India's Tour Of Sri Lanka- August 2015

[War]

@grkrama @aditya123 Uhh ha I'm not sure what all the commotion is about. Every AUS/ENG fan has acknowledged (or most of us) the current Ashes series wasn't great from a competitive standpoint. But I don't know how much Ashes series you have seen, but no way could it be considered the worse by any stretch considering between 89-2005 for eg, Australia generally pummeled England in every test series & the Ashes series in the mind of Aussies lost much significance as battles with S Africa and India became more riveting.

Of course we all are also well aware of the trend of international cricket where teams are doing very well at home (expect WI, SRI, BANG) and poor overseas. I don't know what makes you think AUS failures overseas are considered "all-right" - its a noted long standing problem dating back since to end days of Ponting's captaincy.

However when I would still consider AUS/ENG best XI far more stable than what IND have, IND are trying Stuart Binny as all-rounder who somehow managed to last the SRI test series who looked worse than some of crap bits a pieces all-rounders England tried in the 90s, when he toured ENG in 2011. AUS & ENG have the two best upcoming all-rounders in the world game in Stokes/Marsh to properly build their team around the much wanted 5-bowler attack strategy.

India are still trying to with Ishant Sharma are proven failure as bowler vs the top teams which is no comparison to the pace reserves AUS/ENG have. So while if AUS/ENG tour IND 2moro, they are very likely to loose based on recent evidence, they have a better options in their team that could probably win in IND, than IND would if they tour AUS/ENG now - that much is obvious.

 

[grkrama]

@grkrama @aditya123 Uhh ha I'm not sure what all the commotion is about.

more stable teams like a ENG/AUS/SA/NZ would easily expose.

yours is a subjective opinion at best, there is no commotion as such you see we have too much else to discuss, but if you are going to put in your views in a forum, you are going to get opinions of it, no point complaining about it!

I found it incredibly funny that a team that needs cloudy weather , green seaming pitch, standing on the crutch of one batsman in form is considered stable. Eng is an incredibly lucky team that often crosses path with other teams when they are in old age transition plus various misfortune in the form of loosing spearheads to injuries etc, like 2012 IND and current AUS.

Coming to AUS yes they have one of the best pace battery in the world but their batting is found wanting against both spin and swing, hardly anything that can be called stable.


Also regarding Ashes apart from 2005 edition everthing-else on either side is way too one sided for anybody's liking, now as a team fan who hadn't tasted victory in millennium decade i can understand why eng fans have a liking for the past few ashes, but its always boring bar a few individual performances (subjective personal opinion ofcourse), This edition was the rock bottom interms of cricketing contest though. Heck 2013 eng home ashes was better...now that is setting the bar too low.

India are still trying to with Ishant Sharma are proven failure as bowler vs the top teams which is no comparison to the pace reserves AUS/ENG have. So while if AUS/ENG tour IND 2moro, they are very likely to loose based on recent evidence, they have a better options in their team that could probably win in IND, than IND would if they tour AUS/ENG now - that much is obvious.

India in SC is going to rely on spin, India never had pacers as spearheads, apart from say kapil, srinath or zak. they always play a support role to spinners in SC.

Still yadav, aaron bhuvi, are coming through and for all your take on Ishant he is still very young and is an investment if got right can be there for many years.
FWIW He still single handedly bounced out the whole england team in their home ground in a couple of sessions.

so by default ashwin is the spearhead and is one of the best spinners in the world. We have a healthy competition for batting slots, with more openers than england can ever dream off, A problem of plenty in middle order.

Binny is there cause Rogger binny his father is there in selection panel, still he did decently fwiw. We have some talented allroudners coming though, rishi dhawan who is in early 20s is pretty exceptional with far better stats and performances than binny and one to watch out for, etc.


Honestly i don't think ENG or AUS would last 3-4 days if they tour india now, are you imagining brody andy,finny to take wkts in Subcontinent you do remember all the wkts they took in that 2012 were aged batsman phasing out? MJ was pummeled the last time he played here, somehow i doubt staarc will do any better.

Anyway im sure we can all agree SA is the much superior team compared to current AUS and ENG, so we will know how India stands when they tour.


