Pakistan's tour of England - August/September - 3 Tests/3 T20Is

CerealKiller

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Not that crazy, given he's fairly low paced and the balls don't do much. But they did bring in a couple of inexperienced teenagers which seemed odd.
Well, that worked in Abu Dhabi. But he wasn't at his best physically in Australia, and South Africa before that.
 

Na Maloom Afraad

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Not that crazy, given he's fairly low paced and the balls don't do much. But they did bring in a couple of inexperienced teenagers which seemed odd.
Yeah, didn't say that because of his bowling abilities. But dropping him when he was probably the most experienced in that lineup since there was no Wahab or Amir was a weird choice tbh.
 

AsadRM

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Interesting comments from Waqar Younis "We might even play 2 spinners in England in August". I assume he is hinting at Iftikhar Ahmed along with Yasir Shah. I'd have preferred a 4-1 attack rather than 3-2, only if you have a fast-bowling all-rounder as the 4th seamer.

The thing is that a 4 pacers attack doesn't really fit in the combination for Pakistan. In order to fit in the 4th pacer, they would need to drop Iftikhar and the team would become thin on batting. The biggest problem for Pakistan and the reason why Pakistan hasn't been that successful in SENA is that we don't have a proper fast-bowling all-rounder (somebody like Jason Holder or Ben Stokes). Please don't say that Faheem Ashraf is an all-rounder.

Playing 3 pacers is far from ideal but it is still the best option until and unless the 4th pacer can contribute 30-40 runs, like an all-rounder (Musa Khan and Wahab are capable but it would still be a gamble). My ideal lineup for the first test:

Shan Masood
Abid Ali
Azhar Ali
Babar Azam
Asad Shafiq
Rizwan
Iftikhar Ahmed
Yasir/ Shadab (Shadab has that batting edge but his bowling was poor in the warmups and Yasir, on the other hand, was quite decent. So a bit of a dilemma for the management here)
Muhammad Abbas
Shaheen Afridi
Naseem Shah

Shan Masood can bowl 3-5 overs of good medium pace (like he did in South Africa) so he can be used to fill in the gap between pacers' spells. Azhar and Asad Shafiq can bowl ok-ish leg-spin as well.
 

AsadRM

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One idea that popped up in my mind randomly was that can Imam-ul-Haq/Haider Ali be played at #6 instead of Iftikhar? This can obviously happen only if Misbah feels that Yasir /Shadab can bowl the required spin, without the need of a second proper spinner. This move would strengthen the batting but again Haider/Imam have never played in lower-order nor have they scored many runs in the warmup game. Haider is also possibly too young and inexperienced for a Test debut. But again this could end up being a masterstroke to strengthen batting on a seaming wicket, or a silly move. What do you guys think?
 

CerealKiller

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Please don't say that Faheem Ashraf is an all-rounder.
Ignore his LOs record and look at Tests only. He did well last time in Ireland and England.
 

AsadRM

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Ignore his LOs record and look at Tests only. He did well last time in Ireland and England.
That was 2 years ago. Hassan Ali ripped through batting lineups at that time as well. 2 years is a lot of time in sporting terms (especially in sporting setup of a country like Pakistan where instability is the norm).

He wasn't figured out back then. He scored mostly through half-volleys and good length. Today you bowl him a single bouncer at neck height and he'll present you his wicket. Also, his bowling is no longer good enough; 135 kph with no consistency in line and length. In only 2018, he was PSL's leading wicket-taker as well as one of Pakistan's leading fast-bowler (even ahead of Amir). This year he was only played in 4 or 5 games by the same team and performed poorly in those games. I do realize that sportsmen go through lean patches, but he has done nothing since the start of 2019 (barring that one PSL game against LQ).

Faheem Ashraf was just a flash in the pan and had good 8-9 months of a purple patch. He was never a longterm option. Sorry to say, but he was a glorified version of Bilawal Bhatti.
 

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Yasir/ Shadab (Shadab has that batting edge but his bowling was poor in the warmups and Yasir, on the other hand, was quite decent. So a bit of a dilemma for the management here)
I think Yasir would be a no brainer between them. Yasir has always been the superior Test match spinner, and add to that the batting capabilities he showed against Australia, Shadab doesn't stand a chance.
 

CerealKiller

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I think Yasir would be a no brainer between them. Yasir has always been the superior Test match spinner, and add to that the batting capabilities he showed against Australia, Shadab doesn't stand a chance.
I think if they are looking to play two spinners, Iftikhar fails the comparison with Shadab. He got 3 50s in Ireland/England last time, was among the leading scorers in PSL 2020, batting at 3-4-5, and is the far superior bowler. So if they go with two spinners, Shadab at 7, Yasir at 8.
 

