Pakistan tour of South Africa - 2018/19

[hammadahmed88]

I dont think so we should be too worried about the upcoming World Cup in England. There is still a long way to go. By that time, The side will lift up and its a dangerous side when people think its down and out.

By that time, I m hoping Imam will be out and Inzy would either be axed or would be taken to a level by pressure that he will make sensible selections.

My only concern is team unity. Under Sarfraz, Pakistan did receive that and only an internal politics and captaincy run can kill it at this time. I hope I go prove wrong and we come great in the World Cup

I think it's quite fair to say that the world cup is a ways away and Pakistan can recover, especially in limited overs cricket. And yes, they do tend to perform better at ICC events, the opposite of South Africa who seem to do really well in tours, then perform below expectations in ICC events. Maybe it just seems like that to me.

I don't think though that the unity argument is valid for Sarfaraz. He clearly has favourites. Junaid Khan's lack of an extended run, along with other players, is testament. Also, I don't think they'll go with another opener, nor do I think Inzimam is going anywhere anytime soon. I don't think they'll make any major changes before the World Cup. I would be great if they did though.

 

[Rehan_24]

Much needed victory. A very good performance by Pakistan though the selection wasnt free from blunders. Starting off with Shinwari and Faheem as mainline front bowlers and then expecting a turn around was a the goofy thought by team management.

Hasan Ali and shadab saved the day while this strategy will hugelt backfire if Sarfraz didnt induct Aamir and Shaheen Shah Afridi, those should be frontline pace attack while we hugley missing Junaid here.

Pakistan though got the advantage of SA being a developing ODI side and it was great to see Hafeez playing a match winning knock. There are too many loop holes in the batting lineup, The middle order is banking on players like Malik, Hafeez and Sarfraz, I strongly beleive we need Haris Sohail here if Sarfraz doesnt play favorites game and justify Haris Sohail place in the lineup.

Hasan Ali and Shahdab cant take wickets if the front line bowlers wont create pressure. We got to take wickets from new ball if we want to survive well in the ODI format and upcoming World Cup.

I agree inzy not gonna change his mind much though I m feeling due to pressure Junaid can get a chance in the next series, However these SA wickets were meant for him and opportunity missed...

I must appreciate Shadab here, What a fighter he has been.

On a lighter note, last comment dedicated to Dunne Oliver.

Olivier after test series:

Was I that good ?

Olivier after first ODI:

Was I that good ?

Lol

 

[CerealKiller]

We did a good job to restrict them on a pretty batting friendly pitch. Shaheen needs to be playing though, no need playing Faheem at 9. Shocking to see him excluded, he got 9 wickets at an average of 20 against NZ. Don't know why he was ignored in the 3d Test and this match too.
I'm not a fan of Hafeez, but when he's on song, he's great to watch. He needs to be consistent.

 

[CerealKiller]

On a side note, we kept our record with regards to debutants/inexperienced/unproven players performing against us (van der Dussen today, just like Olivier in the Tests).
A couple of points i forgot to mention in the previous post : Imam is progressing nicely in ODIs, needs to improve strike rotation, just like Babar. Fahim shouldn't be opening the bowling, we should have a pure pacer (Shaheen would be the best option) in his or Imad's place. Shinwari isn't very convincing on surfaces that don't have some spice in them. Missing Junaid, who according to Inzi wasn't fit enough, but is doing just fine in the BPL.

 

[hammadahmed88]

Agree with the points made here. Imam is definitely a better player in ODI's if he can keep his strike rate around at least 80. They're in fact doing him a disservice by dragging him along in Tests. Fakhar is looking all out of sorts. It might be a good idea to try Shan Masood out. Not sure exactly why he was not included today. They also need a pure batsman in the middle. None of Hafeez, Malik or Sarfaraz are pure batsmen. I won't mention a certain batsman from Karachi, the F word for Pakistani selection committees.

And I totally agree. Shaheen not playing is incredibly stupid, in keeping with selection decisions so far in the tour I suppose. Shinwari doesn't look like he is a particular threat if the ball doesn't swing. My 3 for the world cup would be Junaid/Amir, Shaheen, and Hassan. That should be the rotation until the world cup.