Atleast IND-SL series had a great contest of bat n ball for the 3 matches they played that was more than watchable than a couple of other stable teams had !

 

[Aalay]

MS Dhoni, Virat Kohli likely to play for India A against Bangladesh A - Latest Cricket News, Articles & Videos at CricketCountry.com

 

[War]

yours is a subjective opinion at best, there is no commotion as such you see we have too much else to discuss, but if you are going to put in your views in a forum, you are going to get opinions of it, no point complaining about it!

I found it incredibly funny that a team that needs cloudy weather , green seaming pitch, standing on the crutch of one batsman in form is considered stable. Eng is an incredibly lucky team that often crosses path with other teams when they are in old age transition plus various misfortune in the form of loosing spearheads to injuries etc, like 2012 IND and current AUS.

Coming to AUS yes they have one of the best pace battery in the world but their batting is found wanting against both spin and swing, hardly anything that can be called stable.


Also regarding Ashes apart from 2005 edition everthing-else on either side is way too one sided for anybody's liking, now as a team fan who hadn't tasted victory in millennium decade i can understand why eng fans have a liking for the past few ashes, but its always boring bar a few individual performances (subjective personal opinion ofcourse), This edition was the rock bottom interms of cricketing contest though. Heck 2013 eng home ashes was better...now that is setting the bar too low.

But i'm not complaining - the commotion is how my simple post caused you and the other poster such a long response. I don't think I said anything remotely out of the box.

Its all hindsight talk to say IND 2012 & AUS Ashes 2015 was old age teams that ENG beat. I very much recall on this forum before England won in India 2012 I was one of the few people who said from the start that ENG would win, but many India fans on this forum and general media said the old team had the "experience factor" to handle England & that did not occur.

Nobody before this Ashes series thought AUS would loose either considering their test form in last two years. Although AUS have not won in ENG since 2001, they played swing the worse in the 3 on this tour that in 05, 09, 13.

Of course that doesn't change fact ENG have a lot to prove away from home and the PAK & SA tours are big tests for them.

India in SC is going to rely on spin, India never had pacers as spearheads, apart from say kapil, srinath or zak. they always play a support role to spinners in SC.

Still yadav, aaron bhuvi, are coming through and for all your take on Ishant he is still very young and is an investment if got right can be there for many years.
FWIW He still single handedly bounced out the whole england team in their home ground in a couple of sessions.

so by default ashwin is the spearhead and is one of the best spinners in the world. We have a healthy competition for batting slots, with more openers than england can ever dream off, A problem of plenty in middle order.

Binny is there cause Rogger binny his father is there in selection panel, still he did decently fwiw. We have some talented allroudners coming though, rishi dhawan who is in early 20s is pretty exceptional with far better stats and performances than binny and one to watch out for, etc.


Honestly i don't think ENG or AUS would last 3-4 days if they tour india now, are you imagining brody andy,finny to take wkts in Subcontinent you do remember all the wkts they took in that 2012 were aged batsman phasing out? MJ was pummeled the last time he played here, somehow i doubt staarc will do any better.

Anyway im sure we can all agree SA is the much superior team compared to current AUS and ENG, so we will know how India stands when they tour.


Atleast IND-SL series had a great contest of bat n ball for the 3 matches they played that was more than watchable than a couple of other stable teams had !

Sharma is not good, he is like Mohammad Sami was to Pakistan, why yall selectors keep picking him and not play Yadav, Aaron, Sami more is always a joke. Yea he had his spells where he bowled well, but that means little overall in the context of his failed career.

I have seen Dhawan play IPL, I think its a big stretch to say he is not a test quality all-rounder on the same level of Stokes, Marsh, Anderson. However he could probably be useful in limited overs.

Is it a consensus by Indian fans that he test-all rounder material?

Who is these many openers than India have along with players the providing "problem of plenty" in the middle-order?

ENG & AUS could definitely collapse in a head to spin on any SC tour right now, but as I said they have more better resources that if they play a good game they could win a test or series more likely that India would in AUS/ENG currently.