CerealKiller

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That was 2 years ago. Hassan Ali ripped through batting lineups at that time as well. 2 years is a lot of time in sporting terms (especially in sporting setup of a country like Pakistan where instability is the norm).

He wasn't figured out back then. He scored mostly through half-volleys and good length. Today you bowl him a single bouncer at neck height and he'll present you his wicket. Also, his bowling is no longer good enough; 135 kph with no consistency in line and length. In only 2018, he was PSL's leading wicket-taker as well as one of Pakistan's leading fast-bowler (even ahead of Amir). This year he was only played in 4 or 5 games by the same team and performed poorly in those games. I do realize that sportsmen go through lean patches, but he has done nothing since the start of 2019 (barring that one PSL game against LQ).

Faheem Ashraf was just a flash in the pan and had good 8-9 months of a purple patch. He was never a longterm option. Sorry to say, but he was a glorified version of Bilawal Bhatti.
What you've said is right, statistically, but tell me, when was the last time he played a Test? A year and a half ago, in South Africa. We can’t drop players based on performances in LOs formats, when selecting a Test team. That said, I would’ve liked to see Aamir Yamin on this tour instead of the 36-year old Sohail Khan, or Imran Khan.
 

AsadRM

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What you've said is right, statistically, but tell me, when was the last time he played a Test? A year and a half ago, in South Africa. We can’t drop players based on performances in LOs formats, when selecting a Test team. That said, I would’ve liked to see Aamir Yamin on this tour instead of the 36-year old Sohail Khan, or Imran Khan.
Yeah, I agree with your point regarding when he played the last time and one shouldn't judge players in a certain form based on another. The thing is you or I can't decide for certain or make a conclusive point regarding whether he is good enough or not because we don't know what he is doing in the warmup games or nets. Sometimes, stats don't necessarily justify somebody's performance (making this point regarding Faheem's performance in warmup games).

Sometimes Misbah's policies are beyond me (even though I really liked him as a player). Why are all these tried and tested failures like Imran Khan, Sohail Khan, etc selected? Only Misbah can tell us about this. Aamir Yamin could possibly be effective as the 4th seamer and as an all-rounder. But one possible drawback could be that his and Abbas's bowling style is identical. But we can't see anything conclusive as he hasn't played yet with Abbas.

Pakistan should also look towards given Musa Khan the Sam Curran role in the English Test side. He can really be good with that role
 

AsadRM

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I think if they are looking to play two spinners, Iftikhar fails the comparison with Shadab. He got 3 50s in Ireland/England last time, was among the leading scorers in PSL 2020, batting at 3-4-5, and is the far superior bowler. So if they go with two spinners, Shadab at 7, Yasir at 8.
*Misbah wants to say hi*

I can bet my house that he'll prefer Iftikhar over Shadab. Personally, if I was in Misbah's shoes, I would have opted for Shadab too.
 

AsadRM

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I think Yasir would be a no brainer between them. Yasir has always been the superior Test match spinner, and add to that the batting capabilities he showed against Australia, Shadab doesn't stand a chance.
Yasir is obviously superior to Shadab in Test match bowling. But I don't agree with your Yasir's batting point. Sorry but that was a fluke due to missed chances and lack of high intensity from Australia. Also, there was no pressure on Yasir as Pakistan was certainly going to lose with a huge margin. He was in a nothing to lose kinda position.

Yasir has always had the potential but he never really put in the hard yards regarding his batting. Lastly, it would be a disaster trusting and expecting him to score as much as a proper batsman
 

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I think if they are looking to play two spinners, Iftikhar fails the comparison with Shadab. He got 3 50s in Ireland/England last time, was among the leading scorers in PSL 2020, batting at 3-4-5, and is the far superior bowler. So if they go with two spinners, Shadab at 7, Yasir at 8.
Yeah I followed this years PSL and was actually surprised to see Shadab batting so high. FunFact - If you search YouTube for Shadab Khan PSL highlights, all of them are about his batting exploits :p

Yasir is obviously superior to Shadab in Test match bowling. But I don't agree with your Yasir's batting point. Sorry but that was a fluke due to missed chances and lack of high intensity from Australia. Also, there was no pressure on Yasir as Pakistan was certainly going to lose with a huge margin. He was in a nothing to lose kinda position.

Yasir has always had the potential but he never really put in the hard yards regarding his batting. Lastly, it would be a disaster trusting and expecting him to score as much as a proper batsman
Yeah of course, Shadab is a much better batsman than Yasir, but still if we are gonna select from one of them, Yasir is a no brainer for me
 

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