Top 100 in ODI history - 2: Tendulkar, 1: Richards

[sifter132]

Afridi's numbers are kinda in between Jaysuriya and the specialist spinners he might be comparable to. Difference is economy rate really, he's just a little looser:
Afridi: average 33.37, econ 4.60, S/R 43.4
Jayasuriya: average 36.75, econ 4.78, S/R 46.0

Kumble: average 30.89, econ 4.30, S/R 43.0
Vettori: average 31.48, econ 4.12, S/R 45.7


Thanks for the lists RPHKR and Aalay

And I've got a few more names that I've overlooked (lotta Kiwis for some reason...). If you want them in the top 100, say so! Or they may be eliminated...
Chris Cairns
Neil Fairbrother
Chris Harris
Lance Cairns
Nathan Astle
Simon O'Donnell
Abdul Razzaq
Courtney Walsh
Heath Streak
Brendon McCullum

I'll compilate the final top 100 tomorrow night, and then start revealing them - hurrah!

 

[Gaurav_7]

Abdul Razzaq, surely. Very capable player.

 

[sifter132]

OK very close now (finally, they all say...)

Last chance to tell me who should be in the top 100. Here's #91-100 as it stands:
Shane Watson
Jonty Rhodes
Courtney Walsh
Andy Flower
Brad Hogg
Nick Knight
Shakib Al Hasan
Shoaib Akhtar
Gavin Larsen
Ian Botham

And #101-110, who are just missing out:
Lasith Malinga
Chris Cairns
Graham Gooch
Allan Border
Shiv Chanderpaul
Ramnaresh Sarwan
Neil Fairbrother
Javagal Srinath
Chris Harris
Lance Cairns

So it's the last night to lobby for the guy you think deserves to be seen.

 

[puddleduck]

Seems harsh that Chris Cairns, Harris and Malinga aren't in there, but I guess this is a top 100, so they're probably going to be borderline. Chris especially was a fine ODI all-rounder. Still, there have been better

 

[sifter132]

Top 100 is locked in...you'll find the 100 names in the first post. Here are some notables that JUST missed the cut:
Australia: David Boon, Geoff Lawson, Darren Lehmann, Simon O'Donnell, Paul Reiffel
England: Stuart Broad, Neil Fairbrother, Graham Gooch, Graeme Hick
India: Ajay Jadeja, Zaheer Khan, Javagal Srinath
Kenya: Steve Tikolo
New Zealand: Nathan Astle, Chris Cairns, Lance Cairns, Chris Harris, Brendon McCullum, Kyle Mills, Jacob Oram
Pakistan: Saeed Ajmal, Umar Gul
South Africa: Mark Boucher, Craig Matthews, Morne Morkel
Sri Lanka: Mahela Jayawardene, Farveez Maharoof, Lasith Malinga
West Indies: Shiv Chanderpaul, Ramnaresh Sarwan
Zimbabwe: Heath Streak

The big names that people may not like being left out are Chris Cairns, Chris Harris, Jayawardene and Malinga. Would have been nice I guess to squeeze them in, but I think they all have a weakness with their case of some sort. As puddleduck says...seems a bit harsh, but someone has to miss out. I'm sure many of you will think these guys deserve a spot in the 100 instead of player X, but...TOUGH
eg. Malinga has been a fine death bowler, but his current value is a bit inflated by his T20 prowess, not so much by consistent ODI success (I realise injuries haven't helped him). Yeah, I know he has a lot of wickets...
Chris Harris was very handy, but I don't think handy makes a top 100. Did some wonderful things though occasionally and was a great fielder.
Chris Cairns was one of the most talented guys I'm seen, but I think he was a better Test cricketer to be honest and just didn't deliver enough for my liking in ODIs.
And Jayawardene has been a very solid pro, but I don't think he's ever been considered one of the worlds best ODI batsmen at any stage of his career. Always good, but not great I feel.

Now I've poked a hole in each of them ...they would be my #101-104.

Stay tuned...and keep posting your lists too

 

[Owzat]

So poncy Rhodes makes it with a batting average of 35.12 while Fairbrother misses out with an average of 39.47 I'm sure that must be on some minor fraction of a stat or fielding reputation which would be unjust as Fairbrother not only was as good a fielder as Rhodes, he also played a number of fantastic innings - 16 fifties, maybe only half what Rhodes made but in 1/3 of the innings.............

 

[sifter132]

^^So I take it you'd like to cast a vote for Fairbrother?? He can still make it in, this is a living top 100 - there just hasn't been a rush of Fairbrother votes as of yet.

