South Africa Team Discussion

Bevab

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:lol :lol but he played six ODI's only
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and our captain never captained any side in PSL

I've just pointed out that him playing only six ODIs is far too less for someone who has markedly improved his game and deserved more chances. Let me put it this way, who else would you have chosen to lead the team in ODIs?

As for the latter, you're pointing out the incompetency in the PCB's decision to make Babar the skipper when he still isn't his PSL team's captain. Aren't there already grumblings that Rizwan might make a better captain to relieve pressure off Babar?
 

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But for what reasons Quinton De Kock is removed from captainsy.
 

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As for the latter, you're pointing out the incompetency in the PCB's decision to make Babar the skipper when he still isn't his PSL team's captain. Aren't there already grumblings that Rizwan might make a better captain to relieve pressure off Babar
but babar's performance has changed since getting captaincy.
 

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Then why hasn’t he played more LOs matches? Would’ve also helped with quota.

A combination of having a top four with Quinny, Amla, Faf and AbD in it and Bavuma's own test struggles and playing style suggesting that he wouldn't have been as good in white ball cricket to the eye. You must also remember that the South African Board has been terribly mismanaged for years.

And is Bavuma's tale really that unique? The Marsh brothers of Australia have both played too many tests when they should have played more ODIs+T20Is instead for example.
 

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Bevab

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But for what reasons Quinton De Kock is removed from captainsy.

Started off well but it was clear that he was running out of ideas (which isn't the big problem) and that it was taking a toll on him mentally (which is the problem). Quinny is South Africa's golden goose with the bat and is also a keeper and an opener. Not many players have done all three roles at the same time for an extended period.

Pretty sure this was a mutually agreed decision from both parties, I doubt CSA would have wanted to piss off their best LO batsman without asking him first.
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this is the problem they dont have more options

So why would it be a bad decision then? He clearly is the best option available and deserves a shot. The only concern is his lack of international appearances which honestly has nothing to do with him.
 

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So why would it be a bad decision then? He clearly is the best option available and deserves a shot. The only concern is his lack of international appearances which honestly has nothing to do with him.
not a bad decision i just dont want Bavuma getting under pressure because he is captaining his side in T20 and ODIs
 

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Atleast for t20s I thought Dussen was the right choice. He has done very well so far and has experience playing in different T20 leagues around the world. I would have made him the odi captain too tbh
 

Bevab

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Atleast for t20s I thought Dussen was the right choice. He has done very well so far and has experience playing in different T20 leagues around the world. I would have made him the odi captain too tbh

You do know that RvD is Bavuma's deputy domestically and another player who has entered the international scene just a couple of years ago right? Pretty sure making him the skipper when Bavuma is the more logical choice would just lead to ugly accusations and rightly so.

My main worry with Bavuma is that he can be tied down somewhat easily due to his strike rotation not being good and if he doesn't get his boundaries. To his credit, he did recognize that and worked hard to improve his aggression in the most recent T20 Challenge. Added to that, he is one of South Africa's best players of spin and with the T20WC in India that will be a good benefit. Being a real livewire in the field and a good opening partner for the team's best batsman also makes him an attractive prospect in the XI.
 

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but he played six ODI's only
Do you know George Bailey became the Aussie captain in only his first T20I? He was a great leader and the man who had been the leader behind the 2015 WC team (if not for Clarke to come back for the WC)
 

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Do you know George Bailey became the Aussie captain in only his first T20I? He was a great leader and the man who had made the 2015 WC team
I know . But South Africa cricket team is already struggling and i dont want their new captain get under pressure.
 

Bevab

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Do you know George Bailey became the Aussie captain in only his first T20I? He was a great leader and the man who had been the leader behind the 2015 WC team (if not for Clarke to come back for the WC)

Ah Gorgeous George! A true inspiration and an excellent player, would have played a lot more games if he were five years younger.
 

Bevab

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With the last FC final under this current format approaching, it is time to ponder upon the look of the Proteas future test squad and then seethe in blind frustration as Boucher and co go with the most conservative options anyways.

Faf's overdue retirement has opened up a spot for grabs and this time there are no 'experienced' heads pushing for his spot. Unless they convince QdK to give up his gloves for a spot at five and hand them to Rudi Second, which wouldn't be the worst idea in the world if there weren't two exciting talents pushing for a spot...

Kyle Verreynne's excellent double century and century in consecutive games means that he is probably the most obvious replacement choice. He's already got international experience and can potentially allow QdK to give up the gloves too. Haven't seen him keep but QdK's keeping is very good and athletic barring the odd mishap due to his basics not being excellent. Might be an issue as he grows older but by then the team will probably have a bunch of other keepers squabbling over his spot.

So back to the topic. Verreynne's averaging what, 56? It is impossible to ignore such a talented player with the numbers to back it up. Even if there are concerns over how he might bat without the gloves and even if there is a question mark over his conversion rate. It would be almost too easy to just slot him in at four instead of Faf...

....but my pick for Faf's replacement would still be Raynard van Tonder who would have made his debut versus Sri Lanka had it not been for his most untimely injury. He's been consistently near the top of the run scoring charts in FC cricket and it is criminal that he hasn't been given a game yet. He averages 49 in his own right and has a very decent conversion rate. Most importantly, he can also bat in the top four, has leadership experience and has passed the eye test to even the most casual of SA cricket observers (except the ones actually making decisions apparently).