SRI outside the drama filled West Indies are the worst of the top 8 teams now, the fact that they even beat India in a test was a surprise - IND always should have won series, the fact that they contest was so strong is IMO a sign that the overseas problems IND showed in their recent non SC tours are still around - along with talk that people are saying modern IND batsmen don't play spin as dominantly as the Tendy era players.

I'd wager if IND had to play PAK in UAE they would have similar problems to what ENG/AUS have had their in recent years.

 

[grkrama]

But i'm not complaining - the commotion is how my simple post caused you and the other poster such a long response. I don't think I said anything remotely out of the box.

Again Forum, you give opinion you get opinion that's not commotion but forum, You will get reply even if it is a blank post! So basically your coming to a forum and dont want replies? you might as well type in a notepad and save it.
If you want short replies Twitter is a great option.

I have seen Dhawan play IPL, he is not a test quality all-rounder on the same level of Stokes, Marsh, Anderson. However he could probably be useful in limited overs.

He is totally different in FC, just like how murali vijay was is totally different in IPL and tests. He is no kapil but he will complement the indian bowling attack better than the options we are using now.

Sharma is not good, he is like Mohammad Sami was to Pakistan, why yall selectors keep picking him and not play Yadav, Aaron, Sami more is always a joke. Yea he had his spells where he bowled well, but that means little overall in the context of his failed career.

yet the joke is he bounced out england in a session. They have to live with that if he turns out to be like you say.

Aaron as yet lacks accuracy largely.

Its all hindsight talk to say IND 2012 & AUS Ashes 2015 was old age teams that ENG beat. I very much recall on this forum before England won in India 2012 I was one of the few people who said from the start that ENG would win, but many India fans & this forum and general media said the old team had the "experience factor" to handle England & that did not occur.

Ofcourse it is hindsight talk, though i would say many were on it despite media, we had lost RD, LAX, Sachin was fading, what was not expected was gambhir and sehwag losing their form terminally) but that doesn't change the facts, I would lay the blame on the management of both the teams, im not taking credit away from england, they have won fair and square , Im saying but they did luck out on both occasion of hitting the teams right when their parts are coming off.

Who is these many openers than India have along with players the providing "problem of plenty" in the middle-order?

Comparatively to the long list of ENG openers with Undroppable cooky, we have Vijay an allweather opener, with dhawan and KL Rahul much more stable than the roulette england play, who is next after lyth ?

Middle order lets see

Rahane - has scored a century everywhere

Kohli - same with exception of ENG, would a rate him same as smith and root.

Pujara his average speaks for itself, he ofcourse had problems in ENG but is improving fast,

That's a solid three, with nair, mukhund, tiwary, baba(a 20 year old off spinning all rounder ) in the reserves and im not including old FC guys like dinesh karthick, badrinath etc.
If one of the solid three fails one of these three can easily replace, though talented rohit will try again to fulfill his potential first.

compare that to Bell, root, bairstow, bell is past his best cant understand how nobody is noticing that, Root and kohli cancel each other, bairstow looked good in this tour still has to prove a lot nowhere accomplished like rahanae at this time.

same with aus, smith is holding it, they have lost bucky and clarke, voges is ok at best.
I do like the look of burns though.

I'd wager if IND had to play PAK in UAE

Not happening political reasons, hypothetically it will always be a brawl to death , No ind pak match will go without heavy contest. history speaks for itself.



---------------------------------

India lost the first test due to a collapse that can happen to any team also herath in SL is no slouch on turners, other than that we were pretty much there through out. Did someone forget SL won in ENG last year.

Nobody is denying there are problems with this Indian team there is still quite a way to go to get ready for overseas test.


The point im basically making in these 'Long' posts is humbly imho calling aus or eng as more stable teams even comparatively to India is complete BS.

Only SA have earned that right of now and only NZ are earning that right to share the space with SA though they still have to look at a quality spin option.

 

[PokerAce]

I know I am jumping in here, but as I understand the point was about stability and India said be one of the more unstable sides.

I think that is an unfair statement, in the sense that there is little about India that makes it 'more' unstable than England or Australia.

