RIP World Cup Super League 2020-23 (World Cup Qualifier Jun 16 - Jul 9)

Bevab

Staff Member
Moderator
PlanetCricket Award Winner
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Location
India
Online Cricket Games Owned
  1. Don Bradman Cricket 14 - Steam PC
Clinical from Ireland! Pathetic from South Africa.

Appointing 'BLACK' captains and hitting transformational targets seems to be the mantra of the Proteas nowadays. Trust ,this will be the end of SA cricket, if adequate opportunities arent given to budding propects.

Ah yes, the good old argument that always comes up when the Proteas lose. It’s somehow always the fault of the quotas, every black player in the system and the ’BLACK’ Captains if they lose. Somehow Mark Boucher escapes criticism everytime they lose despite being a control freak whose captains are usually present to execute his tactical plans and despite selecting average domestic players over youngsters with potential.

Oh and they’ve appointed one, just ONE black captain. If that makes you lose your mind, I can only imagine how good your thoughts are regarding race and cricket in SA. How dare CSA appoint one of the best domestic captains currently available? Should they not know better than to appoint a ‘BLACK’ captain. Wonder where you were with these thoughts when SA won in West Indies (the defending champions and favourites according to many) against their near full strength XI in T20Is. Was Bavuma not responsible then?

The end of SA Cricket will be because of

  • Over nearly a hundred years of systemic neglect, outright racism and exclusion of a huge community and large swathes of the population that has resulted in the current player pool lacking quality. If you think cricket would continue to be sustained on the back of very few elite schools with a mostly white and minor population that keeps dwindling every year, I have a bridge to sell to you.
  • Over twenty years of absolutely ignoring recommendations for the growth of cricket in the black communities that resulted in just one Makhaya Ntini playing internationally with success. Oh and he also happened to be excluded frequently and mistreated by a clique of senior players including his own captain. In any other country, what happened to Tsolekile would be seen as grave injustice. Heck, if he were a white cricketer we would be crying over how he was a victim of the ’racist quota’ policies. Instead he is brushed aside as a simple match-fixer.
  • A lack of planning to replace an ATG XI. They aren’t the only side to suffer from this, Australia struggled by their own standards to come up with proper replacements to their 2000s side, West Indies are nowhere near where they were and Sri Lanka’s present seems to get worse day by day. And yet, five years of proper quota enforcement is supposed to be the reason for SA’s downfall? What nonsense!
 

Aislabie

Test Cricket is Best Cricket
Moderator
Ireland
PlanetCricket Award Winner
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Location
Derbyshire
Ah yes, the good old argument that always comes up when the Proteas lose. It’s somehow always the fault of the quotas, every black player in the system and the ’BLACK’ Captains if they lose. Somehow Mark Boucher escapes criticism every time they lose despite being a control freak whose captains are usually present to execute his tactical plans and despite selecting average domestic players over youngsters with potential.
I fully agree with this. Honestly, the quotas are a deeply imperfect solution but they are a solution that is needed to help fix a problem that is far bigger than the successes and failures of one cricket team. As we explored in a past draft, the history of non-white South African cricketers is an incomplete one of denied opportunities and forgotten players.

Oh and they’ve appointed one, just ONE black captain. If that makes you lose your mind, I can only imagine how good your thoughts are regarding race and cricket in SA. How dare CSA appoint one of the best domestic captains currently available? Should they not know better than to appoint a ‘BLACK’ captain. Wonder where you were with these thoughts when SA won in West Indies (the defending champions and favourites according to many) against their near full strength XI in T20Is. Was Bavuma not responsible then?
Temba Bavuma being appointed captain isn't the problem here: the fact that Temba Bavuma is The Black Captain rather than merely The Captain is the issue - he's constantly being questioned over and over and the expectations of him are simultaneously higher (from those who expect him to be some sort of cricketing Mandela) and lower (from those who think he is lesser because of the colour of his skin) and really, how can anyone be expected to perform under those conditions?

The end of SA Cricket will be because of

Over nearly a hundred years of systemic neglect, outright racism and exclusion of a huge community and large swathes of the population that has resulted in the current player pool lacking quality. If you think cricket would continue to be sustained on the back of very few elite schools with a mostly white and minor population that keeps dwindling every year, I have a bridge to sell to you.
Inarguable. See also: English private schools. It seems to be a cricket thing.

