5th Test: Australia v England at the SCG - 3-7 Jan
- Thread starter barmyarmy
- Start date
Highlander999
ICC President
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2006
- Location
- London
I got a phone call this morning as well. I can do a fine job of wafting the bat around, and then standing around on a pitch for 2 days getting a tan.
Highlander999
ICC President
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2006
- Location
- London
Nah, you're not in the loop. It's the tactic for the final test. No extravagant shots, just lot's of pokes and prods outside the off stump.
I decided to see how long it was before this thread materialised
Shows a sincere lack of foreplanning and any idea how to fix the problem, five bowler theory clearly didn't work and I'm not sure adding candidates for the 'one Test wonder' list is a great notion.
I'm not saying they definitely will only play one Test or aren't good enough, it's just not as ideal a scenario to throw them in as it appears on face value. Yes England can't win the series, that ship sailed a long time ago, but then what can they gain in a run of possibly ONE Test in the series.
I certainly wouldn't throw in any spinner other than 'the next Warne' in at the deep end down under, I think Borthwick may get a touch of the caning Kerrigan got and look where he is now. Or indeed he could be a Schofield or (cheap runs cost less @ ) Salisbury, not sure if any other leggies have played for England since them?
There comes a point in a series when you're not faring well you have to make a decision, this seems almost an empty gesture and England may as well bend over and let the aussies take turns at them for this white flag waving, 'we just haven't got a clue what to do' gesture.
Here's what is fundamentally wrong, when the time is right to give players a chance England let their primadonnas find some form.
vs NZL (2013) : Cook, Trott, Bell, Swann, Prior, Broad, Finn, Anderson - even Compton (not exactly young), Bairstow and Root weren't making their debuts.
England won 2-0, only Root has remotely established himself while Compton shot himself in the foot.
vs NZL (12/13) : Prior, Trott, Compton, Pietersen, Root, Finn, Cook, Broad, Panesar, Anderson, Bairstow, Bell
Couldn't even win a Test, the series ending stalemate with not a debut in sight. Same old same old, a series England would struggle to lose and it's the same faces. You have to wonder if it didn't make some of them a little complacent, made some think Compton was good enough with two hundreds yet three other innings totalling 15 probably told us more as it happens.
vs WIN (2012) : Bell, Strauss, Cook, Bresnan, Pietersen, Trott, Broad, Prior, Swann, Anderson, Onions, Finn.
Woohoo, third last series against weak opposition and we can boast ONE debutant, BAIRSTOW. Won the series 2-0 and still no foreplanning for future series with maybe 2-3 players making debut and others being rested.
Rather than go through the whole load of series, the pattern is clear. Even though opportunity is a bit limited given we play India, South Africa, Australia and even a potentially dangerous Pakistan and Sri Lanka a lot, we don't give debuts at sensible opportunity.
Root - debut IN India.
Compton - debut IN India.
Patel - debut IN Sri Lanka
Stokes - debut IN Australia
Bopara - debut IN Sri Lanka
Taylor - debut at home to South Africa
Kerrigan - debut at home to Australia, series won but single/final Test
Woakes - debut at home to Australia, series won but single/final Test
At least with Carberry and Bairstow it was Bangladesh and West Indies, Finn also in Bangladesh, but too often it is easy runs/wickets for old hands in the easier series and few debuts come chances to gain experience. Sure a number come through it, but in terms of long(er) term selection policies it sucks
Shows a sincere lack of foreplanning and any idea how to fix the problem, five bowler theory clearly didn't work and I'm not sure adding candidates for the 'one Test wonder' list is a great notion.
I'm not saying they definitely will only play one Test or aren't good enough, it's just not as ideal a scenario to throw them in as it appears on face value. Yes England can't win the series, that ship sailed a long time ago, but then what can they gain in a run of possibly ONE Test in the series.
I certainly wouldn't throw in any spinner other than 'the next Warne' in at the deep end down under, I think Borthwick may get a touch of the caning Kerrigan got and look where he is now. Or indeed he could be a Schofield or (cheap runs cost less @ ) Salisbury, not sure if any other leggies have played for England since them?
There comes a point in a series when you're not faring well you have to make a decision, this seems almost an empty gesture and England may as well bend over and let the aussies take turns at them for this white flag waving, 'we just haven't got a clue what to do' gesture.
Here's what is fundamentally wrong, when the time is right to give players a chance England let their primadonnas find some form.
vs NZL (2013) : Cook, Trott, Bell, Swann, Prior, Broad, Finn, Anderson - even Compton (not exactly young), Bairstow and Root weren't making their debuts.
England won 2-0, only Root has remotely established himself while Compton shot himself in the foot.
vs NZL (12/13) : Prior, Trott, Compton, Pietersen, Root, Finn, Cook, Broad, Panesar, Anderson, Bairstow, Bell
Couldn't even win a Test, the series ending stalemate with not a debut in sight. Same old same old, a series England would struggle to lose and it's the same faces. You have to wonder if it didn't make some of them a little complacent, made some think Compton was good enough with two hundreds yet three other innings totalling 15 probably told us more as it happens.
vs WIN (2012) : Bell, Strauss, Cook, Bresnan, Pietersen, Trott, Broad, Prior, Swann, Anderson, Onions, Finn.
Woohoo, third last series against weak opposition and we can boast ONE debutant, BAIRSTOW. Won the series 2-0 and still no foreplanning for future series with maybe 2-3 players making debut and others being rested.
Rather than go through the whole load of series, the pattern is clear. Even though opportunity is a bit limited given we play India, South Africa, Australia and even a potentially dangerous Pakistan and Sri Lanka a lot, we don't give debuts at sensible opportunity.
Root - debut IN India.
Compton - debut IN India.