SA and NZ have a settled outlook, I don't dispute that, but India in regard to Eng and Aus are about one the same level, if not a slightly better one. First of this generation has had its batpism by fire. most of the players in the side have had their grooming on 4 tough away overseas tours. Never mind, groom them into the side slowly. They were thrown into the mix and played 5 back to back away series. I can't remember any side having done so. The likes of Vijay, Rahane, Kohli have stood up and been counted. Yes Kohli was poor in England but he had a 100 and a 96 in SA, 4 100s in Aus, the guy can play tests no doubt.

Lets look at England, they can't find an opener, have no stability in the middle order apart from Root and even with him can't decide where he should bat. They can't make up their mind about Moenn Ali. I mean how can a case be made for them being more settled than India.

Australia I would say are even worse off. Is there anyone in that Ashes side who is not retiring :P

Rogers is gone, Watson is gone, Voges has probably played his last test, Harris is gone too. Not to mention Clarke. Then apart from this they can't make up their minds between which of the two Marshes to play.

I am not saying India are comepletely settled, they are not. India have stuff to figure out about their line - up. However to say that India are more unsettled than Eng and Aus, I think its overreaching.

 

[Markkkkk]

Kohli is not as good as Root and Smith and after the recent Ashes series its safe to say everyone knew Bell was past his best...

 

[grkrama]

Kohli is not as good as Root and Smith

Root hasnt handled anything in pacy pitches like AUS as was evident in last ashes let him prove something there, smith and kohli almost match each other in strength and weakness with elegance going to kohli, they both have to prove something in Swinging cloudy conditions.

 

[PokerAce]

Kohli is not as good as Root and Smith and after the recent Ashes series its safe to say everyone knew Bell was past his best...

Too soon to judge. When was the last time a touring batsman scored 4 100s on a tour to Australia?

Yes Virat had a torrid tour to Eng, but he has performed everywhere else.

 

[War]

Again Forum, you give opinion you get opinion that's not commotion but forum, You will get reply even if it is a blank post! So basically your coming to a forum and dont want replies? you might as well type in a notepad and save it.
If you want short replies Twitter is a great option.

Ha again I believe you misrepresenting me. I am very well aware of how posting on a chat forum works my friend, so you feeling the need to explain that and reinforce that point with exclamations marks et all is highly odd.

All I'm saying is I was surprised the post cause such a "long" rebuttal - its not for me to tell a poster how to respond to a post

He is totally different in FC, just like how murali vijay was is totally different in IPL and tests. He is no kapil but he will complement the indian bowling attack better than the options we are using now.

Well we will have to see if that becomes the case if your selectors pick him in tests

yet the joke is he bounced out england in a session. They have to live with that if he turns out to be like you say.

Aaron as yet lacks accuracy largely.

Uh whats your point, Agit Agarkar, Jermaine Lawson, Upul Chandana had great individual bowling performances in tests vs AUS during glory days also - that didn't change fact that they were crap test bowlers. Are you somehow suggesting that Ishant has improved and Indian fans would be happy to see him leading the pace attack in a series vs AUS/ENG/SA/NZ?

Ofcourse it is hindsight talk, though i would say many were on it despite media, we had lost RD, LAX, Sachin was fading, what was not expected was gambhir and sehwag losing their form terminally) but that doesn't change the facts, I would lay the blame on the management of both the teams, im not taking credit away from england, they have won fair and square , Im saying but they did luck out on both occasion of hitting the teams right when their parts are coming off.

Yea fair enough

Comparatively to the long list of ENG openers with Undroppable cooky, we have Vijay an allweather opener, with dhawan and KL Rahul much more stable than the roulette england play, who is next after lyth ?

Bit of stretch to say Dhawan and KL Rahul are "stable" - especially Dhawan, he definitely looked vulnerable to pretty much all the time overseas in IND overseas tours to AUS/ENG/NZ/SA since 2013. Raul in some ways too early to say what he will become.

ENG didn't have to playing roulette with openers most people may not have picked Lyth and Robson. Nick Compton should have never been dropped he suffered same faith of vindictiveness that Pietersen was suffering under the Flower regime but on a small scale. He has a strong chance of being recalled & well their is much hope in Alex Hales long term.