As for Fairbrother vs Rhodes: yes Fairbrother has an average 4 higher, but Jonty has a strike rate 8 higher. Jonty has slightly lower proportion of nots outs (so average not quite as inflated). Jonty was a valued member of one of the best teams of the 90s, Fairbrother was dropped a couple of times (unluckily yes...) from a lesser England team. Jonty would also probably be most people's choice as the better fielder They're pretty comparable though really - not really fair to pick on Jonty. There are guys with worse stats in there...

And good news for Chris Cairns fans...I made an error. It's Ian Botham who's missed out, not Chris Cairns. Sorry Beefy.

 

[puddleduck]

I realise his success was in test cricket, but seems crazy that a bowler with 383 test wickets and an incredible match changing 180 in no time at all doesn't make it into the top 100!

 

[sifter132]

[HASHTAG]#100[/HASHTAG] - Abdul Razzaq

Role: Genuine all-rounder. RH batsman, batting mostly between 6-8. Medium-fast right arm bowler - usually first or 2nd change.

Debut: vs Zimbabwe, Lahore, 1996
Matches: 265
Runs: 5080
Avg: 29.70
S/R: 81.25
Wkts: 269
Avg: 31.83
Econ: 4.69

Legacy: Talented fella, he's been used all over the batting and bowling orders for Pakistan over his career. Has played some great knocks, but blows a bit hot and cold - like his teammate Shahid Afridi. Showed his true quality first in Australia, winning player of the series in the tri-series of 99/00. A particularly cherished moment was when Razzaq smashed the normally stingy Glenn McGrath for 5x4s in a row in a match (see vid below ).

Razzaq always managed to find some swing with the new ball, and used to bowl at decent pace. He even has the reputation of having Tendulkar as a bunny! He's dismissed the little master 6 times in ODIs. Although Tendulkar averages 51.5 for those 6 innings, so take that with a grain of salt.

Three of the best (matches in chronological order):
1) 70* (52) & 5/48 (10) vs India, Hobart, 2000. Finished the innings in style, then broke the crucial Tendulkar-Ganguly stand to start an Indian collapse.
2) 63* (61) & 4/53 (10) vs Australia, Perth, 2005. Bowled Gilchrist and Ponting early, as well as a couple of the bowlers at the death. Then came in under fire, Pakistan at 5/125, chasing 265. Helped by Yousuf, Afridi and finally Naved, Razzaq guided Pakistan home with 16 balls to spare.
3) 109* (72) & 1/37 (5) vs South Africa, Abu Dhabi, 2010. Scored 63 of the last 65 runs, Razzaq hitting 10 sixes in his innings, as he shielded the tail. Pakistan chased down 289 with only 1 ball to spare. Awesome knock.

Highlights:

#99 - Brad Hogg

Role: Specialist spinner of left arm chinaman variety. Useful lower order LH batsman, batted mainly at #8.

Debut: vs Zimbabwe, Colombo, 1996
Matches: 123
Runs: 790
Avg: 20.25
S/R: 78.68
Wkts: 156
Avg: 26.84
Econ: 4.51

Legacy: Debuted in 1996 as a fill in for Shane Warne, but it wasn't until 6 years later that Hogg rose again. Warne firstly did his shoulder in the summer of 02/03, and then was busted for his weight loss pills. Supposedly the World Cup defence was on shaky ground...but into those big boots stepped Brad Hogg, the "Sheep Dog", always running around, tongue out, full of energy.

First, he announced his quality with one of my favourite deliveries ever: the flipper which bowled Andy Flower at the 2003 World CUp (see vid below ). And second, to Hogg's great credit he kept going: the retirement of Warne from ODI cricket was never a huge deal for Australia. Hogg picked up the slack beautifully, ending his career with an average of just under 27 vs Warne's career average of just under 26.

Hogg bowled a beautiful wrong'un, which many batsmen were never able to pick, as well as the previously mentioned flipper. And his energy made him a valuable fielder too.

Three of the best (matches in chronological order):
1) 5/41 (9.3) vs Sri Lanka, Dambulla, 2004. Cleaned up the lower half of the Sri Lankan order.
2) 41* (53) & 3/45 (8) vs New Zealand, Sydney, 2004. Bailed out the Aussie batting coming in at 6/161, and then picked up important wickets as Australia defended 261.
3) 5/32 (10) vs WI, Melbourne, 2005. Ripped out the Windies middle order, taking Lara, Chanderpaul, Samuels and Bravo to stop any thoughts of a Windies win.

Highlights:

 

[sami ullah khan]

Razzaq, only if he could keep bowling the way he did in 1999-2000. He was always near and over 140kph. As years went by he started to concentrate on being a batting allrounder and that is where he faltered.

