They will add a 4th one ,I'm sure.
Btw, seems like Axar Patel is injured and Washi Sundar will be replacing him for the Final.
India Team Discussion
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Btw, seems like Axar Patel is injured and Washi Sundar will be replacing him for the Final.
Rohit Sharma gives Ashwin World Cup hope with bombshell statement on India's 'spin bowling all-rounder slot'
Rohit Sharma gave R Ashwin some hope of being included in India's World Cup squad with a bombshell statement.
Just continuing on my previous post with confirmation here
Why? The lack of an off spinning option has been quite apparent. I stick by my previous analysis that Axar and Jadeja are similar and there isn't a variety in the spin department.
Bevab
ICC Chairman
Because Ashwin even at his peak was only decent in ODIs. He hasn’t been involved in this current WC cycle at all barring those injury enforced couple of games he played two years ago and was also discarded rightfully in the last WC cycle. Going back to him would be a massive mistake, his style of play in all three departments don’t really suit ODIs especially with two new balls.
If there is a need for an off spinner I’d rather go with Sundar even if he’ll inevitably get injured.
Can't help if you've got a strong dislike of him. He adds to the balance of the side. With Jadeja not firing, Ashwin comes in handy in the batting department. You are also forgetting that we do not have any top order batsmen capable of rolling their arm over. In Indian conditions,Ashwin can be a handful.
Anyhow, I firmly feel they should replace Axar with a right hand spinner. Ash is my first choice,of not, then Washi it has to be.
Anyhow, I firmly feel they should replace Axar with a right hand spinner. Ash is my first choice,of not, then Washi it has to be.
pillowprocter
International Cricketer
All fun and games until Chawla shows up
Bevab
ICC Chairman
Not sure where you’re getting the ‘strong’ dislike part from given how many times I’ve supported his presence in the team in other formats. You’ve added nothing to counter what I said initially about him either. But hey, let me try to do justice to your post.
He’s no better than Thakur with the bat in fifty overs cricket for one. If anything he’s worse given he isn’t much of a slogger. The numbers back this up too. What value does he add down the order at eight then?
I fail to see the significance of none of the top order being able to bowl. Almost no batter in any country bowls these days, it’s the price you pay in an era of hyper-specialisation where part-timers can get absolutely pummelled. The ones who do either got backed in their team till they were decent enough (an example being Markram) with the ball without much scrutiny on their batting performances. The Indian cricket system isn’t ideal for such development at the moment because anyone who underperforms is dropped. If you want a top order that can bowl, you gotta pick batting all-rounders or pure all-rounders like Australia are planning which comes with it’s own issues.
What does Ashwin have to do with the lack of bowling from the top order either? Ashwin if he is picked would be the fourth bowler in the XI, he isn’t being picked as a Mehidy clone who will float in the batting order. Besides we have six bowling options in the preferred XI which is what most teams prefer and use for balance.
You do realise that Ashwin averages well over fifty in his last ten ODIs right? He’s also close to conceding six runs per over in that stretch. You’ve still not addressed the fact that finger spinners in ODIs aren’t particularly useful unless they have specific skills in other fields or are extremely competent in one style of bowling. Ashwin is a hybrid between a classical off spinner and a modern one, the former is mostly obsolete and the latter is what most teams prefer. None of these sound handy to me unless games are played in literal dustbowls akin to Mirpur.
Ashwin’s played a grand total of… six List A games since being dropped in 2017. His last game in this format was in January 2022. You criticise the team for not picking or preferring players in form/ones with match practice and recent experience yet you’re willing to make an exception for someone who… shouldn’t even be in the team in the first place for all of the reasons outlined above. I’ve not even talked about his ground fielding which is very likely to be more exposed in ODIs.
EDIT - just saw that Ashwin has been picked for the ODIs. Oh well, hope he does justice to his selection.
Bevab
ICC Chairman
NZ, Bangladesh and England are all playing weakened sides in their last series before the WC (and England are playing a side that didn’t even qualify). This isn’t a Dravid being unique thing.
Wait, you were critical of Bumrah missing out on one game against Nepal out of all teams because he had the temerity to attend the birth of his first child because you believed he lacked fitness (and since then you’ve only gone on about how Bumrah looks off colour) and now you’re critical of him not being rested and playing?
Seriously, are you just trolling at this point?
Bumrah remark was in jest , mate. I should start adding emojis to my jest remarks, I feel. If you are going to rest your top players after every 2nd game, escapes me how they didn't give him more rest. Hence, my comment.NZ, Bangladesh and England are all playing weakened sides in their last series before the WC (and England are playing a side that didn’t even qualify). This isn’t a Dravid being unique thing.
Wait, you were critical of Bumrah missing out on one game against Nepal out of all teams because he had the temerity to attend the birth of his first child because you believed he lacked fitness (and since then you’ve only gone on about how Bumrah looks off colour) and now you’re critical of him not being rested and playing?
Seriously, are you just trolling at this point?
On a serious note though- it doesn't make sense to rest Kohli to such a large extent. He has hardly gotten any match practice-bar that century vs Pakistan. I read somewhere that Ben Stokes has played more games since his return than Virat has ,this year.
