The Situation In America

I don't live, or have lived, in the US, but I consider myself a political junkie, so I'll add my two cents. I struggle to express my feelings concretely into words, so bear with me, please.




The problem with the Democrat/Republican thing, even if I nominally agree with your points about deep polarisation and lack of dialogue, is that the political spectrum of the USA is deeply to the right, when compared to Europe. Republicans are mostly corporate religious neoconservatives, Democrats are neoliberal economically, and socially liberal. There is no social democrat, let alone a socialist like Corbyn. Bernie Sanders is the only major player who you could call a social democrat (he calls himself a "democratic socialist", but his policies are social democratic). So a "middle ground" politician in the USA would be comparable to someone who is centre-right economically, like Angela Merkel or David Cameron, and with social policies that are adopted only by the most socially conservative wings of mainstream centre-right parties in Europe. That makes the Republican Party an extremely rightwing one. They are funded by billionaires (David Koch, Sheldon Adelson, etc.), who expect them to protect the interests of the rich. They have built a dark money network, and used the Senate's undemocratic make-up to install right-wing ideologues (from the Federalist Society group) on the Supreme Court and lower courts, who have struck down laws limiting billionaires from spending excessive amounts of money in elections (Citizens United v FEC), and struck down protections from voter suppression for minority populations (Shelby County v Holder). To achieve their goals of eliminating regulations on corporations, and cutting taxes for the wealthy, the Republicans ruthlessly rely on undemocratic means, voter suppression (prevalent in the South), demonisation of immigrants and deification of the military, along the occasional middle class tax cut (the 2017 tax bill cut taxes for the middle class temporarily, before raising them to above pre-2017 levels by 2024, while corporate tax cuts were permanent).
So when you call for "civil discourse" and reaching a "middle ground", that means negotiating with an undemocratic party controlled by the richest, to maybe reach a compromise that is well to the right of the political centre. And because more and more Democrats are realising this, they have started fighting as ruthlessly as the Republicans. But they will never reach the level of the Republicans, because, fundamentally, the Republican Party wants less federal government, ideally none at all (barring the military budget, because they also want to please their military-industrial complex overlords, but that's a story for another day), so they don't care if their tactics destroy public trust in the government, while Democrats believe in using government as a force for good, so they are careful to abuse its powers.
About so-called "cancel culture", to address Loco's jibe about "regressive left", I generally agree that ostracising someone because of their views is not good, unless those views are naturally repulsive. However, collectively organising boycotts and calling for someone to be fired is free speech. Right-wingers are happy to shout "free speech" and "1st amendment", but they don't like the taste of their own medicine.

And do you really think Trump will make it easier for you? His chief immigration adviser, Stephen Miller, openly wants to ban all immigration. He just doesn't have the chance to do so, thankfully.
Eliminating excessive regulations and taxes for small businesses is good. My dad is a business owner, I know the struggle. However, it must be offset by higher taxes on multibillionaires and big corporations, to prevent the quality and funding of public services from dropping, along with worker protection through higher minimum wage, and workers having a seat on the board of directors (without workers, no company can function, so a seat at the table where all the major decisions are made is only logical).

Great post. Couple of things I'd add.

In general the 'people' of America aren't really well-represented by the political parties. The Republicans and Democrats pretty much represent business interests. While, there is a big majority that would want something like 'sensible' gun laws but it's pitched as being a 50/50 divide. Likewise, there is majority support for universal healthcare but it's presented as evil socialism.

This plays out largely in the senate where each state has equal representation. Where California with a population of 40m gets the same number of senators as Wyoming with a population of 600,000. Consequence of keeping smaller states happy two-hundred years ago leads to a huge imbalance. And you can't forget that Clinton won 3 million more votes that Trump. Democrats, I think, have won the popular vote in 6 out of the last 7 Presidential elections but only won 4. On top of this the US has a real problem with voter supression and gerrymandering of electoral zones.

