South Africa Team Discussion

[icyman]

They are fast bowling heavy, in India. I'd have fancied them going into the Final 4 had the edition been held in SA, Eng, Aus or NZ. However, for India, it is somewhat of a weaker strategy. You are right in suggesting Stubbs- could have had an impact. Well, all is not lost for them- this is just the provisional squad which can be changed until 28th as many times as they want. Let's see what happens.

 

[Paranoid Kendroid]

Now that the World Cup is over for Saffas, what do you think should be the roadmap for the next world cup (2027). It is supposed to be in South Africa, so massive advantage there.

I am not too familiar South Africa's domestic structure and T20 league. So won't comment on any fringe players for now.

One thing I do agree is making Markram as the captain (no disrespect to Bavuma). But Reeza Hendricks is not the answer to Bavuma. Maybe recall Janneman Malan? I won't drop Bavuma altogether right now. I still think he can deliver. As for de Kock's replacement, maybe Ryan Rickelton (can also keep) or someone else. Klaasen is anyways a wicket-keeper so that problem is solved.

Rassie van der Dussen. He did well but I think South Africa should look at someone else now. I see Dewald Brevis was batting at 3 in the recent domestic one-day games.
David Miller should stay but SA should look to build their next set of middle-order bashes. Donovan Ferreira, Tristan Stubbs, etc.

In the bowling department, Jansen needs a lot of work. Crumbles under pressure badly. Coetzee is looking like the next superstar. Rabada has not been at his best in this format. I would easily let Nortje come in his place. Ngidi is way much of a hit and miss. Maharaj was scinitillating and should be the primary spinner. Shamsi did well so he will continue too. One thing I always wondered was why George Linde was dropped? He was performing brilliantly in the few internationals he played. Plus could also bat. SA need to breed one more wrist spinner. Don't know any names here. @RUDI will have some idea probably.

So something like this could be their next XI:

J Malan / Bavuma
Dewald Brevis
van der Dussen / Rickelton
Markram
Klaasen
Stubbs / Ferreira
Jansen
Coetzee
Maharaj
Nortje
Shamsi / Rabada / Lizaad Williams / i don't know

this side does feel light on batting. on bowling friendly surfaces, i would just play someone else at 5 (someone who can bat with responsibility like AB de Villiers used to do, I think Miller can excel at this role) and shift everyone one place down, taking out one of the bowler (the last one most probably). don't take my nonsense too seriously. I am just talking out of my arse here

 

[icyman]

South Africa lost the battle mentally yesterday. They were afraid of chasing and hence chose to bat under overcast conditions. This back fired. I feel, they could have made the Finals had they chased / played to the ground conditions.

One thing I do agree is making Markram as the captain (no disrespect to Bavuma).

Again, don't understand why people on this forum are afraid of calling this out. Call it as you see it, without the need to apologize. I do not see people apologizing when they destroyed Babar's captaincy/ batting. Bavuma was notches beneath Babar on all fronts.

But Reeza Hendricks is not the answer to Bavuma. Maybe recall Janneman Malan? I won't drop Bavuma altogether right now. I still think he can deliver. As for de Kock's replacement, maybe Ryan Rickelton (can also keep) or someone else. Klaasen is anyways a wicket-keeper so that problem is solved.

Reeza Hendricks is the short term solution. Could have been better in this edition, seeing as he was on song. I do agree with the slotting in of Jaanemann Malan. He is quite an exicting bat and would to see him play longer for South Africa.

QDK's replacement- The options you've mentioned make sense. Klaasen should be the 1st choice, but they need to prepare a back up as well.

Rassie van der Dussen. He did well but I think South Africa should look at someone else now. I see Dewald Brevis was batting at 3 in the recent domestic one-day games.
David Miller should stay but SA should look to build their next set of middle-order bashes. Donovan Ferreira, Tristan Stubbs, etc.

RVD might/ might not make it till the next edition. For him to be there in 2027, it will take a lot out of his body. If he can maintain himself, there's no reason why he can't be there. Might have to play a different role in that squad though and should perhaps give up on one format.

Brewis is an asset they need to handle with care- with the looming threat of T20 contracts, they need to have an open discussion around his future and what role he plays for which format.

 

[RUDI]

RSA CWC '23

Kuddos to the coaching and support staff, they did a brilliant job. JP Duminy has sparked the squad in a positive way.

Our selectors missed a couple of good players irt squad selections. George Linde and Wayne Parnell with loads of experience should have been included. Linde domestically and internationally have been on song and a way better fielder than Shamsi. Parnell is a much better all rounder than Andile.

Our team looked focused under Markram as captain the couple of games Bavuma was injured and I was hoping they'll sit out Bavuma with the semi final and let Hendricks play.

