South Africa tour of India 2019/20

[NILAYSHAH60]

the only situation where I can see such an option being valuable is in the chase of a 210 plus total where you need every player to score at a very high rate constantly.

It is also a viable option when our top order collapses just like the WC'19 Semi-final. Also when we are batting first and looking for a bigger score we need that option. Remember we lost 2014 WT20 Final and 2016 WT20 Semi-final just because of not having a power hitter low down the order. Also recently when Australia toured India earlier this year we lost both matches of the series in the last over only because of batting not able to finish well.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

I am no fan of Kohli's captaincy, but here are the words that he used to explain their exclusion.





I don't believe that this is the end for Kuldeep and Chahal, it seems to me that Kohli is experimenting with the use of an extra bowling all-rounder rather than outright dropping them unless they perform a miracle with bat or ball. Sundar was next in line and so he got picked, this has nothing to do with his style of spin. Wouldn't surprise me if Gopal (wrist spinning all-rounder) receives a game or two in the near future.

There are plenty of T20I games before the World Cup, I would rather experiment now instead of playing musical chairs with the spinner slots during the tournament itself. Bit surprised that you do not agree with this, given that you have criticised Kohli in the past for 'meaningless bilateral series' victories' with full strength playing XIs.

I do agree with the premise of an extra bowling all-rounder being unnecessary under most circumstances, the only situation where I can see such an option being valuable is in the chase of a 210 plus total where you need every player to score at a very high rate constantly. The extra batsman or two will be invaluable in that situation to attack freely but if we were to select an extra specialist bowler who can bowl better, we might not end up conceding such a big total in the first place. Would be willing to see if the current bowling lineup stacks up well enough before passing a judgement.

I'll just tell you how I feel-

In my opinion, the biggest blunder we have made in the Kohli reign of terror among many is 'creating insecurity.' I don't care how good you are, you cannot be comfortable with this 'experimenting.' Do you remember how Pujara and Rahane were dropped from the test side? Forget that, they were batsmen. In the aftermath of the Champion's trophy, Ashwin and Jadeja were also 'resting' and not playing to try out new guys. Ashwin hasn't played since and if we had an established middle order, Jadeja would never have had a look in. I am also in agreement of the bowling all rounder, provided he plays at 7 but are we still debating between Jadeja and Krunal Pandya after Jadeja's performances in the last two years?

Every individual in the world thrives under security. We need to zero in on 18 players and give them as many games as needed. We need to repeat playing the same XI so that people warm up to their roles. People know what is expected of them and which situations they will encounter. In any conditions, 3 bowling all rounders which did play in WI is overkill. You can never truly give them equal chances in the same game. If you play one in different games, may be you can still simulate and compare!

The situation of 210 you have mentioned is few and far in between. I kept saying right through the 2019 World Cup that our obsession with extending our batting order will cost us. People say we were not many for 5 and yes, the middle order musical chairs did cost us but the game was lost because of the bowling! If the Kiwis bowled like they did in that game, it was Chahal's leakage that cost the game. There was no excuse not playing Shami and I always say that Hardik is your 6th bowler. He is not a genuine wicket taking 5th bowler. You will lose 99/100 games chasing 210 and the one game the extra batsman wins is never equal to the 200 games that extra bowler will bowl his 4 overs and get break throughs. It is short sightedness on behalf of our management.

I'll again say- Our strategy, specially in a truncated game like T20 should be 4 batters, 1 keeper bat, a batting all rounder, a bowling all rounder and 4 proper bowlers who take wickets.[DOUBLEPOST=1568711995][/DOUBLEPOST]Sorry about the bold mate. I have no idea how and why that happened.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

Rahane were dropped from the test side?

I think I have said it in the past he was dropped because of poor performance or you would say a drop in performance in the last 18 months or so. In those 18 months there were only 2 innings that he played in excess of 150 balls and was clearly having issues regarding his batting and was clearly dropped on merit. The blunder they committed over here was to play Rohit Sharma who should never have been the part of the Test squad forget about being the in playing XI. And that move of dropping Pujara was just to somehow accomodate KL Rahul and again that was because of Pujara's failures when he played in Overseas i.e from 2014 New Zealand tour to 2018 South Africa tour and also KL Rahul was looking in a very good touch in the T20I series. I know you can't rely on them if you want to be a part of the Test squad but here we are talking about the confidence that the batsman had in himself and if he can't deliver then it's a problem of an individual and not the Captain or the team management. Also Pujara clearly has a glaring issue with the defensive shot that he plays on the front foot leaving a big gap between his bat and pad so it was just there to try something different and look when it didn't work the next match Pujara was brought back in the side. And since then both have been the part of the XI in every match.

yes, the middle order musical chairs

Umm... Wasn't it started by Dhoni since the 2015 home series against South Africa ?

