India tour of Bangladesh, 2022 (3 ODIs, 2 Tests)

Fenil

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Unpopular opinion:

I see the bandwagon that Rahul Dravid needs to go and how bad he has been as a coach in terms of results.

Lets not forget that he was the one who overhauled the junior teams and gave us brilliant players at the U-19 and India A level be it Shaw, Jaiswal, Gill, Nagarkoti, Iyer, KL Rahul (he started off as a defensive wicket keeper batsman in his early days) Pant, Shivam Mavi et all and it was under him that we saw a killer instinct in the players at this level which means he was doing something right. We were all going gaga over his coaching ability and how he spurred a new energy and also the skill that was on display by the junior sides was a breath of fresh air.

He has been there and done that for years in the senior Indian cricket team and knows how tall the egos of some players can be which could be a reason why he was even vocal about how he wanted to stick to coaching the U-19 and 'A' side. On the contrary, Ravi Shastri was hardly seen REALLY coaching or talking anything about skills and execution in the middle barring instance few and far in between and basically was a 'yes man' of the captain/selection committee and looked as if major part of his work was just to be seen around the team doing nothing when is not chugging alcohol while the captain/selection committee called all the shots and frankly it worked quite well. There was a reason why Kumble was axed as a coach - because he was vocal about his own thoughts which collided with the egos of certain senior players - and why the 'yes man' was drafted in for the role.

What I am trying to suggest is that the players might think of themselves as way too big to get the tips from Dravid. I think the fans here are mistaking him as a defensive coach just because he was a defensive batsman. I would like to refresh the memories of such people that Dravid was the one who brought the aggressiveness in the junior side especially at the U-19 level when was in charge. Lets not undermine his contributions in that because those (U-19) players were way out of contention from IPL hence that cash rich league has nothing to do with the players' approach. Now, as for the defensive approach from the senior Indian team, it was foolish from the management to get both Rohit and Rahul to open together. Rohit has always started slowly and as someone said earlier in this thread, KL has changed his approach as a opener and seldom attacks until he is well settled much like Rohit. This left us with two guys at the top who took all their time in the world which only put pressure on the rest of the batsmen. Furthermore, in ODIs, KL batting at #5 has formidable numbers. We should have always had Gill to open with Rohit.




1.png

Indian cricket team have been way too media driven in the last few years be it the sudden inclusion of Pant in ODI World Cup by removing Vijay Shankar in the middle of the tournament after the selectors had a brainfade resulting in omission of Rayudu or even the selection of players on the basis of IPL and not domestic OD and FC cricket apart from preferring the players who 'look' flamboyant rather than the ones who actually chip in with the scores. How else would you justify so much chopping and changing in team. Even Irfan Pathan raised this issue about frequent changes in the side some time back. And this hasn't been limited to just the Rohit-Dravid time, it was there in full flow in Kohli-Shastri era too when at one time we had a team change in every single Test match though Test teams are supposed to be settled in comparison to the limited overs side.

I cannot wrap my head around the innumerable chances that Pant is getting in T20Is and ODIs on the back of his Test record. Granted that he has talent but its not 2004 where you would have to depend on a single wicket keeper in the side like we had to back then with Parthiv. We have the likes of Ishan and Sanju in the ranks for ODIs and T20Is (heck there is Jitesh Sharma too as a dark horse) and even Bharat as a backup for Tests. I am getting sick of him throwing away his wicket playing far too many reckless shots.

Also, I firmly believe that as much talent the guy posses and can do so much for the balance of side, India unfortunately needs to look past Deepak Chahar now. The guy spends way too much time being injured. Hopefully he can strengthen his body otherwise I cannot see him having a long INTL career and might be reduced to having Mohit Sharma's fate.

If you ask me, India should let their coach to actually have their say in the side for once. If Dravid can be overhaul the playing style of the junior team, if he can give career defining tips to Kevin Pietersen and Younus Khan back in the day, he certainly can provide all the goods with the immense knowledge and skill that he has if only the senior Indian team players are ready to give a listen to the man.
 
B

Bigby Wolf

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Just saw the clip of how KL Rahul got out yesterday.

Absolutely Shocking that.

It means that either he is just too cocky or lacks basic game awareness.
 
B

Bigby Wolf

Guest
Unpopular opinion:

I see the bandwagon that Rahul Dravid needs to go and how bad he has been as a coach in terms of results.