Jansen (23) and Coetzee (22) was definite great finds for their maiden WC. Pity Jansen crumbled under pressure. I would have love for the selectors to keep him in the starting XI against Afghanistan rather than substituting him with Andile. Backing young a player will go way longer than benching him after a bad game. Nortje as mentor going forward will be crucial for these two.

RSA middle order have been firing on all cylinders all season. Markram, Klaasen and Muller all have contributed.

Domestically we do have great talent coming through. Brevis, De Zorzi, Rickelton, Ferreira, Hermann and others have and should still get ample game time. Hendricks as opener batsman is highly talented, he just needs to be settled in this position and backed by the selectors like they have with other player.

 

[Viper.]

RSA CWC '23

Kuddos to the coaching and support staff, they did a brilliant job. JP Duminy has sparked the squad in a positive way.

Our selectors missed a couple of good players irt squad selections. George Linde and Wayne Parnell with loads of experience should have been included. Linde domestically and internationally have been on song and a way better fielder than Shamsi. Parnell is a much better all rounder than Andile.

Our team looked focused under Markram as captain the couple of games Bavuma was injured and I was hoping they'll sit out Bavuma with the semi final and let Hendricks play.

Jansen (23) and Coetzee (22) was definite great finds for their maiden WC. Pity Jansen crumbled under pressure. I would have love for the selectors to keep him in the starting XI against Afghanistan rather than substituting him with Andile. Backing young a player will go way longer than benching him after a bad game. Nortje as mentor going forward will be crucial for these two.

RSA middle order have been firing on all cylinders all season. Markram, Klaasen and Muller all have contributed.

Domestically we do have great talent coming through. Brevis, De Zorzi, Rickelton, Ferreira, Hermann and others have and should still get ample game time. Hendricks as opener batsman is highly talented, he just needs to be settled in this position and backed by the selectors like they have with other player.

I swear Linde would've been such a great pick. I was fearing Jansen as No. 7 before the WC (Which he proved me wrong later on), plus the fact that SA carried just one backup batter in Hendricks. If 2 Batters got injured/unavailable, Jansen would be batting 6. And they also had just 2 frontline spinners. Linde could've solved all that, being a decent bat for 6-7 and also providing spin option. But South Africa showed that they didn't really need most of that batting and spin in the tournament, but it'd have still been good for team balance

About Parnell, they said he was injured.

Hendricks is getting old he shouldn't be in 2027 plans, maybe stick with him a bit since QDK is now retired but I'd love to see them back Verreynne/Rickelton/Brevis or someone like that as next opener. Dunno if Brevis plays that position though. But currently, it's a spot wide open in SA's ODI lineup. Want to see some of these guys in the squad at least against India.

 

[Bevab]

An opener is the least of concerns for the SA side IMO. They’ve got de Zorzi, Rickelton, and Richards who can all do a job there. Hermann and Breetzke just need a couple of strong seasons in this format and they’d also be in serious contention given their potential. Malan’s always worth a look again given he already has international experience. If things turn out to be dire I’d push Brevis up to open but I’d rather keep him at three and ask him to play a very dynamic accumulator role.

Jansen started strongly but faltered away towards the end of the campaign, I don’t think he’s the worst number seven internationally by any means but it’s time they fast-tracked Mpongwana since he seems to be a better fit for that position. That allows Jansen to bat at eight which gives serious batting depth. One spinner would suffice for a home WC and whilst at the moment the role belongs to Maharaj… I wouldn’t fix him in there since the SA20 may just unearth a mystery spinner out of nowhere potentially.

If I were to think of a 2027 focused XI…

de Zorzi
Rickelton/Hermann/Richards/Malan/newcomer
Brevis
Markram
Stubbs/Verreynne
Ferreira/Stubbs
Mpongwana
Jansen/newcomer
Coetzee
Maharaj/newcomer
Rabada/Maphaka

There are others who would be in and around the squad too such as Ngidi, Phehlukwayo (if he ever gets his career back on track), Hamza and I still believe in Mulder becoming really good if he gets a consistent run of games in a proper role. Ruan de Swardt is another alternative for the all-rounder role. There’ll no doubt be other players who can get into contention after a strong U19 WC showing that can’t be predicted this early. Someone like Klaasen or Bavuma could also still be around and interested in a home WC to end their career if in form.

This has the makings of a really strong side especially at home. As they showed in this WC the newer players don’t seem as affected by the haunted history of the choke like their older sides and this 2027 version may only have a few players with such scars.

 

[Bevab]

https://www.timeslive.co.za/sport/c...down-in-a-semifinal-bavuma-as-proteas-return/

Pretty reasonable interview from the bloke.

 

[Neo 7]

https://www.timeslive.co.za/sport/c...down-in-a-semifinal-bavuma-as-proteas-return/

Pretty reasonable interview from the bloke.

