Ashes 2015 - Australia tour of England July/September 2015

[grkrama]

Anderson has had only couple of good overseas tour one against Aus in 2011 and against india in 2013 during that transitions phase. Apart from that he hasnt made much of an impact overseas. IIRC he used to average 40+ before that aus tour overseas.


He is a treat to watch in swinging conditions with great control but other than that i cant remember him as a potential threat in other conditions from memory.

 

[PokerAce]

disagree with this. had some merit in the past, but less so now at the beginning of the series. Look at WI series earlier this year. But he wouldn't have been able to produce that later in the series. that's the concern... back in 2013 he had a big effort to help us win at Trent Bridge then did nothing for another year! does he have the fitness to play back to back test matches and 5 match series? it's looking like not - it's a long standing problem. the deadness of the pitch just exacerbates it.

jimmy has proven he can take wickets in all conditions, the question mark now is whether he can last a series or cope with back to backs.

I am afraid the stats don't agree. If you look up the stats Anderson's average takes a very serious dip. His average in 66 tests in England is 27, while in away matches it goes up to a staggering 34.04. No matter how you look at it, that average of 34 in 44 tests (not a small sample size) clearly shows he struggles in non-english conditions. Thus Anderson settles for a career average of 29.

The similarity in this regard with Kumble is staggering. Kumble, who also has a career average of 29. In tests in India, Kumble averages 24.88, while in tests outside Asia (filtered for tests in Oceania, America, Europe and Africa) his average goes up to 35.25.

These are two near identical stories.

 

[blockerdave]

But I think the point is what you're saying was true for Jimmy at the beginning of his career - less so now. Hence his overall stats show that.

Mark Butcher would be a prime example - at the beginning if his career his average was an unimpressive 28. Then he came back into the side and averaged 45 for 3 years, but his career ave was only 35.

Got to look behind the stats.

 

[PokerAce]

Okay I filtered the results for the past 3 three years (June 2012- July 2015), I think they would constitute recent years, and you do seem to have a point for his "away" average in these "recent years" improves to 31.20 (from 34 overall away).

The point however is that in the same period his home average is 27.82. This while 31.20 is an improvement from 34, but I still don't think 31.2 is such an effective average to be honest.

So while he is improving, no doubt, but has he improved enough to be be considered effective away, as much as home? I am not so sure.

Anyway while we disagree a fair bit, I think the one thing we both do agree on is that Anderson (like Kumble), is lethal on pitches that aid his bowling, and England need to unleash that side of him in Edgebaston and give him a proper pitch.

 

[stefan]

Averages can be deceiving. The pitches Anderson played on in the second series were made for spinners, as I recall, and he still bowled rather well.

Anderson however was very poor in both innings in this match. The bowlers were as much to blame for this defeat as the batsmen. Except Broad, they were all poor. Moeens wickets only came via mistimed slogs.

If a pitch has something for spinners then it will generally have some reverse swing as well.

Simply put Anderson doesn't have the skill on pitches that don't favor traditional swing. He averages 32 in Asia, Steyn averages 22 and Pigeon 23. Or do you think the asia curators prepared green tops for Dale and Glen...

 

[stefan]

Okay I filtered the results for the past 3 three years (June 2012- July 2015), I think they would constitute recent years, and you do seem to have a point for his "away" average in these "recent years" improves to 31.20 (from 34 overall away).

The point however is that in the same period his home average is 27.82. This while 31.20 is an improvement from 34, but I still don't think 31.2 is such an effective average to be honest.

So while he is improving, no doubt, but has he improved enough to be be considered effective away, as much as home? I am not so sure.

Anyway while we disagree a fair bit, I think the one thing we both do agree on is that Anderson (like Kumble), is lethal on pitches that aid his bowling, and England need to unleash that side of him in Edgebaston and give him a proper pitch.

I would still consider 31 to be pretty poor for your sides so called leading bowler. Same period Steyn averages 23 and Mitch Johnson 22.

 

[richowebbo]

Hmm ... by custom made of course I mean typical english wickets, with plenty of grass and lateral movement off the pitch.

For instance in Edgebaston, I expect the wicket to be green and have support for Anderson, hence I used the phrase "custom made". The larger part however still remains.

Anderson is the best bowler in the world on pitches that help him, and looks ordinary more often than not on pitches that don't aid his kind of bowling, much like it was with Kumble back in the day.