In the aftermath of the Champion's trophy, Ashwin and Jadeja were also 'resting' and not playing to try out new guys. Ashwin hasn't played since

I would honestly ask you, do you really think that Ashwin is still that good for the ODI format ? When was the last time Ashwin contributed in a win outside the sub-continent with his bowling apart from 2015 WC ? Never !!! So here I don't see a problem with the team not having Ashwin in the ODI format.

 

[Bevab]

@LiveLoveABD Guess I wasn't clear in my original post, I agree that a score of 210 plus isn't frequent and on most days with the extra bowler doesn't happen. Also agree with the fact that an extra bowling all-rounder isn't really necessary if he isn't any good enough with the ball to make it in anyway. I don't think Sundar is a bad option with the ball though, he can bowl in the powerplay well which is a bowling option that more teams are starting to develop these days. The batting part is just a bonus to me even if the team thinks it is an essential component now for the number eight to also bat decently. I still believe that there is nothing wrong in trying out other options when there are 26 more T20I games to go before the main tournament, there is still time to finalise our playing XI and have them consistently play during the last 10-12 games.

In the WI tour, Krunal was supposed to play the role of the batting all-rounder to me even if he ended up bowling his full quota anyways. I doubt that we would play the actual all-rounder who is supposed to be the number seven at eight unless the pitch aids spin in the actual tournament.

Agree with the terrible player interaction from the management, we've seen it with the likes of Nair, Vijay, Tiwary and Rayudu publicly in recent times. Who knows what other demons are being hidden in private conversations...

I disagree with the axing of the finger-spinners from ODIs resembling the current scenario, Jadeja did make a comeback initially as the all-rounder but later on played in the XI as the fourth bowler rather than the fifth like he did before his axing. Ashwin to me has also tried newer variations and improved as a bowler since his axing, having produced three notably good test performances in SENA countries along with an impressive IPL 2019 season despite bowling on a poor home ground for spinners alongside leading a dysfunctional franchise. Had it not been for the wrist-spinners being too good, Ashwin would have made a comeback too even if he hasn't been a good bowler in ODIs for a while now in addition to his poor fielding.

 

[Bevab]

Seeing that the first T20I was washed out and so we are currently starved of some good post-match discussion, what better thing to discuss currently than the potential XIs that each one of us would like to see in the WC next year?

My batting lineup is eerily similar to @LiveLoveABD's with just two important tweaks to the order...

• Opener #1 should be one of the best T20 batsmen in the world currently, someone who can take full advantage of the powerplay, rotate strike well in the middle overs phase and showed that he can capitalise if he can bat till the death in IPL 2019. KL Rahul is an easy selection.
  
• Opener #2 by conventional wisdom should be Rohit. However, I would like to go against the old rule of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' and play someone else here. The reason is that Rohit takes his time to get going in most games and unlike in the past, doesn't seem to have that extra gear that he can access to truly blow away teams in recent times when fully set. Part of the reason why he was so successful in the 2019 WC was due to him adapting his game to play a lot more aggressively right from the start.
  
• On the contrary, Kohli's best time as a T20 player came in IPL 2016 when he was opening and made nearly 1000 runs in a single season! Wristy players like him who like manipulating the field are best suited to open in T20s where they can easily score boundaries without any risk in the powerplay, rotate strike effortlessly later on with a boundary every 2 overs and we all know about Kohli's incredible performance at the death. Arguably the best batsman in T20s currently who is also stylistically similar to Kohli opens the batting for Pakistan and has been bloody good doing it. Kohli's issue with opening has been his inability to judge if he should be aggressive or defensive. Yet, Kohli's average and strike rate is much better when he has opened in the IPL and he has a poor strike rate of just 123 while playing at his favoured number three. Seems like his inability to be playing aggressive cricket is a lot more prominent at three rather than as an opener. He has been one of the best while playing at three for India and his average as an opener is lower in Indian colours (just seven games though), but he has a much better strike rate most importantly. It is an experiment that is certainly worth trying. Ask Kohli to be aggressive in the powerplay looking for a boundary or two every over, as in the case he loses his wicket...
  
• ....we would have Rohit coming in at three. While he has been poor in the last three IPL seasons for the lofty standards expected from him, his form in T20Is hasn't been affected by it. I believe that his current style of batting in T20s isn't ideal, but he has a role to play in my hypothetical XI as the player who makes big scores and 'anchors' the innings as much as one can in T20s surrounded by hitters (and let's be honest, the Indian obsession with big individual scores and one batsman contributing the majority of the score even at the expense of some aggression isn't going away anytime soon). Statistical evidence for this move isn't supportive though, Rohit averages a lot less at three than when he opens although he has a marginally better strike rate in the IPL. However, his only IPL century has come at three and if I had to choose between a potential 2016 version of Kohli versus the current T20I version of Rohit as the opener, Kohli wins any day of the week. Rohit also has a solitary fifty from his only game at three for India if that is of any relevance.
  
