the ball to Bhuvi or Yadav and would have hoped for LUCK and hoping they control the batsmen which would be a VALID choice because they were bowling well. But NO. He gave the ball to Ishant with some plan in his mind. I can't agree that there is luck involved with his decision giving the ball to Ishant.
 

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Can we please stick with India Cricket Discussion? The topic of Dhoni and his LUCK has been dragged to enough no. of post and we must not forget that its not the thread dedicated to MSD.

Btw the meeting of BCCI selection committee was delayed and was ultimately started at 3:30PM IST. There is a sign of Rishabh Pant getting his national call-up. Hope we don't see too different team under Virat.

EDIT: Meeting is over and is awaiting the official announcement of India squad.
 

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What is Shikhar Dhawan doing in that ODI team? How many chances will he get?

Happy to see Rishabh, Mandeep, Chahal in the T20 squad. We will likely see Mandeep and Rahul opening the innings for India in T20s.
 

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Alright. I respect your opinion.

Let's say he was lucky with Joginder. I can't argue more on that. I laid out my points. I don't completely agree with this, by the way.

But, I don't agree with Ishant. He didn't give the ball to Bhuvi, or Yadav who were bowling very well. But he gave the ball to Ishant who was already bowling horribly. Do you think MSD just gave the ball to Ishant hoping for LUCK ? No. He had some plan. And he gave the ball to Ishant. Otherwise he would have given the ball to Bhuvi or Yadav and would have hoped for LUCK and hoping they control the batsmen which would be a VALID choice because they were bowling well. But NO. He gave the ball to Ishant with some plan in his mind. I can't agree that there is luck involved with his decision giving the ball to Ishant.
Let's agree on that and move on :)
 

Aalay

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But he did make some blunders by trusting his instinct sometimes, didn't he?

Who doesn't? No one is perfect my friend and everyone will make mistake at some point.

For example, bowling out his main bowlers in the 16th over in the WT20 semifinal this year

What other choice did he have? They were attacking all the bowlers and he decided to stick to those whose only role in the team is to bowl which was his best bet to get wickets at that time. He knew that he can't contain that WI line-up because there were big hitters all the way till the end. He had to go for the wickets to have some chance of coming back into the game. It's just that India came up against a better team that night in terms of big hitting.

or relying on part timers to fill 4 overs in the T20 series against Pakistan in 2012.

This tells me that you don't know much about Dhoni's captaincy. During this year, we had a slight rule change in the field restrictions and Dhoni never quite got used to this rule and always gave his part timers a bit too many overs to bowl because he was still functioning as per the old rule. Dhoni LOVES using part time bowlers because we have never had a proper all-rounder in our limited overs squad. Jadeja rarely performed like an all-rounder. So he gave bowling to Yuvraj and Raina so he can have strong batting and also can fill up the 5th bowler's quota.

Talking about the words i emboldened, you're saying he left it on luck after giving his 100% , but we shouldn't say he was lucky? Well, i agree that of course some credit should go to him for making those decisions, but luck was the biggest factor.[/QUOTE]

Of course we shouldn't say he was lucky. As I said there, he gave his 100% which means he can not do anything more than that. He has done his part and now you have to hope that luck favours you. However, to have that luck on your side you first need to make sure that you have given your best so at least once the result is out whether it's positive or negative, you can at least say that you did as good as you can. Luck will always play some part in every decision that you make in your life but at the end of the day, it's your courage to take a decision and stand by it which will make the difference.
 

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I don't understand the Indian obsession with having Yuvraj back in the playing 11. Yes, he was a match winner but not only is he way past his prime, but is just a liability with the quality India have in their domestic circuit.
 

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Rahul Dravid:

Test: Played most balls in history

ODI: Scored 22 Balls Half Century

T20I: Hit 3 Consecutive sixes on debut


Happy Birthday Jammy !
 

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