Sorry man, custom made, made it sound like they built wickets just for Jimmy! My mi-understanding.

Yes you are bang on about Anderson. Unplayable on green wickets, with carry through on a cloudy day (most English cricket wickets/weather!)

 

[richowebbo]

If a pitch has something for spinners then it will generally have some reverse swing as well.

Simply put Anderson doesn't have the skill on pitches that don't favor traditional swing. He averages 32 in Asia, Steyn averages 22 and Pigeon 23. Or do you think the asia curators prepared green tops for Dale and Glen...

Not at all. But I don't think they are the same kind of bowlers. I'm not a massive Anderson fan or anything. He's had some good series away from home. You don't get as many wickets as he does without doing so.

The guys you have named, and the current crop of Australians, they bowl hard and fast at the wicket, with occasional bounce, and it stops batsmen getting into a rhythm. We don't really have that kind of Bowler at the moment, and Anderson has never been that kind of bowler.

I have very much enjoyed watching Josh Hazelwood bowl this summer. He's not quick, but he bowls full and gets a hint of late swing. I'd like to see Anderson do this more. Get the ball up and see if he can get some late natural swing.

 

[PokerAce]

Not at all. But I don't think they are the same kind of bowlers. I'm not a massive Anderson fan or anything. He's had some good series away from home. You don't get as many wickets as he does without doing so.

The guys you have named, and the current crop of Australians, they bowl hard and fast at the wicket, with occasional bounce, and it stops batsmen getting into a rhythm. We don't really have that kind of Bowler at the moment, and Anderson has never been that kind of bowler.

I have very much enjoyed watching Josh Hazelwood bowl this summer. He's not quick, but he bowls full and gets a hint of late swing. I'd like to see Anderson do this more. Get the ball up and see if he can get some late natural swing.

Yeah Anderson is not going to do that job ... but I did like Wood, and I think he should have done that job for England. To bowl fast and full and not let the batsman settle into any kind of rythm.

 

[blockerdave]

Ballance dropped & Bell promoted to 3.

You drop both or just Bell; dropping just Ballance is a disgrace. It is a message for every English cricketer that if you have an unorthodox technique you will be jettisoned at the first bad patch, have a nice technique you can fail indefinitely.

It cannot be stated enough that Ballance has outscored Bell the whole time he has been in the side, including in this series; Bell has failed whenever he has been tried at 3 and in fact has never been successful batting higher than 5.

When Bell fails at 3 as he surely well, the entire selection committe up to and including Strauss should be fired.

 

[Dutch]

Promoting Bell up the order??? If he is to be in the side surely he needs to drop down?????

 

[blockerdave]

Not been angrier since Jack Russell was dropped for Richard Blakey on the 93 tour to India.

If an opener falls early, is there anyone who would have any confidence at all in Bell walking out at 3? The way Lyth is batting we have guaranteed being 20/2 in the next match.

The poor decisions over the last 2 years coming home to roost. The thinking is Bell must stay in at all costs because we need experience... perhaps if they hadn't discarded KP, or bought back Trott too early and out of position we might have experienced alternatives.

Ballance's confidence was shot from being picked out of form and out of position in the World Cup... being thrown to the wolves now despite outscoring Bell & Lyth is hardly going to help his confidence.

A terrible, illogical, disgusting decision. Make no mistake this is Strauss' side - he should be held fully accountable when it goes tits up.

 

[blockerdave]

I see the news of Bell's promotion has reached the aussies:

 

[aussie1st]

Dear oh dear how does Ballance get dropped but not Lyth? And moving an out of form player to the best spot in the batting lineup hmmm.

 

[richowebbo]

Dear oh dear how does Ballance get dropped but not Lyth? And moving an out of form player to the best spot in the batting lineup hmmm.

Dropping Lyth isn't right just yet.

Dropping Bell should have been first priority. Bring Bairstow in at 4 and Ballance to 5, with Root, by way of being our best player, had to go to 3. It seems to me that its a "keep our mates" in the team scenario, still. I don't think Ballance is great, but is young enough to keep improving, just down the order.

Utter garbage from England moving a player with no runs to the most important spot and a player totally out of form in all areas of the game (his catching has been appalling). The Aussies must be pissing themselves