When you look at the polls for the upcoming elections there is a chance for a real sea change with the Democrats potentially holding the Presidency, Congress and Senate. However, Trump and I think the Republicans will go to whatever lengths it takes to prevent this. The next six months of US politics could really shape what happens globally not just domestically. Trump admires rulers like Putin and Xi because they don't have to answer to anyone. The businessman Trump plays in here, it's nothing to do with his ability to run a business, but that he's in charge and what he says goes.
 
And do you really think Trump will make it easier for you? His chief immigration adviser, Stephen Miller, openly wants to ban all immigration. He just doesn't have the chance to do so, thankfully.
Eliminating excessive regulations and taxes for small businesses is good. My dad is a business owner, I know the struggle. However, it must be offset by higher taxes on multibillionaires and big corporations, to prevent the quality and funding of public services from dropping, along with worker protection through higher minimum wage, and workers having a seat on the board of directors (without workers, no company can function, so a seat at the table where all the major decisions are made is only logical).

Imagine when you went to college to get your admission, you scored the highest score in your school, you had good grades, your SAT 1600/1600, everything was perfect, now just imagine you not getting admission in any colleges despite being best in studies and doing everything that colleges wanted in terms of admission requirement. You go to a friends house who you know is a junkie, studied nothing, had the lowest possible score in SAT's, he just enjoyed his life and did not study at all. HE does not even want to study or have any future goals (its normal and people can be like that, do not mean in offensive way) but he got admission in all the universities because his father was a big shot! How would you feel?

Immigration in USA is on the same track. I do not support Trump nor am I fan of his policies but I support him on illegal immigration. People cannot come to any country be it be USA or any other country in world illegally and get to do everything while immigrants who come in legally, do everything correct in terms of steps taken to become a citizen and still are tweaked the most. I know Indian and Chinese population is way too much and because of that have stronger immigrants but waiting to be a PR for 151 years after completing your Masters is a joke whereas people who come in Illegally get more benefits in Sanctuary cities and states. There are people who change their name every 2 years. They use social security of dead people, they tweaking get to vote which means exercise their right, do not pay taxes and have mansions whereas legal immigrants pay taxes yet do not get unemployment as well.

Immigration in USA is flawed and must be in other countries as well but some immigration policies and strictness under Trump has kept illegals on toes. These are the people who hate Trump's immigration policy.
 
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Immigration in USA is on the same track. I do not support Trump nor am I fan of his policies but I support him on illegal immigration. People cannot come to any country be it be USA or any other country in world illegally and get to do everything while immigrants who come in legally, do everything correct in terms of steps taken to become a citizen and still are tweaked the most. I know Indian and Chinese population is way too much and because of that have stronger immigrants but waiting to be a PR for 151 years after completing your Masters is a joke whereas people who come in Illegally get more benefits in Sanctuary cities and states. There are people who change their name every 2 years. They use social security of dead people, they tweaking get to vote which means exercise their right, do not pay taxes and have mansions whereas legal immigrants pay taxes yet do not get unemployment as well.

Immigration in USA is flawed and must be in other countries as well but some immigration policies and strictness under Trump has kept illegals on toes. These are the people who hate Trump's immigration policy.
I completely agree with you on illegal immigration. The hoops my family went through to immigrate to Europe are astonishing, honestly. But there is a proper, law-abiding and humane way to deal with this problem. Tagging everyone as a drug dealing, murdering, raping "bad hombre" is not gonna do the trick. Give more funding to immigration courts, allow genuine asylum seekers relief, deport those with invalid claims. In the long-term, invest more in Central American countries to prevent people from fleeing.
And about sanctuary cities etc. I don’t know your mindset, obviously, but I'm afraid you’re scapegoating migrants, tbh. Yes, there are criminals coming through, but there are also victims of gang violence, including the families that were separated at the border. I understand it’s frustrating as a legal immigrant, i've been through it, but we shouldn’t take it out on innocent people :)
On legal immigration, John Oliver did a great piece a while back
 