If it were up to me, I would have them both in the XI. Who wouldn't want two players below 24 averaging either side of 50 with consistent performances in the team? This has been long overdue, just get them into the playing XI and be done with it. I would also have Keegan Petersen in the side. It's surprising that he hasn't played a single international game till date. Can convert his starts very well and is another number three whose recent numbers do him far more justice than the earlier ones. He is also a more attacking player these days in comparison to van Tonder and I believe that his ability to tackle spin must be decent considering that he plays for the Dolphins side so I would have him in at number four.

The big question is what to do with the current incumbents. Markram is the leading run-scorer this season and has been long touted as the next superstar of the SA batting lineup. Elgar is the captain and is still more than serviceable even if he isn't quite as good now as the leading act in comparison to the previous times where he was just another supporting cog (just like Faf). Rassie is the huge controversial decision, he has started his test career adequately but that is all I see him ever doing, being an adequate test batsman who can punch above his metaphorical weight sometimes. His domestic career is good but is it worth a top order spot when there are other younger talents with a lot more potential and better if not equal numbers pushing for a spot? I could see him working as the number five or six in a lineup where there is a well established top four that can do the bulk of scoring with him chipping in fifties but not as the number three or four. Funny that he is in many aspects similar to Faf who was another player that debuted late and was always a slightly limited player with elite mentality who had to grind down attacks for his scores. South Africa could do a world of good to him and play him in the LO formats that could reward him and the team more.

And then the big question mark is over the vice-captain, Temba Bavuma. He was the second best batsman in their most recent series but I've been calling for him to be dropped for a long, long time. It isn't just the obvious reason that he keeps getting picked, this team has suffered a bunch of legendary retirements that would affect most sides and leave it short of experience. At that time, the other established seniors were hardly performing themselves either and Bavuma's direct competition in de Bruyn was performing even worse. In such circumstances, Bavuma was just being kept in due to his experience and to keep a familiar face around. He also couldn't be dropped when the other players were equally bad. A catch-22 is what ensued.

It is tough to drop him too when he was one of the few who looked like they could score versus Pakistan. However, how long will his pretty and gritty 30s before getting out be appreciable though? If it were up to me, I would give him a couple of series' at number five (the position where he averages the most) so that he can bat with more established batsmen for a longer time instead of the tail (although Maharaj is very handy down the order) and tell him that he needs to buck his ideas up and convert those starts into serious runs. He has found his niche as the skipper in the LO formats. That will already be a significant workload on it's own given what he means to his entire community in addition to leading a side that fared poorly in the last ODI WC.

I would keep Quinny down at seven at the moment to allow him to regain confidence and relieve some of the pressure on himself. Let him make the playing XI as a keeper for the next couple of series.

Two players that I expected to see in the SA lineup in the near future but have disappointed this season are Hamza and Qeshile. They are still young enough to bounce back but they may find the door harder to keep open the next time they have the spotlight on them. On the other hand, Rickleton, Zondo, Breetzke and de Swardt have all been impressive in parts (with the exception of Rickleton who has been consistent) and should push for spots very soon.

As for the all-rounders, Linde and/or Mulder should probably play depending on the conditions and country with Mulder probably being close to a regular unless the side needs a spinner with more batting skill or a sixth batsman. Mulder is more of a batting all-rounder even if his initial international stats suggest otherwise. Expecting his fragile body to bowl a lot of overs would be tough and he isn't express pace either to justify short bursts of spells. Will be interesting to see his bowling workload. Linde is the type of player who makes things happen. It shouldn't matter that him and Maharaj bowl the same type of spin, there are differences in the way they bowl and they are the two best red ball spinners in the country after all.

The pacers should have the usual suspects of Rabada, Nortje and Ngidi. A fully fit and rapid Ngidi like in his debut series could easily be the second choice ahead of Nortje but the latter showed courageous discipline in his five wicket haul in Rawalpindi. It is also tough to dismiss someone who can easily crank it up to 150 if required, even if I believe that Dupavillon without injuries could have easily bettered Nortje. Stuurman should slot in as Philander's long overdue successor with Hendricks being another option and then there's Sipamla and Migael Pretorius, both of whom have good pace alongside domestic stats that show their calibre. Beyond that, the potential of IPL bound Marco Jansen and hotshot Gerald Coetzee is scary with Thando Ntini adding to the depth.

:saf: :bat: Dean Elgar
:saf: :bat: Aiden Markram

:saf: :bat: Raynard van Tonder
:saf: :bat: Keegan Petersen
:saf: :wkb: Kyle Verreynne
:saf: :ar: Wiaan Mulder
:saf: :wk: Quinton de Kock
:saf: :bwl: Keshav Maharaj
:saf: :bwl: Kagiso Rabada
:saf: :bwl: Anrich Nortje
:saf: :bwl: Lungi Ngidi


The other players I've mentioned throughout can all be capable backups with the more experienced heads probably in front of the queue. Imagine having the likes of Erwee, Malan, Rassie, Bavuma and Second on the bench to bolster the batting depth with Stuurman, Hendricks, Dupavillon, Sipamla and Pretorius for bowling depth. Muthusamy's also been terrific this season (albeit on sluggish surfaces), will be interesting to see how he gets along the next time he might get a chance.
 

Neptune

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Agree with most of your points except your view on Dussen. South Africa really arent a team to drop a good player for his age, and I rate him quite highly.
Also, i think you are rushing the new players in the side. Imo, one of verreynne or van tonder should be given a debut in place of faf and of bavuma or dussen are substandard, the other should get an oppportunity too.
I also think that it wont be the worst idea to make markram bat 3 and get someone like pieter malan back to open.
Agree with you putting de kock at 7, the stats clearly show that he bats well at that position
 

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