Christian Bale became a chad only after getting training from Bavuma

 

[Viper.]

An opener is the least of concerns for the SA side IMO. They’ve got de Zorzi, Rickelton, and Richards who can all do a job there. Hermann and Breetzke just need a couple of strong seasons in this format and they’d also be in serious contention given their potential. Malan’s always worth a look again given he already has international experience. If things turn out to be dire I’d push Brevis up to open but I’d rather keep him at three and ask him to play a very dynamic accumulator role.

Jansen started strongly but faltered away towards the end of the campaign, I don’t think he’s the worst number seven internationally by any means but it’s time they fast-tracked Mpongwana since he seems to be a better fit for that position. That allows Jansen to bat at eight which gives serious batting depth. One spinner would suffice for a home WC and whilst at the moment the role belongs to Maharaj… I wouldn’t fix him in there since the SA20 may just unearth a mystery spinner out of nowhere potentially.

If I were to think of a 2027 focused XI…

de Zorzi
Rickelton/Hermann/Richards/Malan/newcomer
Brevis
Markram
Stubbs/Verreynne
Ferreira/Stubbs
Mpongwana
Jansen/newcomer
Coetzee
Maharaj/newcomer
Rabada/Maphaka

There are others who would be in and around the squad too such as Ngidi, Phehlukwayo (if he ever gets his career back on track), Hamza and I still believe in Mulder becoming really good if he gets a consistent run of games in a proper role. Ruan de Swardt is another alternative for the all-rounder role. There’ll no doubt be other players who can get into contention after a strong U19 WC showing that can’t be predicted this early. Someone like Klaasen or Bavuma could also still be around and interested in a home WC to end their career if in form.

This has the makings of a really strong side especially at home. As they showed in this WC the newer players don’t seem as affected by the haunted history of the choke like their older sides and this 2027 version may only have a few players with such scars.

I am just seeing this, and here are my thoughts

Back then I'd have wanted Verreynne/Rickelton as opener but TDZ has nailed that in now.
Rickelton should be given a go too and backed as 2nd opener since he's a domestic List A performer
Verreynne averages almost 40 or so in ODIs and has had good domestic seasons so I'd wanna try fit him in. Maybe both him and Stubbs play and Ferreira at 7 (if Ferreira, markram and brevis are good enough as 5th bowler). Else one of them may not play
Im still hoping Miller/Klaasen could somehow make it to 2027. Klaasen would only be 36. Could be an option if Verreynne fails and they need a WK. Stubbs isnt full-time WK iirc.

Jansen should hopefully be in the plans and so should Coetzee. I dont see any spinner replacing Maharaj in current SA circuit but they could unearth gems in the U19 wcs and later domestic matches before 2027. Rabada should also hopefully, stay fit, and play. Rabada, Coetzee and Jansen should be the pace atack. Nandre Burger in the mix too as he's looked impressive.

Ngidi and Phehlukwayo should honestly not be in the plans AT ALL in 2027. Especially Andile. His good days are done and dusted. I've been hearing of this guy called Beyers Swanepoel in domestic who has been touted for the next AR role as Mulder is failing. Idk how good he is in 50-over cricket. SREC has him in SA20, so he's probably decent for limited overs. And if Mulder does perform, it's a blessing- He's the only pace AR in the country who can bat 6, and SA have always had problems with that depth regarding pace ARs after Morris and Pretorius retired. That's why I feel he gets so much backing. He is a far more solid batter than Jansen for a pace AR role, So if he improves both batting and bowling he will be an asset.

Idk much about Maphaka and Mpongwana.

 

[Bevab]

I am just seeing this, and here are my thoughts

Back then I'd have wanted Verreynne/Rickelton as opener but TDZ has nailed that in now.
Rickelton should be given a go too and backed as 2nd opener since he's a domestic List A performer
Verreynne averages almost 40 or so in ODIs and has had good domestic seasons so I'd wanna try fit him in. Maybe both him and Stubbs play and Ferreira at 7 (if Ferreira, markram and brevis are good enough as 5th bowler). Else one of them may not play
Im still hoping Miller/Klaasen could somehow make it to 2027. Klaasen would only be 36. Could be an option if Verreynne fails and they need a WK. Stubbs isnt full-time WK iirc.

Jansen should hopefully be in the plans and so should Coetzee. I dont see any spinner replacing Maharaj in current SA circuit but they could unearth gems in the U19 wcs and later domestic matches before 2027. Rabada should also hopefully, stay fit, and play. Rabada, Coetzee and Jansen should be the pace atack. Nandre Burger in the mix too as he's looked impressive.