Middle order lets see

Rahane - has scored a century everywhere

Kohli - same with exception of ENG, would a rate him same as smith and root.

Pujara his average speaks for itself, he ofcourse had problems in ENG but is improving fast,

That's a solid three, with nair, mukhund, tiwary, baba(a 20 year old off spinning all rounder ) in the reserves and im not including old FC guys like dinesh karthick, badrinath etc.
If one of the solid three fails one of these three can easily replace, though talented rohit will try again to fulfill his potential first.

compare that to Bell, root, bairstow, bell is past his best cant understand how nobody is noticing that, Root and kohli cancel each other, bairstow looked good in this tour still has to prove a lot nowhere accomplished like rahanae at this time.

same with aus, smith is holding it, they have lost bucky and clarke, voges is ok at best.
I do like the look of burns though.

Well yes everyone knows how good Kohli/Pujara/Rahane are but i'm not sure how you are saying those in back-up are "causing those 3 plenty of problems". Surely its the opposite and you should say those 3 are basically immovable unless some other players start banging down door to remove them - because I can't see that back-up as quality/secure back-up lets say IND play a test match and 2 of them are absent.

A better example of that was glory days AUS when Waugh/Bros and Ponting had Lehmann, Siddons, Elliot, Cox, Martyn, Hussey, Hodge, Love etc etc had real competition keeping them on their toes.


I do and i believe most ENG fans accept Bell is past his best. If it is that ENG will be going forward in the top 3 with younger players like Root, Bairstow, Taylor - Pietersen would be the better veteran to have in middle order, but for well know callous reasons that won't happen.

Not happening political reasons, hypothetically it will always be a brawl to death , No ind pak match will go without heavy contest. history speaks for itself.

Yes I know, just making the point as a hypothetical scenario

India lost the first test due to a collapse that can happen to any team also herath in SL is no slouch on turners, other than that we were pretty much there through out. Did someone forget SL won in ENG last year.

Nobody is denying there are problems with this Indian team there is still quite a way to go to get ready for overseas test.


The point im basically making in these 'Long' posts is humbly imho calling aus or eng as more stable teams even comparatively to India is complete BS.

Only SA have earned that right of now and only NZ are earning that right to share the space with SA though they still have to look at a quality spin option.

How could it be BS. All IND have over AUS/ENG is a better 3-5 with Pujara/Kohli/Rahane this is not news. AUS & ENG have better all-rounders, fast bowlers. AUS have the best all-rounder opener in Warner, while it could argued that Vijay is in better form than Cook recently I see better overall opener options for AUS/ENG than what IND have.

That's why i said before while AUS/ENG could easily go to IND lose a test series, they can put together a team right now that is far more likely to possible win a test/series in IND right now that IND could to win in AUS/ENG - because IND that have the bowling balance to take 20 wickets or enough batsman to score runs in AUS/ENG conditions.

 

[grkrama]

Ha again I believe you misrepresenting me. I am very well aware of how posting on a chat forum works my friend, so you feeling the need to explain that and reinforce that point with exclamations marks et all is highly odd.

All I'm saying is I was surprised the post cause such a "long" rebuttal - its not for me to tell a poster how to respond to a post

hmmm doesn't look like it though friend still lamenting huh for getting replies....may be you should Hashtag [HASHTAG]#idontwantlongreplies[/HASHTAG] or [HASHTAG]#DontSurpriseMEWithReplies[/HASHTAG] etc.

Bit of stretch to say Dhawan and KL Rahul are "stable" - especially Dhawan, he definitely looked vulnerable to pretty much all the time overseas in IND overseas tours to AUS/ENG/NZ/SA since 2013. Raul in some ways too early to say what he will become.

Key being Stable than England, aus just lost bucky so they have to search a replacement. Dhawan's technique is vulnerable but he did show resilience to tough it out in NZ. So he will be a opener who will be very good in SC and resilient overseas i would take that.

Hales im not really sure he llooks really vulnerable against anything fast coming into him. may be its just form, but both during that SL odis and now aus odis's he hasnt looked great.