• Pant at four is an easy decision to make, he is the only pure batsman who can hit boundaries at any stage of the game without additional instructions and is very good versus spin (just watch out for those off breaks though). I doubt that he will be failing to translate his IPL record onto the international stage for too long. Iyer is the alternative but I believe Pant will lock down this position if he is backed properly.
  
• Hardik will be my number five. He is another player who can be aggressive from the first delivery and is a nightmare for spinners to deal with. At five, he gets the chance to bat against spinners more frequently than before. I don't think India have utilised Hardik the batsman as well as they should have, he has the grit and underrated skill to 'build' an innings if required following a collapse and can also switch gears effortlessly in a single over.
  
• Number six is the most vulnerable position right now, as India don't have a reliable batsman who can just walk in and score quickly at the death. The closest we have to such a player is Karthik, who has been very good in T20Is over the last two years. His poor ODI record shouldn't be held against him, he has also shown that he is a completely different player at 6 in the IPL over the last three years as a death overs specialist. The only other viable alternative is Shankar who can be easily restricted in the death overs.
  
• Jadeja should be the number seven for now due to his incredible form at the moment across all formats but given that Krunal is a T20 specialist, I wouldn't be as sure of Jadeja being the first choice when the WC comes around. If you were to ask me now, Jadeja should be first choice on any pitches offering assistance to spin and Krunal should be the optimal choice on flatter pitches.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

@LiveLoveABD Guess I wasn't clear in my original post, I agree that a score of 210 plus isn't frequent and on most days with the extra bowler doesn't happen. Also agree with the fact that an extra bowling all-rounder isn't really necessary if he isn't any good enough with the ball to make it in anyway. I don't think Sundar is a bad option with the ball though, he can bowl in the powerplay well which is a bowling option that more teams are starting to develop these days. The batting part is just a bonus to me even if the team thinks it is an essential component now for the number eight to also bat decently. I still believe that there is nothing wrong in trying out other options when there are 26 more T20I games to go before the main tournament, there is still time to finalise our playing XI and have them consistently play during the last 10-12 games.

In the WI tour, Krunal was supposed to play the role of the batting all-rounder to me even if he ended up bowling his full quota anyways. I doubt that we would play the actual all-rounder who is supposed to be the number seven at eight unless the pitch aids spin in the actual tournament.

Agree with the terrible player interaction from the management, we've seen it with the likes of Nair, Vijay, Tiwary and Rayudu publicly in recent times. Who knows what other demons are being hidden in private conversations...

I disagree with the axing of the finger-spinners from ODIs resembling the current scenario, Jadeja did make a comeback initially as the all-rounder but later on played in the XI as the fourth bowler rather than the fifth like he did before his axing. Ashwin to me has also tried newer variations and improved as a bowler since his axing, having produced three notably good test performances in SENA countries along with an impressive IPL 2019 season despite bowling on a poor home ground for spinners alongside leading a dysfunctional franchise. Had it not been for the wrist-spinners being too good, Ashwin would have made a comeback too even if he hasn't been a good bowler in ODIs for a while now in addition to his poor fielding.

Poor show in domestic Cricket adds to that.[DOUBLEPOST=1568737192][/DOUBLEPOST]Honestly I would bank everything on him to play him but only if he was as good as he was before.

 

[Yorkshireman]

Dunno if this counts as off topic but don’t really know where else to put it but who would be your world t20 xi right now?

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Dunno if this counts as off topic but don’t really know where else to put it but who would be your world t20 xi right now?

Warner
Kohli
Williamson
De Villiers
Buttler
Stokes
Russell
Rashid Khan
Cummins
Archer
Bumrah

 

[Master Bates]

Warner
Kohli
Williamson
De Villiers
Buttler
Stokes
Russell
Rashid Khan
Cummins
Archer
Bumrah

Cummins?

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Cummins?

I know people will pick Starc but I feel Cummins can do whatever Starc can but not the other way round. Finch just bowls him conservatively.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

3 spinners on Mohali pitch ?

Come on Kohli !!!!

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Has Bhuvneshwar also lost his place in the T20 side?

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

Has Bhuvneshwar also lost his place in the T20 side?

That is what I asked few days earlier on this thread itself. This is not good with the poor guy who did everything to be one of the best for India still not being valued.[DOUBLEPOST=1568814860][/DOUBLEPOST]

Sorry about the bold mate. I have no idea how and why that happened.

Select the text and press the bold button. It would be okay.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

That ugly Manjrekar called Rassie Van der Dussen as a player with wierd name. Pathetic !!!! [DOUBLEPOST=1568815016][/DOUBLEPOST]Lovely batting from De Kock !!

 

[Yorkshireman]

Anyone know how to watch the game in England ???