Lets not forget that he was the one who overhauled the junior teams and gave us brilliant players at the U-19 and India A level be it Shaw, Jaiswal, Gill, Nagarkoti, Iyer, KL Rahul (he started off as a defensive wicket keeper batsman in his early days) Pant, Shivam Mavi et all and it was under him that we saw a killer instinct in the players at this level which means he was doing something right. We were all going gaga over his coaching ability and how he spurred a new energy and also the skill that was on display by the junior sides was a breath of fresh air.

He has been there and done that for years in the senior Indian cricket team and knows how tall the egos of some players can be which could be a reason why he was even vocal about how he wanted to stick to coaching the U-19 and 'A' side. On the contrary, Ravi Shastri was hardly seen REALLY coaching or talking anything about skills and execution in the middle barring instance few and far in between and basically was a 'yes man' of the captain/selection committee and looked as if major part of his work was just to be seen around the team doing nothing when is not chugging alcohol while the captain/selection committee called all the shots and frankly it worked quite well. There was a reason why Kumble was axed as a coach - because he was vocal about his own thoughts which collided with the egos of certain senior players - and why the 'yes man' was drafted in for the role.

What I am trying to suggest is that the players might think of themselves as way too big to get the tips from Dravid. I think the fans here are mistaking him as a defensive coach just because he was a defensive batsman. I would like to refresh the memories of such people that Dravid was the one who brought the aggressiveness in the junior side especially at the U-19 level when was in charge. Lets not undermine his contributions in that because those (U-19) players were way out of contention from IPL hence that cash rich league has nothing to do with the players' approach. Now, as for the defensive approach from the senior Indian team, it was foolish from the management to get both Rohit and Rahul to open together. Rohit has always started slowly and as someone said earlier in this thread, KL has changed his approach as a opener and seldom attacks until he is well settled much like Rohit. This left us with two guys at the top who took all their time in the world which only put pressure on the rest of the batsmen. Furthermore, in ODIs, KL batting at #5 has formidable numbers. We should have always had Gill to open with Rohit.




View attachment 273629

Indian cricket team have been way too media driven in the last few years be it the sudden inclusion of Pant in ODI World Cup by removing Vijay Shankar in the middle of the tournament after the selectors had a brainfade resulting in omission of Rayudu or even the selection of players on the basis of IPL and not domestic OD and FC cricket apart from preferring the players who 'look' flamboyant rather than the ones who actually chip in with the scores. How else would you justify so much chopping and changing in team. Even Irfan Pathan raised this issue about frequent changes in the side some time back. And this hasn't been limited to just the Rohit-Dravid time, it was there in full flow in Kohli-Shastri era too when at one time we had a team change in every single Test match though Test teams are supposed to be settled in comparison to the limited overs side.

I cannot wrap my head around the innumerable chances that Pant is getting in T20Is and ODIs on the back of his Test record. Granted that he has talent but its not 2004 where you would have to depend on a single wicket keeper in the side like we had to back then with Parthiv. We have the likes of Ishan and Sanju in the ranks for ODIs and T20Is (heck there is Jitesh Sharma too as a dark horse) and even Bharat as a backup for Tests. I am getting sick of him throwing away his wicket playing far too many reckless shots.

Also, I firmly believe that as much talent the guy posses and can do so much for the balance of side, India unfortunately needs to look past Deepak Chahar now. The guy spends way too much time being injured. Hopefully he can strengthen his body otherwise I cannot see him having a long INTL career and might be reduced to having Mohit Sharma's fate.

If you ask me, India should let their coach to actually have their say in the side for once. If Dravid can be overhaul the playing style of the junior team, if he can give career defining tips to Kevin Pietersen and Younus Khan back in the day, he certainly can provide all the goods with the immense knowledge and skill that he has if only the senior Indian team players are ready to give a listen to the man.
There are two things to that.

One with the A team and U19 he is leading with ab absolute clear mindset of developing the players and making sure they are ready to play for national side.

The vision is set with certain set of players.

Second is when it comes to coaching the national side how much say does he have in selecting the players which is the biggest concern at the moment.

Players are selected randomly every different series how the tweak are we supposed to play or gel as unit in tournaments.

As I said in the previous post either he or Rohit should have a vision going forward to 2023 wc.

Pick a certain group of players say like 18-20 play them before final squad is selected regularly and define their roles in the squad.

Not like Hooda opening in few series and batting at 6 in others.
 

Ahmad94

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At the end of the day, India is going to a major change after legends get old or retire (ala. Pakistan through the 2010’s with the Inzi, Wasim, Waqar etc retirement). In a few years or so, there will be no more Kohli, Rohit Sharma nor Dhawan – we have already seen the end of Dhoni and Kedhar Yadav.