Over twenty years of absolutely ignoring recommendations for the growth of cricket in the black communities that resulted in just one Makhaya Ntini playing internationally with success. Oh and he also happened to be excluded frequently and mistreated by a clique of senior players including his own captain. In any other country, what happened to Tsolekile would be seen as grave injustice. Heck, if he were a white cricketer we would be crying over how he was a victim of the ’racist quota’ policies. Instead he is brushed aside as a simple match-fixer.
I think "match fixing" is itself often overblown. The County Championship is replete with "manufactured" results; many sports also go out of their way to create "a narrative" at the expense of the competition. In some cases, like with many local players in the Bangladesh domestic system, fixing games might be the only way to actually make some money out of playing cricket.

I'm not saying that fixing is right, just that it's not as wrong as people like to make out. Just as sports are rarely as important as people like to make out.

A lack of planning to replace an ATG XI. They aren’t the only side to suffer from this, Australia struggled by their own standards to come up with proper replacements to their 2000s side, West Indies are nowhere near where they were and Sri Lanka’s present seems to get worse day by day. And yet, five years of proper quota enforcement is supposed to be the reason for SA’s downfall? What nonsense!
Oh yeah, this is pretty normal. Sri Lanka couldn't exactly just magic up a new Jayasuriya, Sangakkara, Mahela, Samaraweera, Prasanna, Vaas, Murali and Herath out of thin air either.
 

NILAYSHAH60

Dreamcatcher
Sportsbookie
Fantasy Cricket Team
India
NZ....
PlanetCricket Award Winner
The Boys
Joined
Aug 4, 2012
Location
Thane, India
Profile Flag
India
That is some high quality discussion there. Each of the point made so much sense!!!!

I for one probably wasn't even aware about the most of the issues that South Africa has. I only heard people saying that the quota systems are possibly responsible in such a way that they are selecting players despite not having potential just to fulfill that quota requirement and it probably lead to a formation of similar opinion on my part. Only today I've realised how important that change is. Hats off to you guys for showing courage to speak on that sensitive topic. @Bevab @Aislabie

Also I really doubt if the South Africa team actually have leaders present in their side. We have a David Miller who ran away from IPL following an off-field controversy(citation needed, don't remember exactly but something like that really happened?), then we have De Kock who himself doesn't want to perform that role. I don't know about any instance where Rassie has taken that role. Phelulkwayo, Rabada, etc would honestly be a wild choice. Irrespective of the quota system I don't really find Bavuma to be a genuinely good Captain from what I have seen of him at the International arena and neither I have followed South Africa's domestic Cricket to comment on that. To me at best he seems to me a bit above average LOI player. But it should rather talk more about the situation South Africa Cricket is at present than about Bavuma's leadership.
 

icyman

ICC Chairman
India
The Boys
Joined
May 17, 2004
Location
Hong Kong
Profile Flag
India
Oh and they’ve appointed one, just ONE black captain. If that makes you lose your mind, I can only imagine how good your thoughts are regarding race and cricket in SA
I don't lose my mind over the appointment. just that the appointment came when Temba hasn't been in the best of form. Aiden Markram would have been a better option to lead SA. Regarding race, I am fairly open to all communities. I just hate the fact that Blacks create a special case for themselves (all through the world). While unrelated, the #TakeaKnee 'protests' should never have been intensified by cricketers. Just goes to show that many people belonging to this community tend to play the victim card often.

when SA won in West Indies (the defending champions and favourites according to many) against their near full strength XI in T20Is. Was Bavuma not responsible then?
What was his contribution? In terms of runs? In terms of form? Does he fit into your XI on a regular basis? I think not.

I fully agree with this. Honestly, the quotas are a deeply imperfect solution but they are a solution that is needed to help fix a problem that is far bigger than the successes and failures of one cricket team
The fact that you rely on 'quotas' means there's a problem with your country. If you keep inserting players of color, you are never going to field the best XI that is there. I have no problems if your best XI is 'All Black'. However, the mere fact that you need to highlight this time and again, is screwing up with your cricket.
 