Ngidi and Phehlukwayo should honestly not be in the plans AT ALL in 2027. Especially Andile. His good days are done and dusted. I've been hearing of this guy called Beyers Swanepoel in domestic who has been touted for the next AR role as Mulder is failing. Idk how good he is in 50-over cricket. SREC has him in SA20, so he's probably decent for limited overs. And if Mulder does perform, it's a blessing- He's the only pace AR in the country who can bat 6, and SA have always had problems with that depth regarding pace ARs after Morris and Pretorius retired. That's why I feel he gets so much backing. He is a far more solid batter than Jansen for a pace AR role, So if he improves both batting and bowling he will be an asset.

Idk much about Maphaka and Mpongwana.

Not sure why you’re hung up on Verreynne as an opener when he’s not one by trade.

I don’t think you can get away with the fifth bowler duties being shared by Ferreira, Markram and Stubbs. They’ve got batting depth down the order too so they can get away with a bowling all-rounder at seven. I expect Stubbs to turn into a full time keeper once he realises that it is his golden ticket to ensuring selection in the team much like Rahul did in 2019 (could still end up being wrong if Verreynne or Rickelton seal a spot). I expect Miller to turn into a T20 freelancer by then due to how long he’s been around while Klaasen may still try to stick around.

With Jansen and Rabada I’m leaving the door half open for them to turn into primarily red ball bowlers, Jansen because he’s much better in tests and Rabada because of how long he’s been playing at the top level. Rabada could also do a Boult but I expect that to be unlikely.

I wouldn’t select Ngidi or Andile by then either but they seem obsessed with trying to turn the latter into an international standard player again while the former manages to do just enough to stick around. Swanepoel is very good, I expect him to be their future test number seven and he should be another candidate for the same role in ODIs. Morris and Pretorius weren’t really top six batters, for all the criticism Andile gets he does have a better ODI record than Morris who I think is one of the most overrated players for South Africa in recent times because he was good in the IPL.

Mpongwana and Maphaka both have massive potential, the latter’s one of the youngest bowlers to play in the U19 WC and has already played for the A team. Mpongwana’s still got a long way to go before he becomes a reliable hitter but he’s done plenty of impressive things already.

 

[Viper.]

Not sure why you’re hung up on Verreynne as an opener when he’s not one by trade.

I don’t think you can get away with the fifth bowler duties being shared by Ferreira, Markram and Stubbs. They’ve got batting depth down the order too so they can get away with a bowling all-rounder at seven. I expect Stubbs to turn into a full time keeper once he realises that it is his golden ticket to ensuring selection in the team much like Rahul did in 2019 (could still end up being wrong if Verreynne or Rickelton seal a spot). I expect Miller to turn into a T20 freelancer by then due to how long he’s been around while Klaasen may still try to stick around.

With Jansen and Rabada I’m leaving the door half open for them to turn into primarily red ball bowlers, Jansen because he’s much better in tests and Rabada because of how long he’s been playing at the top level. Rabada could also do a Boult but I expect that to be unlikely.

I wouldn’t select Ngidi or Andile by then either but they seem obsessed with trying to turn the latter into an international standard player again while the former manages to do just enough to stick around. Swanepoel is very good, I expect him to be their future test number seven and he should be another candidate for the same role in ODIs. Morris and Pretorius weren’t really top six batters, for all the criticism Andile gets he does have a better ODI record than Morris who I think is one of the most overrated players for South Africa in recent times because he was good in the IPL.

Mpongwana and Maphaka both have massive potential, the latter’s one of the youngest bowlers to play in the U19 WC and has already played for the A team. Mpongwana’s still got a long way to go before he becomes a reliable hitter but he’s done plenty of impressive things already.

I saw Verryenne open a few games when QDK wasn't there, I'd have Rickelton there anyway instead

I can totally see Rabada stop playing T20Is but I still feel they should be there in the ODI setup till 2027. After the WC I can see Rabada focusing fully on tests. Jansen is still young and can be groomed into an all-format Bowling AR and No. 7 player as well.

Pretorius was decent at No. 6 at dire situations when there was no choice. He was a better option than shoving Andile or Jansen up there which would be terrible for the depth. But Mulder is superior to all as a batter which is why if he performs it's a great investment

 

[Bevab]

https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/128977/where-was-temba-bavuma

If this is the cultural attitude towards captains playing with injuries in South Africa… it’s no wonder that Bavuma and management felt the pressure to play in the semis.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/128977/where-was-temba-bavuma

If this is the cultural attitude towards captains playing with injuries in South Africa… it’s no wonder that Bavuma and management felt the pressure to play in the semis.

Wasn't this guy @Aislabie was calling a wrong'un yesterday?

 

[Bevab]

Wasn't this guy @Aislabie was calling a wrong'un yesterday?

Same bloke.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Same bloke.

They must pay him by the word.