Compton is old now and im not sure he will get a look in from strauss.I actually would say carberry was a better choice of opener, he just had the misfortune of debut

opening in that disaster ashes tour, still he looked good than most ENG have tried since.

Well yes everyone knows how good Kohli/Pujara/Rahane are but i'm not sure how you are saying those in back-up are "causing those 3 plenty of problems". Surely its the opposite and you should say those 3 are basically immovable unless some other players start banging down door to remove them - because I can't see that back-up as quality/secure back-up lets say IND play a test match and 2 of them are absent.

Its a strong bench, i meant mostly rohit and to a less extent pujara having competition than rahanae or kohli.

AUS & ENG have better all-rounders, fast bowlers.

Just like you want IND allrounder to bowl pace and better fast bowlers to compete in AUs and ENG, likewise Aus and ENG need spinning allrounders and spinners to compete here not the otherway round, this goes back to your prejudice that pace is the only form of bowling. Do you really think Aus and ENG pace bowlers are going to be threatening here, scatter gun MJ will get blasted around.

AUS have the best all-rounder opener in Warner,

Nope he does poorly in IND, ENG WI. His average is bloated by his scores in SA and AUS were the ball comes on to the bat faster.

Cook recently I see better overall opener options for AUS/ENG than what IND have.

In your assumptions, Who opens with cook, he himself cant put together decent scores most of the time for the past two years.

That's why i said before while AUS/ENG could easily go to IND lose a test series, they can put together a team right now that is far more likely to possible win a test/series in IND right now that IND could to win in AUS/ENG - because IND that have the bowling balance to take 20 wickets or enough batsman to score runs in AUS/ENG conditions.

In all honesty its just your ashes tinted spectacles i guess. Anyway its your opinion to hold on to and trying to pass it on as fact is just laughable mate.


All the three teams cant put a team out to compete in alien conditions to them that's a fact established by the recent encounters!

That's it from me im done on the topic !

 

[PokerAce]

Wow this tour forum is still getting posts

I get the point here, and I am surprised its causing any debate at all from War.

India more or less have the team. They have a core group of say 18 players and we know they are going to be the ones who will play most of the tests for India, at least the next 10 - 15 tests. That is to say the squad is ready, who makes the final XI is another thing. Like for most overseas tours Vijay and Rahul are likely to be the openers, and so on.

Eng and Aus have not yet got a squad ready. For instance everytime they have to get an opener who was not in the previous squad. There are issues on Bell they can't resolve. They can't decide where Joe Root should bat. Ballance is another guy they invested in but who is out now. Bairstow is in, but you know there are question marks. Butler has lost all form with the bat. They can't make up their minds about Moenn Ali. Not to say that Cook has not been in the greatest of form for the past year or two. Very on and off to say the least.

I am again not saying India dont have issues to decide. Like Rohit over Pujara and so on. Rahane not having a settled batting order was a one off, he will be back at #5. But I think India now have figured out who makes the cut and who doesn't.

Australia have had a whole host of retirements and those who remain, barring perhaps, Starc, Smith, Warner and Lyon, all have huge questions to answer. Its hardly the most settled outfit in world cricket today.

More or less by and large are subjective so I won't go into that, but its hard for anyone to make a clearcut case here for India being definitely more unsettled than Eng or Aus. All three are unsettled to some degree, yes.

Oh and on the Ishant issue, I have never been a fan of his, but I have to admit the SL tour for him was his finest tour so far as an India player. Ishant was definitely one of those who was key to India winning in SL. No doubt abt it.

 

[War]

hmmm doesn't look like it though friend still lamenting huh for getting replies....may be you should Hashtag [HASHTAG]#idontwantlongreplies[/HASHTAG] or [HASHTAG]#DontSurpriseMEWithReplies[/HASHTAG] etc.

Ha this is one of the strangest portions of posts I've encountered in a while. Look how long we have gone back and forth on this post and somehow in your brain you are suggesting and interpreting I have a problem with long replies, am surprised at replies or is lamenting at getting replies.

You have done a wonderful job of confusing yourself.