Just a little thing. Shaun Pollock picked up right away that it might help Shinwari to bowl from the other end as the wind would bring the ball in. Within literally his first over. This was completely lost on the captain, coaching team and bowlers themselves. There doesn't seem to be any cricketing intellect in this group. That is the invaluable quality that people like Dhoni bring. Pakistan doesn't have that as far as I can tell, I could be wrong, and hope that I am wrong, but it doesn't appear evident in this group. They just kept persisting with the 'stack the off side and bowl across the batsman' strategy. You have to take wickets in modern limited overs cricket. May be this came off as more aggressive as I intended, but that's my sense.

This won't fly in the world cup. No De Kock, Markram, Steyn, or Ngidi. Don't want to take anything away from the win, but Pakistan will do well not to pull a champions' trophy and gloss over everything just because they won. The best learn more when they win than when they lose.

 

[CerealKiller]

Just a little thing. Shaun Pollock picked up right away that it might help Shinwari to bowl from the other end as the wind would bring the ball in. Within literally his first over. This was completely lost on the captain, coaching team and bowlers themselves. There doesn't seem to be any cricketing intellect in this group. That is the invaluable quality that people like Dhoni bring. Pakistan doesn't have that as far as I can tell, I could be wrong, and hope that I am wrong, but it doesn't appear evident in this group. They just kept persisting with the 'stack the off side and bowl across the batsman' strategy. You have to take wickets in modern limited overs cricket. May be this came off as more aggressive as I intended, but that's my sense.

True, Misbah was the only true tactician we had as captain since Imran. Younis and Malik were bad at man management, but had a good cricketing brain. Hafeez is a very good captain, if only he could back it up with the bat too.

 

[Perfect Square]

Good win from Pakistan. Although I was surprised to see South Africa not charging having 8 wickets in hand. I think the problem was that all of their top 3 batsman played the anchor role and no one really pressed on.

Shaheen maybe was left out because of the conditions. The pitch has very low bounce compared to other South African stadiums. And we saw how Olivier went for plenty while Pretorius was effective.

I wonder had Hafeez started his career as middle order batsman he would've achieved much more. I want him to play at no. 5 or 6. Come when 20 - 15 overs are left. I feel he's the best option for hitter we have right now

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Yesterday was a magnificent example of why SA have looked a good limited overs side in the past. A total of 260 odd was often 300 and sometimes 350 if AB played. I think SA is one of the weakest teams in the upcoming world cup because they just don't have the bowling to bother the best teams. And I include Dale Steyn in that bracket because he has always been an over rated white ball bowler. On the other hand, I think Pakistan is a very under rated limited overs side because they have the bowling to take wickets at any stage of the game. I think they lack fire power in their batting but SA do too. Miller will win you 1 or 2 games out of 100 but other than him, no one will tear an attack apart.

 

[hammadahmed88]

Yesterday was a magnificent example of why SA have looked a good limited overs side in the past. A total of 260 odd was often 300 and sometimes 350 if AB played. I think SA is one of the weakest teams in the upcoming world cup because they just don't have the bowling to bother the best teams. And I include Dale Steyn in that bracket because he has always been an over rated white ball bowler. On the other hand, I think Pakistan is a very under rated limited overs side because they have the bowling to take wickets at any stage of the game. I think they lack fire power in their batting but SA do too. Miller will win you 1 or 2 games out of 100 but other than him, no one will tear an attack apart.

I'll have to disagree here respectfully. I do think you are somewhat correct in saying Steyn is a bit overrated in white ball cricket, but he is far from useless. He's just not as good as he is in the longer game but he's still a lethal bowler. A strike rate of 31.6 is pretty good. Also, an attack consisting of Steyn, Rabada, Ngidi and Tahir is probably one of the most rounded and complete in the world, irrespective of the fifth bowler. Their batting is also better than for what you're giving them credit I think. Yes, AB is a legend and unmatched, but that is not the only reason for their batting successes over the years. Amla is Amla. Faf I think is probably criminally underrated, probably because he's been third fiddle to AB and Amla. De Kock can be really destructive at the top in limited overs cricket, while Miller, if used in the right spot, can really hit it big (a strike rate of over 100 at an avg of almost 39 is no fluke). vd Dussen looks like a good prospect in the middle. I think they're a pretty solid team for the world cup. Any thing can happen I suppose, but on paper at least they seem a good side.

