5th Test: England vs Australia at the Brit Oval

[Deleted member 11215]

KP werent you the one claiming ravi bopara to be the new english messiah now you've jumped right on his back? I agree with calls for Cook to bat at 3 for me he's the best no.3 we have available to us and because he isnt doing the stuff opening its worth giving him a crack. I'd line up like this.

Strauss
Key
Cook
Trott
Collingwood
Prior
Flintoff
Broad
Swann
Anderson(If fit)/Harmison
Onions

Unproven but worth a go imo otherwise if cooks opening id play Ramps and Trott and take out Key

 

[Howsie]

Angryangy I fully agree with what you said, but posting it twice was a bit over the top

I doubt Anderson's going to miss the last test, he probably wasn't even injured. But if for some reason he doesn't play I'd bring Sidebottom in, no way would I want to see Harmison back in the team.

 

[King Pietersen]

I was. Until he failed epicly in this series. I'd have to be abit of a prat to still be claiming him to be the English Messiah after a series as bad as this. Needs a break away from Test cricket, go back to Essex, work on his technique with Gooch and come back a better player. I've been saying all along that I still believe he's good enough to play Test cricket, just no longer think he'll be a Test #3, far too loose. Hopefully he'll go away and have a Michael Clarke-esque glorious return.

 

[Howsie]

I was. Until he failed epicly in this series. I'd have to be abit of a prat to still be claiming him to be the English Messiah after a series as bad as this. Needs a break away from Test cricket, go back to Essex, work on his technique with Gooch and come back a better player. I've been saying all along that I still believe he's good enough to play Test cricket, just no longer think he'll be a Test #3, far too loose. Hopefully he'll go away and have a Michael Clarke-esque glorious return.

He just looks to loose to succed at three for a good period of time. Much like Jesse Ryder.

Halfway through his first innings in the first test

But after watching him for over a month now, I think he has a few more technical things to work out.

 

[King Pietersen]

I don't think the looseness is too much of a technical issue. I think his main technical issue is constantly hitting the ball in the air. Although all those things could be fixed if he sorted out his obvious mental frailties at the highest level, against the top opposition. He can get away with his looseness in OD and T20 cricket, but he needs to learn to adapt his game, and be positive in attack and defence in Test cricket. He just seems to be lazy in defence far too often. Hopefully Gooch'll help him sort it out.

 

[Howsie]

I was actually trying to say that the looseness isn't one of his main concerns atm, he still has other things to work on like you said. I still don't think his footwork is that great tbh, but that could be because he's very low on confindence.

With the amount of One Day and T20 cricket going on these days it's going to take a lot of mental work to get over this, that's why I would rather you're number three not playing that much One Day cricket unless they're very good.

 

[TheGreemSim]

Rob Key in for Cook and Trott in for Bopara... it has to be done.

 

[Ollie_H]

:laugh Good point.

I'd be annoyed if Ramprakash got a call-up. He had his chance, and blew it, proved he didn't have the mental strength to score runs at the highest level. Trescothick the same, he had mental issues that stopped him from feeling comfortable and enjoying cricket at the highest level, move on. We've got a wealth of very good cricketers waiting in line, and I simply do not see the worth of picking a guy who's almost 40, and had a poor Test career in the past. Makes no sense whatsoever. Might as well try and bring Graeme Hick back as well. He was doing the same thing.

To sum up, my team = win.

But the thing is, he may have had a poor career but he averaged 42 against the aussies, which is a lot better than some of the averages we have at the moment.

 

[King Pietersen]

When your average is only slightly higher than you're age, we've got a problem. The bloke is almost 40 years old, he's far too old to be coming back into a format where he failed to excel in when he was in his prime, and when he's got no real future in the format. I know it's an old English clich?, but we do have to be looking forward, and not just picking a team with guys in that aren't going to be on that plane to South Africa in the winter. Ramprakash has no Test future, so shouldn't be picked. We'd be far better off going in with Key, Trott or one of the other, younger performers who have a genuine future in the game. I understand we need to win that 1 game, but I don't think Ramprakash is someone that would help us win that game, I would rather stick with Bell than pick Ramps.

 

[woodzy]

When your average is only slightly higher than you're age, we've got a problem. The bloke is almost 40 years old, he's far too old to be coming back into a format where he failed to excel in when he was in his prime, and when he's got no real future in the format. I know it's an old English clich?, but we do have to be looking forward, and not just picking a team with guys in that aren't going to be on that plane to South Africa in the winter. Ramprakash has no Test future, so shouldn't be picked. We'd be far better off going in with Key, Trott or one of the other, younger performers who have a genuine future in the game. I understand we need to win that 1 game, but I don't think Ramprakash is someone that would help us win that game, I would rather stick with Bell than pick Ramps.

How is he too old? I just dont get how you can come to that conclusion. Its just a number. Age is only relevant if it has an affect on his physical capabilities and skills. With regards to Ramprakash it is completely irrelevant and he is scoring better than ever. The thing is, 3 years ago when he was plundering county attacks, people said he was too old and that it wouldnt last etc. 3 years on and he is as still scoring consistently. I really think the England selector missed a beat back then. I think if hes given another chance then he would surely play test cricket for another few seasons at least, just to prove he is capable at playing at this level.

 

[Ollie_H]

You know what, at the moment I couldn't give to ticks about the future. Currently this isn't about the future this is winning the Ashes. I am completely different to you, and although Ramps may have bottled it in his career, Bell is currently bottling his. If Ramps gets picked and he does bugger all I will put my hands up and say you know better, if he gets picked and he actually does something, it's gonna be hate to say I told you so.

You for one is someone who thinks players should be called up on domestic form, Ramps has been performing domestically for the past 3 seasons, surely thats slightly hyprocitical, no?

holdenator added 2 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

But I don't go to the extremes that Woodzy above is going to, I probably wouldn't be taking him on more tours. Stewart was still playing for England when he was 40. I think we need Ramps, it's his home ground and he has been plundering runs left right and centre. Can't beat it really.

 

[ZoraxDoom]

And Ramps wasn't in his prime when he was first picked. He is in his prime now.

 

[Sureshot]

People mention Key for a new opener (though, I think Cook has been poor, I think he's done enough to stay in the side, just), I'd rather have Carberry over Key.

 

[manee]

Probably just highlights the fact that picking at div2 player isn't a good idea

:doh. He acknowledged that Ramps scored runs in Division One last year which is why he brought up stats from last year.

Ramps for the Oval!

manee added 4 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

KP werent you the one claiming ravi bopara to be the new english messiah now you've jumped right on his back?

Indeed, could be seen as fickle but there really are no excuses for Bopara's performances thus far in the series.

But the thing is, he may have had a poor career but he averaged 42 against the aussies, which is a lot better than some of the averages we have at the moment.

Indeed, but people are too willing to use career statistics despite the fact that they are jack all use when determining the value of a player.

 

[Hooper]

England flops sent back to county cricket - The Ashes 2009 - Fox Sports

Bopara, Bell and Paul Collingwood managed just 16 runs between them in six visits to the crease in Leeds and will need to repair confidence with the final Ashes Test at the Oval just 10 days away.

That is just shocking. What a middle order. :sarcasm