This plays out largely in the senate where each state has equal representation. Where California with a population of 40m gets the same number of senators as Wyoming with a population of 600,000. Consequence of keeping smaller states happy two-hundred years ago leads to a huge imbalance. And you can't forget that Clinton won 3 million more votes that Trump. Democrats, I think, have won the popular vote in 6 out of the last 7 Presidential elections but only won 4. On top of this the US has a real problem with voter supression and gerrymandering of electoral zones.
This. The system is literally rigged against people from bigger states, which tend to be more left-leaning than smaller ones.
 
I completely agree with you on illegal immigration. The hoops my family went through to immigrate to Europe are astonishing, honestly. But there is a proper, law-abiding and humane way to deal with this problem. Tagging everyone as a drug dealing, murdering, raping "bad hombre" is not gonna do the trick. Give more funding to immigration courts, allow genuine asylum seekers relief, deport those with invalid claims. In the long-term, invest more in Central American countries to prevent people from fleeing.
And about sanctuary cities etc. I don’t know your mindset, obviously, but I'm afraid you’re scapegoating migrants, tbh. Yes, there are criminals coming through, but there are also victims of gang violence, including the families that were separated at the border. I understand it’s frustrating as a legal immigrant, i've been through it, but we shouldn’t take it out on innocent people :)
On legal immigration, John Oliver did a great piece a while back
Btw, in 2013, after Obama won re-election, the Senate passed an immigration bill to give a pathway to citizenship to all undocumented immigrants (except criminals), in exchange for 50 billion (twice the cost of Trump’s wall) for border security. It was blocked by conservative Republicans in the House.
 
I completely agree with you on illegal immigration. The hoops my family went through to immigrate to Europe are astonishing, honestly. But there is a proper, law-abiding and humane way to deal with this problem. Tagging everyone as a drug dealing, murdering, raping "bad hombre" is not gonna do the trick. Give more funding to immigration courts, allow genuine asylum seekers relief, deport those with invalid claims. In the long-term, invest more in Central American countries to prevent people from fleeing.
And about sanctuary cities etc. I don’t know your mindset, obviously, but I'm afraid you’re scapegoating migrants, tbh. Yes, there are criminals coming through, but there are also victims of gang violence, including the families that were separated at the border. I understand it’s frustrating as a legal immigrant, i've been through it, but we shouldn’t take it out on innocent people :)
On legal immigration, John Oliver did a great piece a while back
I am not talking anything about asylum seekers, they do have reasons and for that matter of fact I do support DACA, those children who came in unlawfully should not suffer because of any decisions taken by their parents. I have been in US for 9 years and I finally got my work permit this year, I did my bachelors here, did my masters here was on OPT which is Optional Practical Training renewed my visa twice and finally got it. I know a certain individual who came in here to a fake university, his university was caught by Homeland security, he went to Mexico, came back in on a new name new identity. He married a citizen here and rest is history. We need stricter laws and immigration policies on these kind of things!

BLM was such a nice movement gathering so much positive steam, then came rioters who gave Trump an excuse to unless his actual white privileged mentality. He wanted one reason to pounce on BLM activists. Who is to say that Trump might not be involved in starting these riots or helping them in order to eventually take control and send National Guards?
 
I know a certain individual who came in here to a fake university, his university was caught by Homeland security, he went to Mexico, came back in on a new name new identity. He married a citizen here and rest is history. We need stricter laws and immigration policies on these kind of things!
100% agree.
 
