England in New Zealand

[RoboRocks]

You have some baffling logic. Strauss should be replaced due to his failures over the last couple of years? Yeah, maybe you have a point there, but then to suggest that you replace him with Flintoff is just bizarre. The only way Flintoff will get back into the team will be with his bowling, his batting has gone south and he's not good enough on recent history to bat in the top 7, let alone top 6.

We need his bowling. We won the ashes win a 5 man attack, its not as good as that one but we need to be able to take 20 wickets and we haven't been able to. He is a proven performer with the bat. Hopefully if he can have some time in the middle then he can return to form but Strauss has had his oppotunities and not taken them.

 

[Ollie_H]

Slip Catching

Brilliant!!! I would love to have a player in my team that all he can do is a bit of slip catching! Sounds like quite the player to me!

 

[Sureshot]

We need his bowling. We won the ashes win a 5 man attack, its not as good as that one but we need to be able to take 20 wickets and we haven't been able to. He was a proven performer with the bat. Hopefully if he can have some time in the middle then he can return to form but Strauss has had his oppotunities and not taken them.

I had to make a change from present to past tense, Rob. I agree with it all know though.

 

[vaibhav mehta]

Brilliant!!! I would love to have a player in my team that all he can do is a bit of slip catching! Sounds like quite the player to me!

Ya At least He has done better than Vaughn in past 20 innings...

 

[irottev]

You're so very bitter, which you don't need to be, because everyone appreciates that NZ are in a transitional period. Although some of that is brought on themselves in my view. Or should I say by the management.

I didn't start this. I'm not the bitter one. Someone intended me to respond by saying our bowling attack is poor. So here it is.

Jacob Oram carried your attack, and without him you looked as ordinary.

Stuart Broad is a better player than Chris Martin, and

James Anderson is a better bowler than Tim Southee and Mark Gillespie.

Southee may have potential but he's not proven himself yet, he was very average in the 2nd innings.

Even Monty Panesar outbowled Daniel Vettori. We outbowled you in the series.

I'm going to respond to basically every point you made.

First of all, you say Jacob Oram carried our attack? What exactly do you call what Sidebottom did for you? e got the most wickets by a mile. Over double anyone else on either side. If that isn't carrying a side then I don't know what is.

Second, i'm not going to play these childish, opinionated this guy is better then this guy arguments. I notice you said, Broad is a better player then Chris Martin. That's true. I believe Martin is a better bowler and get more movement and pace then Broad, but he can't bat. Broad can bat, so as a player, of course. But the same can be said for Panesar and Vettori. I don't think the wickets suited spin bowling (or any bowling really, except seamers in Wellington). I think the last innings of the final match is really the only instance of real assistance for spinners. So really it's not fair to rate the spinners. I feel on a whole, Jeetan Patel bowled the best of the spinners. He looked the best anyway. Panesar really only performed well in that last innings and that was with assistance. Take that innings out and he was as average as the rest. He got a wicket from a long hop and a few guys holed out trying to set a total. He got a few good wickets, but he did get a few from dreadful shots.

Anderson came with a hiss and a roar but looked absolutely hopeless afterwalds. That's really the only part of your post which gets me. I'm quite offended even with all your bias, you consider Anderson better then two of our bowlers.

 

[King Pietersen]

I'm sorry, but Anderson is better than Southee. You say that Anderson came in with a hiss and a roar and then looked hopeless, what about Southee ? He came in, looked great in the 1st innings and then did nothing in the 2nd innings. James Anderson was magnificent in the 2nd test, and is a much better bowler than Southee in terms of what he's achieved in the game. There's no way you can claim Southee is better than Anderson atm. Gillespie looked unfit, he bowls 2 lengths, too full and too short, again, Anderson is a much better bowler.

I agree with your point about Jeetan Patel though, he looked very impressive in the 2 tests he played, he looks like he can bowl to a good gameplan, such as round the wicket to Ambrose etc.

I'm not biased, if you look at all my other posts in other forums you'll see that i'm not biased towards England; BUT we're a much better side than you in Tests. You have a few top players, such as Oram, Fleming, McCullum (over-rated though) and Vettori but the rest of the team is very ordinary. Players like Sinclair, Bell, Gillespie, Taylor, How, etc etc are all OK but have nothing on most test players. We deserved to win the series, we outbowled you and outbatted you at the key times. We were awful in the 1st test, but showed our class in the last 2 tests.

 

[irottev]

Of course you guys have a better side. For sure! And I agree you deserved to win. I'm not saying you didn't. I thought England still under-performed. I mean your top 6 all average above 40. None of our guys averaged over 40 before the game and Fleming just crept over that number and now he's retired. Bowling-wise, our guys did well all chipping in as a unit, but no one really destroyed.

I honestly don't think Southee can be compared when he's played 1 test on a flat deck.

And your point about Gillespie is correct. I don't think he was fully fit, he'd just come back from injury and hadn't had much bowling under his belt. He's only played 2 tests, so also unfair to judge or compare him.

I don't really want to continue the debate about who is better than who, because players have their periods/days where they're great and others where they under-perform. I'm just making the point that while someone thinks the NZ attack is poor, I wouldn't go talking yours up too much aside from Sidebottom, because once the likes of Anderson and Broad come up against say India or Australia, they won't be so forgiving. There'll be no Sinclairs, Elliots and Bells.

 

[Ollie_H]

Ya At least He has done better than Vaughn in past 20 innings...

But has Strauss captained in the past 20 innings? Errrr....Simple answer NO.

 

[irottev]

I don't know what the problem with Strauss is either. He just played a series winning knock really. Had he failed we may have gotten the runs.

Get off his back. Jeez, I wish we had more batsmen like him in our side. I'd swap Sinclair, Bell or Elliot for him any-day.

I shouldn't be so harsh on Elliot, he just scored another domestic century. 192 or something not out in a draw. I'd say he's going on the England tour. Daniel Flynn has scored centuries in his last 2 games so he'll probably get to go too. Sadly, Hay, Todd Fulton all failed. Squad is named tomorrow I believe?

 

[King Pietersen]

Well said Irrotev. We know that Strauss has his technical faults, but he managed to avoid playing the shots that had been getting him in trouble and played a fantastic innings, a match-winning knock. I find it hard to believe that people are saying it wasn't a good innings, any knock of 150+ is a cracking achievement. Give the guy a break, he was under massive pressure and came up with the goods.

 

[Ollie_H]

I just dont think Strauss is the right man for the job.

 

[vaibhav mehta]

But has Strauss captained in the past 20 innings? Errrr....Simple answer NO.

So you except that Vaughn is there because He is Captain??Right??/

 

[Sureshot]

I don't know what the problem with Strauss is either. He just played a series winning knock really. Had he failed we may have gotten the runs.

Get off his back. Jeez, I wish we had more batsmen like him in our side. I'd swap Sinclair, Bell or Elliot for him any-day.

I shouldn't be so harsh on Elliot, he just scored another domestic century. 192 or something not out in a draw. I'd say he's going on the England tour. Daniel Flynn has scored centuries in his last 2 games so he'll probably get to go too. Sadly, Hay, Todd Fulton all failed. Squad is named tomorrow I believe?

I think that says more about the standard of the typical NZ domestic bowler. Eliot reminded me very much of Anthony McGrath, bits and pieces.

 

[Ollie_H]

So you except that Vaughn is there because He is Captain??Right??/

Yeah, I have no point in denying it. I mainly think he is in the team because he is captain. RIGHT!

 

[vaibhav mehta]

Then I am up..I don't have any argue.

then I am feeling sorry for Strauss that Hes not captain..Lol..