Blaming a coach is often an easy escape goat. Shastri may have been a “yes man” but he was dealing with a prime Kohli and Rohit with Bhuvi being decent and Bumrah being the x-factor. His tenor ran from July 2017 till Oct 2021 just before the WC 2021 T20 – this was the stats from just these two.

KohliSpanMatInnsNORunsHSAveBFSR1005004s6s
2008-2022264255391235818357.211331792.794364151161125
2017-2021656493912160*71.12399497.941519237434
Rohit Sharma2007-202223522834945426448.731057289.42294614863256
2017-2021696883770208*62.8339279618122368120

Since his departure – they have both had a lull. And the remaining players have been a little hit an miss. Rather than blaming the coach – let the players have a few proper series. Sherayas Iyer is coming through as a solid replacement, Shub Gill is cming through. Give it time and the side will rise again. The worry for India has never been the batting and I would argue that is still the case - the issue has always been bowling - and it seems still to be a little bit of a weak spot with Bumrah injured
 
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Bigby Wolf

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At the end of the day, India is going to a major change after legends get old or retire (ala. Pakistan through the 2010’s with the Inzi, Wasim, Waqar etc retirement). In a few years or so, there will be no more Kohli, Rohit Sharma nor Dhawan – we have already seen the end of Dhoni and Kedhar Yadav.

Blaming a coach is often an easy escape goat. Shastri
Wait a minute.

Kedar Jadhav.:D

Well India also gone through a transition phase back in 2011-13 when Sachin, Laxman & Dravid and Sehwag,Zaheer, Gambhir , Harbhajan where left out of the squad for the development of younger players back in the day where they are senior now.

Imagine having a replacement of them but India did found a suitable players in respective positions or players.

The only thing India cricket is lacking a stability or lack of leadership at the top.

Once that is sorted with a clear vision Indian cricket will be good to go again.
 

Ahmad94

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Wait a minute.

Kedar Jadhav.:D

Well India also gone through a transition phase back in 2011-13 when Sachin, Laxman & Dravid and Sehwag,Zaheer, Gambhir , Harbhajan where left out of the squad for the development of younger players back in the day where they are senior now.

Imagine having a replacement of them but India did found a suitable players in respective positions or players.

The only thing India cricket is lacking a stability or lack of leadership at the top.

Once that is sorted with a clear vision Indian cricket will be good to go again.

Tbh - Laxman and Dravid were still playing the 00's cricket and needed to be replaced. MS Dhoni had been captain for a few years and was at his prime, Kohli was coming in to his own by 2013! It was a young team re inventing themselves. Rohit Sharma got promoted and stopped throwing his wicket away and got an aggressive opener in Dhawan . Suresh Raina went through a beast mode for a while where he was hitting half centuries at over 100.

After Zaheer i don't remember a standout bowler for India till Bumrah. I mean Dinda and Vinay Kumar was never anywhere near international level, yet it was about plugging the gap.
 
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Bigby Wolf

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Tbh - Laxman and Dravid were still playing the 00's cricket and needed to be replaced. MS Dhoni had been captain for a few years and was at his prime, Kohli was coming in to his own by 2013! It was a young team re inventing themselves. Rohit Sharma got promoted and stopped throwing his wicket away and got an aggressive opener in Dhawan . Suresh Raina went through a beast mode for a while where he was hitting half centuries at over 100.

After Zaheer i don't remember a standout bowler for India till Bumrah. I mean Dinda and Vinay Kumar was never anywhere near international level, yet it was about plugging the gap.
And MS just like in 2008 has a vision in 2012 for moving forward.

Unlike today where India lacks a leader just at the top.

Thats where the root cause is , Rohit at 35 the captain was always going to be found wanting.

Henceforth my conclusion or 2 cents just have a short term goal for WC 23 with a pool of 18-20 players untill final 15 is selected.

The rebuilding with the current crop Pant,Iyer,Gill,Bumrah,Hardik and the rest can take place after the WC is over.
 
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Bevab

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Jaydav Unadkat in place Shami!!! This entire team has become a joke!

For the tests? I’m happy for Unadkat as he’s been perhaps the most impressive pacer in domestic cricket for years but this selection just feels a bit off… like it’s come a year or two too late. Still I’m not sure why you’re outraged, it’s a one off selection at the end of the day and I doubt he’ll play in any case.

EDIT - I’m not sure why he wasn’t in the A team if there was a plan for him to be picked though. As I said… it feels like something is off and there is a clash of ideologies and planning in the setup.
 

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Can't believe this India playing Bazball today :laughter::laughter: well done.
 
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Bigby Wolf

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Ishan Kishan roaring after 100.

Kohli on non striker be like - well that reminded me of someone :D.
 

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