Patel - debut IN Sri Lanka
Stokes - debut IN Australia
Bopara - debut IN Sri Lanka
Taylor - debut at home to South Africa
Kerrigan - debut at home to Australia, series won but single/final Test
Woakes - debut at home to Australia, series won but single/final Test
At least with Carberry and Bairstow it was Bangladesh and West Indies, Finn also in Bangladesh, but too often it is easy runs/wickets for old hands in the easier series and few debuts come chances to gain experience. Sure a number come through it, but in terms of long(er) term selection policies it sucks
If Borthwick comes in he will definitely be targeted but Sydney is usually the best place to be a spin bowler.
I'm fine with Ballance coming in - should have happened earlier - as he is a proper batsman.
I reckon that I would go with:
Cook
Root
Bell
Pietersen
Ballance
Stokes
Prior
Bresnan
Broad
Anderson
Panesar
I'm kind of loathe to leave the bowling attack as it is but I don't see anyone who can come in and improve it.
I'm fine with Ballance coming in - should have happened earlier - as he is a proper batsman.
I reckon that I would go with:
Cook
Root
Bell
Pietersen
Ballance
Stokes
Prior
Bresnan
Broad
Anderson
Panesar
I'm kind of loathe to leave the bowling attack as it is but I don't see anyone who can come in and improve it.
ferg512
International Coach
Really wouldn't be surprised if this is even an innings win for Australia, absolutely no fight in England and from what I've read on cricinfo they all can't wait to go home. Also, a bit harsh on Carberry I reckon. Hasn't done too bad really when you consider how bad England have been.
Wait, Borthwick might play as the main spinner? That's got disaster written all over it. I like him as a player, but he's more a batsman with a bit of part time spin at the moment. Just hope if he does play that he doesn't suffer too much, as he can have a big future for us. Just in the top 7 and as the second spinner for me.
I think it makes sense to make changes, although I'd argue that it should have happened before the last match. I just hope the likes of Ballance, Rankin, Borthwick etc, (if they get picked) get almost a free hit. By that I mean, it's going to be hard for them, so if it does go badly, it would be harsh to write them off completely, but having the chance to show what they can do is no bad thing.
I'm not against Root being dropped either. He needs to go back to County Cricket and pummel some bowlers in to the ground again. He'll be a great player for us, just not quite yet. I still can't see Carberry being around after this series either though, so it's a toss up for me.
I'm not against Root being dropped either. He needs to go back to County Cricket and pummel some bowlers in to the ground again. He'll be a great player for us, just not quite yet. I still can't see Carberry being around after this series either though, so it's a toss up for me.
C Boomer
Club Captain
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2013
Boyd Rankin's possible inclusion for the Sidney Test..
It will be a wondrous achievement if the big man from Bready, N.Ireland gets the nod from the England selectors and makes his debut in Sidney for the 5th Test match!
Some may counter this match is a bit of a damp squib and a foregone conclusion, such has been the Aussie's dominance over England thus far, but have no fear, if Rankin pulls on the three lions shirt later tonight ( our time ), he'll not be found wanting in any shape or form !
And though Ireland's loss is most certainly England's gain, everyone back home will be cheering him on and wishing him every success, from family, friends, his previous international teammates and indeed the many thousands of cricket supporters up and down the length of the Emerald Isle, as afterall, this is what every cricketer aspires to achieve, play at the very pinnacle of their chosen sport and no better an occasion to do it than in an Ashes series!
It will be a wondrous achievement if the big man from Bready, N.Ireland gets the nod from the England selectors and makes his debut in Sidney for the 5th Test match!
Some may counter this match is a bit of a damp squib and a foregone conclusion, such has been the Aussie's dominance over England thus far, but have no fear, if Rankin pulls on the three lions shirt later tonight ( our time ), he'll not be found wanting in any shape or form !
And though Ireland's loss is most certainly England's gain, everyone back home will be cheering him on and wishing him every success, from family, friends, his previous international teammates and indeed the many thousands of cricket supporters up and down the length of the Emerald Isle, as afterall, this is what every cricketer aspires to achieve, play at the very pinnacle of their chosen sport and no better an occasion to do it than in an Ashes series!
blockerdave
ICC Chairman
I think Bresnan had to go - average speed around mid-70s in the last test is not good enough unless you're hooping it round corners.
but bizarrely we seem to have gone from an almost too rigid closed/shop "consistency" to a cast around whoever we have got type selection.
when you look at the amount of chances the likes of cook and bell have got at different times in their career if I was root I would be fuming. (admittedly bell has been dropped too in the past)
bell has been found out at number 3 a million times before, why do we think this time will be different?
odd selection. very odd.
but bizarrely we seem to have gone from an almost too rigid closed/shop "consistency" to a cast around whoever we have got type selection.
when you look at the amount of chances the likes of cook and bell have got at different times in their career if I was root I would be fuming. (admittedly bell has been dropped too in the past)
bell has been found out at number 3 a million times before, why do we think this time will be different?
odd selection. very odd.
There only so much more of Joe Root nicking off to the slips/keeper that I can take at the moment. And sure, Bell has been found out before, but with KP refusing to bat there, why not go through it all over again? We need some entertainment after all. At least we still get to see the now professional skills of Steven Finn's drink carrying.
ste_mc_efc
Chairman of Selectors
Think root has been hard done by.
does well at 6, shunted up to open. does average so pushed back to 6, fine.
Gets moved again to 3, struggles and is dropped.
pretty tough for him to win batting in different spots in relatively quick succession.
does well at 6, shunted up to open. does average so pushed back to 6, fine.
Gets moved again to 3, struggles and is dropped.
pretty tough for him to win batting in different spots in relatively quick succession.