Lastly, the naming of KLR as captain- defies all logic,(not cause I dislike him as captain) but cause of the fact that KLR has proven to be a bad option. Comes the questions- who next? You had Bumrah do these duties recently, get him to do it again. The continued preference for KLR from Dravid's end is pretty clear. A couple of heavy losses and KLR's form goes for a toss. We all know how badly he does when thrusted with the pressure of captaincy.
As for Dravid making the changes, it is apparent that there is a bit of favoritism in the side currently. The other sides you've mentioned have had their World Cup 15 play together before. They have had enough game time(with perhaps the exception of a couple of persons). England is playin Ireland, so could be less bothered in terms of who will play.
With India, the alarming frequency with which Rohit, Kohli have been rested is now borderline ridiculous. Yes, we have played series just before World Cups in the past. The point there being to ensure that the team gels together and has enough game time. In 2015 & 2019, we played the tri-series and a 5 match ODI. I do not recollect the Indian captain being rested for those games. Neither do I recollect the top players bein rested. Pundits claim this is being done to give rest, given that the players will be traversing the length and breadth of India. However, these very parameters were in place in 2019 and even 2015. Pundits also claiming that Dravid is building a team for the future- it just isn't the right time to do so. Is it likely that Rohit/ Virat are quitting cricket after the World Cup? No! Hence, we do not need these changes, at this stage.
The significance here being that these guys can snare a wicket or two. See, our bowling isn't adequate. We will always be juggling the extra batsman/ 5 bowler theory. With batsmen who can bowl, you get say a max of 20 overs among them. When we had Sehwag, Raina, Yuvraj, these guys could create additional 20-25 overs to take the pressure off. Indian management has perhaps harped on this a little late. Having Tilak in the side solely on account of the fact that he bowls is, in itself a heads up here.
Markram is the next-in line to SA captaincy. Other teams do not drop their vice-captains on pure whims and fancies, like India/Pakistan do. Australia have always gone that way. Though, Steve Smith can bowl some handy leggies. With us, I do not think that is an option. But, it would have been good to have Rohit or Virat do some bowling.
He gives you an all-rounder, with a right hand off spin option. As I've said before, Jadeja and Axar are similar and one of them has to go. Ashwin's batting, any day is better than these two.
When did Ash play his last game? A few years ago. Are we now in that scenario that we cannot pick up someone based on his performance 2 years ago? Can a player not imporve at all?
Now, your Q pertaining to finger spinners- Please explain more of Jadeja in that case. Is he not a finger spinner? His batting returns have never been up to the mark in ODIs. He is much more handy in Tests. So, why have him? Just cause he is a leftie?
Furthermore, kindly explain the difference between a classical OS and a modern OS. I honestly do not know much about this.
Experienced person he is. The ideal ploy would have been to use Bishnoi, but seeing as we haven't been going that way, the chances of him making the squad is highly unlikely.
Bevab
ICC Chairman
We haven't really been doing the juggling act since the last WC whenever we've had Hardik fit to bowl and playing. The five bowlers only theory is obsolete, any team following it is massively risking their balance for any ODI. The Indian management hasn't harped on it at all. Tilak's selection was because he is an extremely dynamic batter who can slot seamlessly into the middle order, not because he can roll his arm around which is proven by him bowling twice in eight internationals. If anything he's the perfect example of someone who isn't favoured by the Indian cricket pathway at senior levels. In twenty-five T20s for the Mumbai Indians across two seasons he's bowled... a grand total of three overs spread across three games (and all of them were because someone in the attack was extremely expensive). Even with the impact player rule last season... that's barely passable. He's bowled in less than fifty percent of games for other teams at senior level too. Why? Because his batting is far more valuable than his bowling to those teams. Neither will those teams use him primarily as an all-rounder nor will they push him to do so which also leaves Tilak not really working on it unless he's in the national camp and they specifically get him working on it because it takes time away from his batting training.
All-rounders usually take time to really hit their peak because they're working on two disciplines at the same time and in a hyper-competitive environment like the Indian cricket pathway unless you're an all-rounder being selected/viewed as one it makes little sense for someone to work on their weaker discipline until they're in a secure role. Other examples of this? Jaiswal was supposed to be the lefty who could also bowl leg-spin when he was starring in the U-19 WC. Since then he's never bowled in the IPL as far as I know and has only bowled a bit in List A cricket. Thakur was a tailender until he took the initiative to work on his batting after securing a spot in the Mumbai side and realising he couldn't just make it in the Indian side as a pure bowler to get to the level he is today. This nostalgia for players like Raina and Sehwag (who would be develop in a much different way if they were coming up today) and Yuvraj (who was a genuine batting all-rounder) is obsolete, no team plays with such a strategy of 'making up overs from the top order' these days and for good reason, the two new balls and four fielders outside the circle rules have put an end to it.
Markram was dropped multiple times from the team across formats. It wasn't on whims and fantasies either, he was genuinely shite. It was only upon the realisation that he could fill the Duminy shaped hole in the Proteas team that he was reintegrated back into the side and he was backed despite his returns with the bat in white ball cricket because they knew he wouldn't be up to the mark there for a while (and to his credit I don't think he was bad in T20Is).