Key being Stable than England, aus just lost bucky so they have to search a replacement. Dhawan's technique is vulnerable but he did show resilience to tough it out in NZ. So he will be a opener who will be very good in SC and resilient overseas i would take that.

Losing Rogers is a big deal but I'm comfortable with Burns or young Bancroft can settle and become a long term opening test partner with Warner. The issue I would have is if S Marsh is chosen.

Regarding Dhawan his larger pool of work on tours to NZ/AUS/SA/ENG shows he is average test opener - his test career is showing very similar signs that its likely to follow the path which occurred to Gambhir, Jaffer, Ramesh, Das, Ghandi, Bangar, Chopra, Mukund - in being another IND opener who after being exposed vs quality pace overseas/technique wise just faded way. Although he might still be able to build a useful ODI career like Yuvraj, Jadeja, Robin Singh, Kaif for eg did

Hales im not really sure he llooks really vulnerable against anything fast coming into him. may be its just form, but both during that SL odis and now aus odis's he hasnt looked great.

Compton is old now and im not sure he will get a look in from strauss.I actually would say carberry was a better choice of opener, he just had the misfortune of debut

opening in that disaster ashes tour, still he looked good than most ENG have tried since.

Now that ENG have picked Hales for UAE tour, All I'll say regarding Hales is i'd be shocked if he doesn't have success in all formats of the game long term similar to Warner for AUS. Worst case scenario is he could get exposed a bit in tests and become a ODI specialist like Morgan or Bevan.

Compton would have been a fine selection recall as well, for reasons mentioned before he never should have been dropped and the ENG would not have been portraying this revolving door of changing openers since Strauss retired.

Its a strong bench, i meant mostly rohit and to a less extent pujara having competition than rahanae or kohli.

Referencing my cricket friends in UK here which are largely IND fans, the feeling they give me (and my observation as well) is more that Rohit is frustrating by not translating his ODI form to tests and he is under pressure - while IND selectors were oddly ignoring Pujara as a test batsman just like what they were doing with Ashwin in tests a few years ago.

However although I not seen Baba, but how is Mukund who looked like another lost IND opener overseas in 2011 "strong bench"? Are you saying he is 100% more improved player since then?

Nair ok fair enough averages 50 in IND FC cricket, but of course he isn't the first IND batsman to have triple hundreds from IND FC cricket then look totally below par in tests. But I'd say he didn't look poor player the few times i saw him in IPL.

Interesting you mentioned Badrinath & Karthik. Impression again I get from UK IND fans is that Badrinath @ 35 now, time had gone given he wasn't selected in tests when the BIG 4 was retiring. While similarly with Karthik with IND not choosing him as keeper option now that Dhoni retired - Saha & N Ojha being preferred.

Just like you want IND allrounder to bowl pace and better fast bowlers to compete in AUs and ENG, likewise Aus and ENG need spinning allrounders and spinners to compete here not the otherway round, this goes back to your prejudice that pace is the only form of bowling. Do you really think Aus and ENG pace bowlers are going to be threatening here, scatter gun MJ will get blasted around.

Its not that I want IND all-rounder to bowl pace, its obvious IND like any international team needs one because of the balance it gives every captain with 5 bowlers. No test team in world right now has a strong enough base 4 man attack currently to take 20 wickets consistently in all conditions.

Also no team that has won in IND since IND became a force at home in the early 70s so some degree has done so with "spin bowling all-rounder" in XI. It was done by pace check WIndies 76, 83, SA 2000, AUS 04, ENG 74, 86, 2012. That is not prejudice towards pace, its a historical fact.

Pace bowlers who can reverse swing the ball & ENG & AUS quicks can do that. You look at ENG selected squad to UAE and they certainly have a much better balanced team to win compared to the team that lost 3-0 in early 2012.

Nope he does poorly in IND, ENG WI. His average is bloated by his scores in SA and AUS were the ball comes on to the bat faster.

Ha this is not 1985, in 2015 poor record in WI for whatever reason is not a black spot on any players record. Ive seen all Warner's 5 test in WI, he got a lot of stars and just didn't carry on, - very good example of stats not telling you half the truth.