I agree with you. Let them air their nonsense openly, so it gets completely rejected. However I think it’s easy to classify hate speech. Attacking someone because of their race, ethnicity, nationality, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, political affiliation or religion. By attacking I don’t mean criticising. I mean calling for legal discrimination or violence (Republicans should be killed, Muslims shouldn’t vote). That shouldn’t be allowed, imo.
I don’t think the people you refer to want anything enshrined in law. Or if they do, that’s a small bubble of extreme leftists on Twitter, mostly.
Take the JK Rowling controversy. I don’t think Daniel Radcliffe or anyone else wanted her to be legally punished or jailed. They simply stated their disagreement with her statement. If their statement of disagreement brings non-legal consequences, then that’s just a by-product of free speech, just like anyone saying that vaccines are harmful to children, or Bill Gates will install microchips in everyone who gets vaccinated against COVID-19.
You yourself have the sense of mind to make a distinction between criticism, bigotry and even general social commentary but not everybody does. I'll give you some of the very many examples of possible misconstruals in this regard:
  • Not acknowledging that a gender pay gap exists as a result of a tyrannical patriarchy is often conflated with sexism.
  • Prioritising equality of opportunity over imposing quotas for the number of men and women who enter a specific professional field invites accusations of sexism.
  • Criticism of religions that detail specific punishments in their scriptures for homosexuals and for people who leave their faith is widely considered to be an act of discrimination and racism even though religions are not even races or Islamophobia in the case of Islam.
  • Refusal to accept 'white guilt' is often considered to be in direct opposition to the BLM movement.
  • Scepticism as to whether children should be encouraged to decide their sexuality and gender identity at a very young age is often met with accusations of homophobia and transphobia.
Sexism, discrimination, racism, homophobia and transphobia are all considered to be forms of hate and yet they are freely invoked when it comes to certain social issues where just by bringing them up let alone trying to tackle them you immediately invite these accusations.
Most people are only willing to look at these matters superficially without deconstructing why they exist in the first place and the ensuing confusion gives the opportunity for virtue-signalling politicians to strengthen their public image by taking advantage of the backlash and using a certain groups definition of hate speech in order to pander to the most prevalent consensus or to use these issues as a front to drive forward some other agenda under the radar.
So the matter of defining what constitutes as hateful speech is not as simple as you might think as not everybody is going to agree with your definition, it's much simpler not to try and do it at all.
 
Hello, not an American but living here in States for 9 years now. Here is my observation

People here are very gullible. I have friends and co-workers who are die hard Trump Supporters and others who are exactly opposite who hate him like anything. One good thing is that these friends and co-workers get along but thats not the case all around the States.
The situation is no different in most of India. Expect, they add religion and nationalism to this as well to make it more complex.
 
  • Not acknowledging that a gender pay gap exists as a result of a tyrannical patriarchy is often conflated with sexism.
  • Prioritising equality of opportunity over imposing quotas for the number of men and women who enter a specific professional field invites accusations of sexism.
  • Criticism of religions that detail specific punishments in their scriptures for homosexuals and for people who leave their faith is widely considered to be an act of discrimination and racism even though religions are not even races or Islamophobia in the case of Islam.
  • Refusal to accept 'white guilt' is often considered to be in direct opposition to the BLM movement.
  • Scepticism as to whether children should be encouraged to decide their sexuality and gender identity at a very young age is often met with accusations of homophobia and transphobia.
I agree with everything completely, apart from the first point. If women are paid less for the same job, what is the reason, if not sexism? But, I guess we are derailing the thread. I'd be happy to continue discussing this elsewhere.
 
I agree with everything completely, apart from the first point. If women are paid less for the same job, what is the reason, if not sexism? But, I guess we are derailing the thread. I'd be happy to continue discussing this elsewhere.
To put it simply, a woman is not paid less for the same job that a man does in the west. That is illegal and has been for some time. As for other reasons as to why a gender pay gap might exist I can PM you some of those if you wish.
 
To put it simply, a woman is not paid less for the same job that a man does in the west. That is illegal and has been for some time. As for other reasons as to why a gender pay gap might exist I can PM you some of those if you wish.
Sure, I'm always happy to learn new points of view :thumbs
 

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