Steve Smith hasn't bowled in an ODI since 2020. He's bowled a grand total of... nine overs since the 2015 World Cup. At the same World Cup he bowled... twice. He last bowled in a T20I in 2014 (which was a solitary over, take that out and it goes to 2011 when he was a completely different player). Even in test cricket where it would make sense that he would bowl some odd overs he's done that for close to only seventeen overs in total since the last ODI WC (and a lot of those overs were a solo over spell). Even in test cricket where you can get by with a team like you suggested made up of part-timers... Australia have always tried to include a proper all-rounder when possible despite having players like Head and Labuschagne who are batting all-rounders if at least for the fact that they can bowl rather than their record. Smith can't bowl handy leggies at all, if he did try to bowl you'd be lucky to get away with a six or eight run over. If you're unlucky he ends up giving away twenty-one runs like he did in the 2019 semis.
Bevab
ICC Chairman
How on earth is Ashwin's batting better than any of those two?! My brother in Christ, Ashwin's ODI average is half of Jadeja's! Even compared to Axar, he doesn't give you the same run output (20 to 16 on average and 2 fifties to 1 with half the number of innings played) and unlike Axar he has no untapped domestic batting potential that hasn't been translated to the senior level yet (30 to 17!). We've already established that he's not better than Thakur with the bat in this format and unlike Thakur he doesn't slog at all. Calling him a bowling all-rounder feels generous at this point and I have no idea why you're wildly overrating his batting.
Are you really telling me that the bloke who has just turned thirty-seven has improved significantly in the span of eighteen months in a format that he hasn't played? If we're going by his IPL numbers... he's been decent in it but hardly inspiring. I'm absolutely sure you'd be criticizing the team for picking him (justifiably so) if you didn't have the same idea too based on what you usually say.
Jadeja's batting returns have been... adequate though? The big issue with him is he has never been a slogger and while he can do that if asked to he can also be easily restricted in said role by smart bowling and field placements because his range of hitting is limited. Even beyond that, his recent returns lacking aggression do have some context that a post on r/cricket provided. Funnily enough it was at the behest of a Kiwi fan because in no way is an Indian fan is providing rational analysis on that cesspit. Let's get into some numbers though. Since the last WC he's averaging 38 when batting at anywhere between six to eight (Axar's at 37 with half of those balls faced). That's just one run less than Hardik and the same as Maxi, good company to be in. As already pointed out his strike-rate is the biggest worry since it's at 79 which is quite bad for that position. However there have been players in other sides' middle orders with a more conservative role as a batter, akin to a firefighter whose job is to be a supportive batter at the death rather than a primary slogger and someone who can arrest a collapse if it happens.
And from that perspective, Jadeja's average is significantly better than the likes of de Silva, Carey, Karunaratne, Santner who have been employed in such roles. Now coming onto the next part of the post which I did address in my original post too. I did mention that the only way they get selected is if they're really good at one style of bowling (or just good in general) - examples here include Nawaz, Mujeeb, Theekshana, Maharaj and even Sundar (who averages 24 in this WC cycle). The other requirement they would need is to be good in other parts of the game such as batting and/or fielding which Jadeja is? He wouldn't be the only one either, Moeen is picked on the same assumption (albeit he hasn't clicked in ODIs for years). So is Santner, de Silva, Macewell, Maxi. Even beyond that, Jadeja is a modern finger spinner in many aspects. He's what I'd call a darter, someone who can bowl really fast for a finger spinner and directly at the stumps whilst being pretty accurate with some bounce imparted. A classical offie would be more akin to Lyon (I still wouldn't consider him to be my ideal example as I think he's a bit modern himself but since I can't think of anyone else he'll have to make do for now) who relies on flight, deception and turn. Ashwin's definitely more of a Lyon than a Jadeja, wouldn't you agree? And the last time Lyon played in a WC, the Aussies quickly realised that while he wasn't bad, he wasn't of much use either with the ball.
I don't get how Bishnoi is the ideal replacement and how Ashwin is the next best option when Bishnoi can barely bat while you've been extolling the virtues of Ashwin's batting ability. They are also quite different bowlers, Bishnoi is going to look for wickets first and foremost while Ashwin is more defensive in his bowling with the white ball in hand.
My support to Ashwin is on the basis that we do not need 3 left arm spinners in the side- the attack is too one-dimensional. Both Axar and Jadeja are containing bowlers. With Ashwin or any other right hander you can negate the left hand batsmen to some extent. My backing would go for Ash/ Washi. If neither is available, Bishnoi is an added unknown that can be tried out. With Ashwin though, you get a stable head and some one who can bat far better and consistently than Jadeja or Axar(probably combined). I am not going to go by averages like you have, cause numbers can't justify the potential of a player. Perhaps, the team management too is thinking on similar lines and hence the chances to Ashwin in the coming games? Furthermore, you cannot discount him on Indian tracks.He is a handful- no matter the format.