An average of 37 in UK is poor? Ok ha

Overall if we picking a world test XI, Warner would be the first opener chosen, do you disagree with that?

In all honesty its just your ashes tinted spectacles i guess. Anyway its your opinion to hold on to and trying to pass it on as fact is just laughable mate.


All the three teams cant put a team out to compete in alien conditions to them that's a fact established by the recent encounters!

That's it from me im done on the topic !

At which point of this debate did I every try to suggest what is obviously my opinion of hypothetical scenario's as fact of the likely outcomes?

Of course neither ENG/AUS/IND as the trend is in international cricket have done poorly in overseas conditions not similar to what they experience at home - all I'm saying is look at how all three teams have developed since their most recent tours in conditions where they struggle and I believe the "on paper" team evidence (which is all fans can use to judge teams before they actually play a match) suggests AUS/ENG are more likely to be able to put together a team right now that could counter their S Continent demons than IND can their in AUS/ENG/SA/NZ issues.

If you thinks that's its the opposite that fine, I just don't believe you would right whenever the teams are put to tests again.

 

[grkrama]

Ha this is one of the strangest portions of posts I've encountered in a while. Look how long we have gone back and forth on this post and somehow in your brain you are somehow suggesting and interpreting I have a problem with long replies, am surprised at replies or is lamenting at getting replies.

You have done a wonderful job of confusing yourself.

Now you are contradicting yourself Lord War...

I'm not sure what all the commotion is about

my simple post caused you and the other poster such a long response

.....maybe just maybe would you consider that its you who is confused ?

Regarding Dhawan his larger pool of work on tours to NZ/AUS/SA/ENG shows he is average test opener - his test career is showing very similar signs that its likely to follow the path which occurred to Gambhir, Jaffer, Ramesh, Das, Ghandi, Bangar, Chopra, Mukund - in being another IND opener who after being exposed vs quality pace overseas/technique wise just faded way. Although he might still be able to build a useful ODI career like Yuvraj, Jadeja, Robin Singh, Kaif for eg did

Gambhir did well for his 50 tests i would parallel him with trott. He didnt do well in Aus and EGN but everywhere else he did remarkably well.

Mukund has certainly improved..and would be worth a proper go at some stage.

Now that ENG have picked Hales for UAE tour, All I'll say regarding Hales is i'd be shocked if he doesn't have success in all formats of the game long term similar to Warner for AUS. Worst case scenario is he could get exposed a bit in tests and become a ODI specialist like Morgan or Bevan.

hmmm somehow a tested dhawan is worse than not able to score even in ODI's Hales.

Overall if we picking a world test XI, Warner would be the first opener chosen, do you disagree with that?

If we go by stats it would be warner would get in, but mainly because every other team other than IN and Aus are shuffling with openers. Personally i would go with Vijay and Latham/warner.
Warner somehow i always see as a guy who can crush an opponent when you are on top with a quickfire innings than someone who can guide an innings at top or counterattack out of trouble, plus not good in slow pitches.

It was done by pace check WIndies 76, 83, SA 2000, AUS 04, ENG 74, 86, 2012

WI and AUS had the best bowlers of all time in those squads, it didnt matter were they bowled they won becasue of that. Honestly are you comparing aww shocks boy Stokes to MCgrath waren n gillespie ?

ENG 2012 again IND was in peril for starters next, it was swann and panesar that won and not Jimmy boy or broad all their wkts were mostly non batsman or walking wkts.

And ENG 2012 would be closer example to present ENG though weaker without swann or monty and a out of sorts cook.

You look at ENG selected squad to UAE and they certainly have a much better balanced team to win compared to the team that lost 3-0 in early 2012.

lets see.

I believe the "on paper" team evidence (which is all fans can use to judge teams before they actually play a match) suggests AUS/ENG are more likely to be able to put together a team right now that could counter their S Continent demons than IND can their in AUS/ENG/SA/NZ issues.

Hmm indian drew 2 tests in aus while eng got whitewashed...and won 1 in eng compared to 2 aus won. I would say they are more or less the same.


Anyway ya..lets just disagree and move on!