Bevab

Staff Member
Moderator
PlanetCricket Award Winner
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Location
India
Online Cricket Games Owned
  1. Don Bradman Cricket 14 - Steam PC
I don't lose my mind over the appointment. just that the appointment came when Temba hasn't been in the best of form. Aiden Markram would have been a better option to lead SA. Regarding race, I am fairly open to all communities. I just hate the fact that Blacks create a special case for themselves (all through the world). While unrelated, the #TakeaKnee 'protests' should never have been intensified by cricketers. Just goes to show that many people belonging to this community tend to play the victim card often.


What was his contribution? In terms of runs? In terms of form? Does he fit into your XI on a regular basis? I think not.


The fact that you rely on 'quotas' means there's a problem with your country. If you keep inserting players of color, you are never going to field the best XI that is there. I have no problems if your best XI is 'All Black'. However, the mere fact that you need to highlight this time and again, is screwing up with your cricket.

The same Aiden Markram who was in international wilderness with fitness struggles both physical and mental who returned to the white ball XI under Temba Bavuma’s leadership? That bloke? Unreal that you think he was a better option than Bavuma. Based on what exactly? That U-19 WC win? Markram was a surprise pick for the T20Is when there were others ahead of him in the first place based on potential. Somehow his lack of both domestic and international experience is no issue for you, but Bavuma’s lack of just international experience is? Also, Markram after 30 matches averages 26 with just two fifties in ODIs. If it was Bavuma with that kind of record, I know you would be first among many to cry quotas. At least it isn’t as ridiculous as handing it to Bavuma’s domestic deputy on the basis of him being more skilled.

Also Bavuma was the second highest run-scorer in the domestic T20 tournament but sure keep running the narrative that he wasn’t in the best of form. Finch, Pollard, Morgan are not the best players in their XIs but yet lead their respective sides. Almost as if being the most talented player doesn’t mean you automatically become the best captaincy candidate too. Leadership is far more intricate and at the very least, Bavuma has a proven track record of being a good dressing room leader in addition to his domestic successes.

Bavuma did have a poor WI series. And so did Miller and Pooran. How about chucking them out too, since it seems that one series is supposed to be the judge of a player henceforth?

Slightly off-topic but maybe the Blacks wouldn’t create a special case for themselves if they weren’t subjected to slavery for centuries with pathetic living conditions that still persist today in the form of segregated communities and well documented racial bias? Calling the people who fight for racial justice as playing the victim card is unbelievable. And why should cricketers not intensify the protests? Holding faced racial abuse himself, so did Ebony. How dare you trivialize their experiences and trauma to playing the victim card just because you don’t find it a big deal as an outsider? They should be also be the ones leading the fight and their experiences not mattering just because they happen to be famous cricketers is absolute horsecrap.

Heck, Ngidi’s BLM stand brought racist replies from a bunch of 90s Proteas cricketers and one from Dippenaar himself, a bloke who would have been called a quota pick if he weren’t white himself given that he averaged 30 in nearly 40 games in one of the most batting friendly eras. The same Ngidi’s stand has led to SJN hearings currently investigating racial discrimination in SA Cricket in modern times with multiple submissions already. You would know all of this if you actually bothered to expand your horizons and views instead of remaining in a closet with prejudiced views about most members of a racial group and country.

Also

The fact that you rely on 'quotas' means there's a problem with your country.

This is prime r/selfawarewolves material.
 

CerealKiller

Staff Member
Moderator
Fantasy Cricket Team
PAK...
Kings XI
Islamabad
PlanetCricket Award Winner
Avengers
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Location
Germany
Profile Flag
Pakistan
I just hate the fact that Blacks create a special case for themselves (all through the world). While unrelated, the #TakeaKnee 'protests' should never have been intensified by cricketers. Just goes to show that many people belonging to this community tend to play the victim card often.
Taking a knee is just a symbol of standing against all kinds of racism and discrimination. Astonishing how a small gesture of a few seconds triggers some so much.
How is it "playing the victim card"? People of colour are victims of racism today as well. I've seen it with my eyes, and I’ve experienced it on my skin. I was a victim of it, and so were plenty of others. When we take a knee, we symbolically stand against all of that discrimination, not just "play the victim card".
 