EDIT: I also think they should give an extended run here to Markram and include him in the world cup squad. He's a great player in the making definitely.

 

[hammadahmed88]

Shaheen needs to be playing though, no need playing Faheem at 9. Shocking to see him excluded, he got 9 wickets at an average of 20 against NZ. Don't know why he was ignored in the 3d Test and this match too.

Unless there is an undisclosed injury, his omission is beyond stupid, even for this management group and captain. Surely, even if he doesn't do well, this is the time to get him ready for the WC.[DOUBLEPOST=1547985253][/DOUBLEPOST]

Shaheen maybe was left out because of the conditions. The pitch has very low bounce compared to other South African stadiums. And we saw how Olivier went for plenty while Pretorius was effective.

This is probably a long shot. Shaheen doesn't seem like a one trick pony with his bounce. He can definitely swing the ball. Plus his pace is a huge asset in this group.

 

[Morphed]

Strangest of all scorecard

266/2 after 50 overs.
Looks like Amla underestimated Pakistan because these kind of scorecards are good only in 80s and 90s

 

[Perfect Square]

This is probably a long shot. Shaheen doesn't seem like a one trick pony with his bounce. He can definitely swing the ball. Plus his pace is a huge asset in this group.

His exclusion and few others in the future will happen before WC. As Micky Arthur hinted they'll try a few different combinations

 

[LiveLoveABD]

I'll have to disagree here respectfully. I do think you are somewhat correct in saying Steyn is a bit overrated in white ball cricket, but he is far from useless. He's just not as good as he is in the longer game but he's still a lethal bowler. A strike rate of 31.6 is pretty good. Also, an attack consisting of Steyn, Rabada, Ngidi and Tahir is probably one of the most rounded and complete in the world, irrespective of the fifth bowler. Their batting is also better than for what you're giving them credit I think. Yes, AB is a legend and unmatched, but that is not the only reason for their batting successes over the years. Amla is Amla. Faf I think is probably criminally underrated, probably because he's been third fiddle to AB and Amla. De Kock can be really destructive at the top in limited overs cricket, while Miller, if used in the right spot, can really hit it big (a strike rate of over 100 at an avg of almost 39 is no fluke). vd Dussen looks like a good prospect in the middle. I think they're a pretty solid team for the world cup. Any thing can happen I suppose, but on paper at least they seem a good side.

EDIT: I also think they should give an extended run here to Markram and include him in the world cup squad. He's a great player in the making definitely.

Amla is Amla. Exactly. Vastly under rated in tests and hugely over rated in limited overs. He batted through yesterday and SA lost. de Kock and du Plessis either don't have the consistency or the destructive force to be classified as elite or one of the best in limited overs. And the bowling you mentioned is all tests. Tahir has been rather average in the last couple of years.

 

[Rehan_24]

I think the personal benefit for Amla and other player of doing a century costed the momentum of their pace and when they were about to charge the bus had already left the stop. They did play bit selfish in the end for their centuries perhaps

 

[hammadahmed88]

Amla is Amla. Exactly. Vastly under rated in tests and hugely over rated in limited overs. He batted through yesterday and SA lost. de Kock and du Plessis either don't have the consistency or the destructive force to be classified as elite or one of the best in limited overs. And the bowling you mentioned is all tests. Tahir has been rather average in the last couple of years.

Cannot agree with this at all. Amla averages over 50 in ODI's, with a strike rate of close to 90. He has 27 centuries in just 167 innings. Conversion rate is also outstanding with 36 fifties. I'm not sure what on earth you're talking about with the "vastly overrated" claim. Care to elaborate? Doesn't really make any sense to me. Any team, and I mean any team, will take De Kock as their wicket keeper with their eyes closed. Not even close as a contest right now. Bairstow might be the only exception there. Du Plesis is a great captain and batsman. Once again, I'm not sure what you mean. Tahir's numbers are a bit down in the last two years but are by no means average. Still talking more wickets than innings played.