 

[puddleduck]

I think the reason Jonty deserves to get in ahead of other similar players is that he is quite iconic. He's very much held up as one of the pioneers of fielding being something that in itself can change a game.

 

[sifter132]

Great news for Owzat...Fairbrother's in! His fan club is louder than the Carl Hooper fan club at the moment. Sorry for those hanging out to see Carl Hooper. Always underappreciated was Carl.

2 more...couple of Pommies this time. Love these highlights, seeing them play in white...

#98 - Neil Fairbrother

Role: LH middle order batsman. Batted mainly at #5.
Debut: vs India, Sharjah, 1987.
Matches: 75
Runs: 2092
Avg: 39.47
S/R: 72.06

Legacy: Never made it far in Test cricket, believed to be susceptible to genuine pace and ill disciplined outside off stump. But that's not a critical failure in ODI cricket, and Fairbrother turned himself into a very good finisher. Sensible player who knew both how to work the ball and to gradually increase the pace. Unfortunately for Fairbrother, the England selectors were fairly quick to cast him aside after a poor World Cup in 96. He returned for the 98/99 tri-series, but failed in the 99 World Cup and called it a day.

Owzat tells us Fairbrother is every bit the fielder Jonty Rhodes was He was very good I'll give him that, and he was also quick between the wickets, which aided his ability to manipulate the field at the end of an ODI innings.

Three of the best (matches in chronological order):
1) 113* (109) vs West Indies, Lord's, 1991. Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh and Patterson couldn't halt Fairbrother and Hick as they chased down 265 with style and speed, with almost 9 overs to spare. Fairbrother's only century.
2) 53* (52) vs India, Jamshedpur, 1993. Fairbrother saw England home in the last over of this rain reduced game against Kapil Dev, Prabhakar, Srinath and a young Anil Kumble.
3) 67* (105) vs Sri Lanka, Brisbane, 1999. I was at this game! England made tough work of chasing 207, and Fairbrother's cool head was needed as a middle order collapse halted England's momentum. England made it with 4 wickets in hand and 3 balls to spare.

Highlights:

#97 - Nick Knight

Role: LH opening batsman.

Debut: vs Pakistan, Manchester, 1996
Matches: 100
Runs: 3637
Avg: 40.41
S/R: 71.52

Legacy: Like Fairbrother, Knight never made it far in Test cricket. Seemed mainly due to a slightly suspect technique but it was good enough for ODI cricket because he had a great eye. Was a shame because he always had a good temperament and it showed with his handful of ODI centuries.

Started with a bang vs Pakistan, but unluckily for Knight he had one of his quietest seasons in 1999, when the World Cup was on and he spent England's 5 match campaign on the bench, Nasser Hussain opening in his stead. He got to finally play in 2003 in Africa though, his final series.

Good catcher too, one of England's better fielders.

Three of the best (matches in chronological order):
1) 113 (132) vs Pakistan, Birmingham, 1996. Century vs Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain and Mushtaq on a day where only one other passed 50.
2) 125* (145) vs Pakistan, Nottingham, 1996. Same series, this time Knight was the only England player past 30 against Pakistan's strong attack. Wasn't quite enough runs though, Pakistan getting home with 2 balls to spare.
3) 122 (130) vs West Indies, Bridgetown, 1998. Away from home vs Walsh and Ambrose, Knight and Stewart got England to 293, enough for a 16 run victory.

Highlights:

 

[sifter132]

Razzaq, only if he could keep bowling the way he did in 1999-2000. He was always near and over 140kph. As years went by he started to concentrate on being a batting allrounder and that is where he faltered.

Yeah quite right. I knew he'd slowed down, but I didn't realise how much of a drop off in performance he's had with the ball. If you put a mid point on his career around 2003 when Inzy took over as captain, then his numbers are very different:
up til mid 2003: 135 matches, 163 wkts @ 26.42, economy: 4.39
since then: 130 matches, 106 wkts @ 40.16, economy: 5.05

But I guess the good thing about being an all-rounder is you can make up for it a bit with your other skill. Early in his career, he seemed to be either block or bash, but now he's found the bash button much more consistently Using the same split for the bat:
up til mid 2003: 135 matches, 2520 runs @ 28.00, S/R: 72.28
since then: 130 matches, 2560 runs @ 31.60, S/R: 92.55

I think the reason Jonty deserves to get in ahead of other similar players is that he is quite iconic. He's very much held up as one of the pioneers of fielding being something that in itself can change a game.