CerealKiller

Staff Member
Moderator
Fantasy Cricket Team
PAK...
Kings XI
Islamabad
PlanetCricket Award Winner
Avengers
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Location
Germany
Profile Flag
Pakistan
I just hate the fact that Blacks create a special case for themselves (all through the world).
Just 30 years ago, Black people were considered inferior human beings under South African law, solely based on their skin. The end of legal discrimination throughout the world didn’t flip the switch and instantly end discrimination by individuals. Attitudes don’t change in a second, or even a decade. It takes a very long time.
 

Aislabie

Test Cricket is Best Cricket
Moderator
Ireland
PlanetCricket Award Winner
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Location
Derbyshire
Based on what exactly?
I mean, we all know exactly what he was basing it on.

Just goes to show that many people belonging to this community tend to play the victim card often.
Mere moments after you've ranted about "the quotas" taking away places in the side from "the best" players.

People of colour are victims of racism today as well. I've seen it with my eyes, and I’ve experienced it on my skin. I was a victim of it, and so were plenty of others.
I am fortunate enough not to have had this experience, but have certainly been in dressing rooms and on cricket fields where racist and other abuse has occurred - and over what, a kid's game played by adults?. One of several reasons why I've not played for a couple of years.

I could say more, but there's no reason to. Others have already said it plenty eloquently enough.
 

Aislabie

Test Cricket is Best Cricket
Moderator
Ireland
PlanetCricket Award Winner
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Location
Derbyshire
While that is undeniably hilarious, if the ball had been collected by the keeper and was dead then I don't think he should have been given out. He wasn't attempting a shot, he wasn't attempting a run, and the ball was (presumably) no longer in play.
 

wasteyouryouth

Verified
Admin
Moderator
PlanetCricket Award Winner
Joined
Apr 12, 2014
Location
The Forbidden Zone
Bye Bye Super League! A concept that never truly took off nor ever will!

A concept massively effected by the pandemic, isn't even finished and is completely lopsided (3 teams have played 15 matches, 3 teams have played 3). If it ends up being incredibly exciting towards the end the ICC will look stupid. Although I suspect this is pressure from certain boards who aren't happy that they can't keep playing each other every six months if they have to go to the Netherlands or Zimbabwe.

What if Netherlands actually qualified and finished in the top 8? Is it a case of thanks, but no thanks, you're relegated anyway. Now go back to playing in the rest of the associates.
 

CerealKiller

Staff Member
Moderator
Fantasy Cricket Team
PAK...
Kings XI
Islamabad
PlanetCricket Award Winner
Avengers
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Location
Germany
Profile Flag
Pakistan
Bye Bye Super League! A concept that never truly took off nor ever will!

It didn’t "take off" because of the pandemic. It was a fantastic concept. If you wanna qualify for the World Cup, earn it by playing (almost) everyone.
Now we’ll enjoy a India/Australia/England ODI series every few months.
 

wasteyouryouth

Verified
Admin
Moderator
PlanetCricket Award Winner
Joined
Apr 12, 2014
Location
The Forbidden Zone
It didn’t "take off" because of the pandemic. It was a fantastic concept. If you wanna qualify for the World Cup, earn it by playing (almost) everyone.
Now we’ll enjoy a India/Australia/England ODI series every few months.
I'd honestly have no problem just letting all full members automatically qualify if they had 6 to 8 places for qualifiers.

Even regional qualifiers would be good. E.g. England, Ireland, Scotland, Netherlands in a four-team tournament. The winner goes to the WC, the runner up goes into a play-off with other teams from around the world.
 

CerealKiller

Staff Member
Moderator
Fantasy Cricket Team
PAK...
Kings XI
Islamabad
PlanetCricket Award Winner
Avengers
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Location
Germany
Profile Flag
Pakistan
I'd honestly have no problem just letting all full members automatically qualify if they had 6 to 8 places for qualifiers.

Even regional qualifiers would be good. E.g. England, Ireland, Scotland, Netherlands in a four-team tournament. The winner goes to the WC, the runner up goes into a play-off with other teams from around the world.
Exactly, just about anything better would do instead of meaningless bilateral series.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top