Agree, his legend is a bit inflated because he was the first. It's a bit like Jayasuriya for dashing openers, and Gilchrist for batting keepers. Those things have become almost standard, but those guys keep getting the honours for being the torch-bearers. I guess that's what the study of history is all about.

----------

Got a couple of Kiwis coming up tonight...

I'm also happy to keep accepting your top 20s/50s whatever, they will play a factor in the final positions, so if you feel inspired to make a list, post it here or PM me with it. Also, if anyone wants to write the 'legacy' section or pick the 3 best games of a particular player who is your favourite let me know.

 

[sami ullah khan]

I will do top 20 that come to my mind and I have mostly watched

1. Waseem Akram
2. Sachin Tendulkar
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Adam Gilchrist
5. Waqar Younis
6. Shane Warne
7. Murali
8. Arvinda Desilva
9. Shaun Pollock
10. Jacques Kallis
11. Imran Khan
12. Inzimam
13. Curtly Ambrose
14. Lara
15 Viv Richards
16. Saeed Anwar
17. Sourav Ganguly
18. Andy Flower
19. Mark Waugh
20. Allan Donald

 

[sifter132]

^Thanks for the contribution


#96 - Gavin Larsen

Role: RH Medium pace bowler, most often the 4th bowler used. RH bat, mostly at #9.

Debut: vs India, Dunedin, 1990.
Matches: 121
Wickets: 113
Avg: 35.39
Econ: 3.76

Legacy: New Zealand had a great tactic in the middle overs back in the 90s - bore the batting team to death. They would unlease Gavin Larsen, Chris Harris, Dipak Patel and Nathan Astle to bowl medium pace or slower: line and length; keep it quiet. Larsen was the stingiest of the lot, his 3.76 economy rate was the one of the lowest in world cricket. Of those who took 100 or more wickets in the 90s, only Ambrose and McDermott's RPO were lower.

Larsen was a valued member of the NZ team, playing in 3 World Cups for the Kiwis and even captained them for 3 ODIs.

Three of the best (matches in chronological order):
1) 3/17 (10) vs Australia, Wellington, 1993. NZ only made 214, but Australia couldn't get the Kiwi medium pacers away, Larsen bowling 3 maidens.
2) 2/12 (10) vs South Africa, Hobart, 1993. Another stilfing performance, Larsen bowled 5 maidens, took Wessels and Cronje as SA could make only 147 from their 50.
3) 3/20 (8.3) vs England, Auckland, 1997. This time defending only 153, Larsen took the last 3 wickets, as England floundered 9 runs short - Larsen MOM.

Highlights:
Not really a highlight bowler...only thing on youtube I can find was this. You can see Larsen bowling in the last couple of minutes, bowling at the death.

#95 - Chris Cairns

Role: Genuine all-rounder. RH middle order batsman usually at #5 or 6. RH fast medium bowler: usually first change, but opened the bowling a fair bit as well.

Debut: vs England, Wellington, 1991.
Matches: 215
Runs: 4950
Avg: 29.46
S/R: 84.26
Wickets: 201
Avg: 32.80
Econ: 4.84

Legacy: Similar to Abdul Razzaq, Cairns was a gifted player who didn't quite deliver on his potential as often as was hoped. That's a bit harsh, as a lot of that was out of his hands though - injuries plagued Cairns. However consistency too often eluded Cairns, particularly with the bat. At his best Cairns was a powerful batsman, who hit the ball just as hard or harder than his legendary father Lance. He made 4 ODI centuries, all of them containing destruction.

More consistent performer with the ball, but he could still occasionally produce the brilliance that NZs often bland and boring attack needed. (see Larsen...) Developed a great slower ball too that made quite a few batsmen look silly, famously Chris Read in a Test match: ducking when it was almost yorker length haha.

Three of the best (matches in chronological order):
1) 103* (87) & 3/37 (10) vs India, Pune, 1995. NZ lost, but Cairns was so good that he still won Man of the Match for his brutal 100 and excellent bowling.
2) 102* (113) & 0/40 (10) vs India, Nairobi, 2000. The final of the Champions Trophy (or ICC Knockout as it was known). Big match performance from Cairns. Coming in at #5 he tied the innings together, guiding NZ home to 265 with 2 balls to spare despite no one else passing 50. The Kiwis only ever cricket trophy!!
3) 102* (99) * 2/44 (10) vs South Africa, Brisbane, 2002. Got Rhodes and Kemp with the ball before playing the winnings innings. NZ were 5/98 at one stage, chasing 242, but Harris and Parore hung in with Cairns, NZ winning with 5 balls to spare.

Highlights: