Australia battinling brittle middle

[aussie1st]

It was first uttered during Australia's late lamented golden era and quickly became a cliche - it is harder to get out of the side than into it.

There was no shortage of players to attest to the strength of the adage.

Batsmen such as Darren Lehmann, Stuart Law, Martin Love, Michael Bevan and Brad Hodge - even back to Jamie Siddons - could be found muttering the mantra behind grandstands the nation over. These were players with big numbers, stacks of runs, whose scanty Test tallies in no way matched their ability.

In Siddons' case, playing not even one Test was a gross injustice for a batsman of rare class.

The wider picture showed Australia had perhaps the greatest batting depth in its history.

The same cannot be said of today. Beyond Phil Hughes, and prolific but war-weary fellow openers Chris Rogers and Phil Jaques, a worrying gap in Australia's batting depth has creaked open.

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Names being mentioned are the usual Shaun Marsh, Ferguson, White and Bailey. With the bolters in Khawaja, Smith and Mitch Marsh. David Hussey seems to have fallen of the radar.

Interesting enough Blewett went outside his State and nominated Khawaja rather than Klinger or Cosgrove.

Former Test batsman Greg Blewett said the lack of ready-made middle order batsmen was further muddied by the fact Shield cricket had been on hold for more than a month for the domestic Twenty20 competition. Blewett nominated elegant New South Welshman Usman Khawaja as the pick of the candidates.

"He's a gun, mate, I reckon - he's got it," Blewett said.

"I think he'd do really well straight away. He's probably got the best technique out out all of those (contenders).

Certainly not our usual depth in the batting department but quite a few young guns that could change that.

 

[sifter132]

They probably had a couple of more proven options back then, but it's easy in hindsight to say Hayden, Langer, Martyn and Lehmann were pretty good. By the mid 90s 3 of those guys had already failed at Test cricket and had been dropped after only a few Tests. Bevan and Hodge were just kids with potential and I bet their career averages back then weren't much good either, if that's the stat he wants to use.

And really, it's hard to predict based on averages what the current crop could do in a Test. We have no idea what depth we really have until Marsh, Bailey, Klinger, Ferguson, Khawaja and Cosgrove actually get a shot. If they fail, THEN we can complain about the lack of depth But at present it looks like they could do well. Ferguson, Marsh and White have all looked at least decent-to-good at international level.

And on depth, the thing I currently like about the Shield comp is that at least the states are playing the kids and are trying to unearth people. There aren't many 30+ year olds in the comp right now. The only team that does play the oldies is Victoria and you can kinda understand given they have Rogers, D.Hussey and Hodge - 3 pretty damn good 30+ year olds.

At least we aren't like Pakistan or New Zealand or the West Indies that have already tried the 12 good batsmen in the country and found no one good.

 

[aussie1st]

Well using a period I know between the late 90s to 00 we had Bevan, Hodge, Hussey, Katich, Law, Martyn all scoring a mountain of runs in domestic cricket each season. If one of our batters were injured or lost form we had a number of options to choose from with excellent FC records and form. At present we have no one that fits that with Hodge now retired.

And really, it's hard to predict based on averages what the current crop could do in a Test. We have no idea what depth we really have until Marsh, Bailey, Klinger, Ferguson, Khawaja and Cosgrove actually get a shot. If they fail, THEN we can complain about the lack of depth But at present it looks like they could do well. Ferguson, Marsh and White have all looked at least decent-to-good at international level.

Depth for me has always been having players that you would pick in an instant based on their runs in Shield cricket. If we define it your way then we would always have unknown depth, if the guys you mentioned failed then we could just say there are other youngsters that still haven't been tested. For me its simple, if a player is out of form would you be able to replace him or would you have people saying "there is no one better than him"? That is pretty much the case with North atm, even if we wanted to replace him we would have to pick a less seasoned player than the past where we replaced Lehmann with Hussey, Langer with Katich.

 

[Robelinda]

We might have the amazing depth now, but one could argue no team in the history of the game has had the batting depth in reserve we had from say 93 to 2003, it was mental. Now we do have some talented youngsters waiting a chance, not as many as before but its a pretty good situation I wouldve thought. We arent desperate for a stack of players right now, we have a good selection of under 25 guys going about their business who could all be picked in the next few years, Khwaja/Smith/Marsh/Bailey/White, better than picking guys who are over 30 which we did in the last decade, like Love, Hodge, Hussey, Katich, Martyn, Lehmann- all had better careers in their 30's than in 20's. I think the media needs something bad to say about the team, I think they would rather we lose sometimes.

I'm not worried, except who the hell is going to bat 3 when Punter retires. Thats the biggest hole to fill of all.

 

[Offspinner]

Personally, I think that although we don't have the depth of the "golden era", we're doing alright. The biggest issue is that selectors are not willing to try some of the younger guys in Test cricket yet, especially considering North should be on the edge of being dropped.

Cameron White was given an opportunity, but he was given the wrong role and they tried to play him as the frontline spinner. If he was put in for North and was given the role of batsman and not have to worry about bowling, I think he'd do well.

Shaun Marsh is probably unlucky at the moment because we have the Watson/Katich pair that is doing so well at the moment and I can't see him batting anywhere other than opening.

As for Smith and Khawaja, they probably need some more time in domestic cricket before being considered for international level. Bailey on the other hand, would be my second choice behind White for North's replacement.

I'm not worried, except who the hell is going to bat 3 when Punter retires. Thats the biggest hole to fill of all.

That's probably our biggest concern at the moment. I'm not really sure who could come in as a Test number 3. A couple of years ago I would've probably said Hodge straight away, but he's retired from the longer stuff and I don't know enough about the others to comment.

 

[Robelinda]

Only ONE batsman has been picked in the top 6 since 1992 with a FC average of below 40, and thats Michael Clarke, his average for NSW was about 36 when he got picked. Inspired selection maybe, and over the years Ive changed my view that players should only be selected if they have a minimum 45 average, guys like Marsh you can just tell would be successful, but he still only averages 36 for WA, so there must be something very wrong that he cant dominate FC bowlers, 36 for someone who's been playing FC cricket for 10 years isnt great. Clarke was picked young on promise, maybe that will happen again, but there's no point selecting someone who just happens to be having a good half season, where he's had a very average past few seasons ( Bailey, White, Marsh). You gotta consistently back your seasons up, especially if you are over 25 or 26. Smith looks to be someone who is very young and they just might give him a go, we could use the extra bowling cover, and his technique as a batsman is miles above White.

 

[aussie1st]

I reckon Khawaja looks to be the one for Ponting's spot. Hes got the best technique of the youngsters and like Ponting he has a brutal pull shot. I guess the one question will whether or not he can up the tempo. Else Watson might slip to 3 with Khawaja and Hughes the openers.

Marsh FC record is a slight worry but being in the ODI side offsets that a bit and means he'll be in the selectors eye. He didn't get many games last season so I would write that off, the two seasons before that he averaged over 50. White has been consistent for the past 3 seasons, averaging near 50 in each. Bailey has been average in previous years and only starting to go well now. Hes probably only being mentioned because he was touted as a star early in his career.

 

[drainpipe32]

We've been spoilt over the last 15 years; this is what international cricket should be about! Having cracks in the armour isn't a hindrance, it's a challenge!

We've got a number of young players who should be able to help out with our middle order wobbles. Callum Ferguson and Cameron White have already helped the cause, but a number of young bolters still lie in the domestic system. Phillip Hughes and Usman Khawaja spring to mind, but FFS we've got the best T20 sides in the world! Surely we have a couple of young players that can hit a ball!

It's good to see the state sides giving the younger players a go now, rather than the veterans. As disappointing as it was for Brad Hodge to step out, I wonder who will come in to replace him?

 

[sifter132]

Depth for me has always been having players that you would pick in an instant based on their runs in Shield cricket. If we define it your way then we would always have unknown depth, if the guys you mentioned failed then we could just say there are other youngsters that still haven't been tested. For me its simple, if a player is out of form would you be able to replace him or would you have people saying "there is no one better than him"? That is pretty much the case with North atm, even if we wanted to replace him we would have to pick a less seasoned player than the past where we replaced Lehmann with Hussey, Langer with Katich.

I see how what I wrote is a bit airy-fairy What I really mean is that we are just at a different part of the cycle, because the results haven't come out yet. I compared it to the mid-90s because maybe we had a lot of young batsmen with potential back then eg. Bevan, Hodge, Blewett, Slater, Hayden, Langer, Martyn, Law, Ponting. I don't like comparing our current talent to the mid 90s because those guys all turned out good. But the age and lack of year in,year out performance of our current crop is similar, that's all I mean.

Around 2000 those guys had all flourished and were pumping out big runs in the Shield, plus we had guys like Katich coming along. The only guys I remember pumping big runs in the Shield in the mid 90s were Dean Jones, Darren Lehmann and Hayden.

It also seems to me those guys like Katich and Hussey had played quite a lot of cricket before they were picked. I don't think we've got any potential young batsman apart from Cameron White who's played a LOT of first class cricket. Rogers, D.Hussey and Jaques have played a lot, but they aren't seriously considered a potential for-the-future pick, they are more band-aid solutions. Ferguson, Bailey and Marsh have played around 50 first class games each. Is that enough to judge them? I don't know, but it's worth asking.

Either way it doesn't really matter, because they are the best we've got. Talking about lack of depth is great, but it doesn't change much. You still have to pick the best available batsman.

 

[drainpipe32]

It also seems to me those guys like Katich and Hussey had played quite a lot of cricket before they were picked. I don't think we've got any potential young batsman apart from Cameron White who's played a LOT of first class cricket. Rogers, D.Hussey and Jaques have played a lot, but they aren't seriously considered a potential for-the-future pick, they are more band-aid solutions. Ferguson, Bailey and Marsh have played around 50 first class games each. Is that enough to judge them? I don't know, but it's worth asking.

The thing is, people just don't debut at 20 any more.

 

[angryangy]

Marsh, Cosgrove and White each average about 50 in the last two (and a bit) years. Klinger has averaged 80 since joining South Australia. Career averages are deceptive; it's like trying to imagine what a rollercoaster is based off its length and average velocity. Players in their mid 20s can grow a lot; just look at Rogers or Hodge when they were 25. More to the point, there's a nice bucketful of players in their early 20 or even late teens right now. Who are we to say who will be good for our depth when called upon and who won't be? Career average wasn't enough for the likes of Blewett or Elliott, while Slater at 30 wasn't the batsman he looked to be at 25.

 

[aussie1st]

It also seems to me those guys like Katich and Hussey had played quite a lot of cricket before they were picked. I don't think we've got any potential young batsman apart from Cameron White who's played a LOT of first class cricket. Rogers, D.Hussey and Jaques have played a lot, but they aren't seriously considered a potential for-the-future pick, they are more band-aid solutions. Ferguson, Bailey and Marsh have played around 50 first class games each. Is that enough to judge them? I don't know, but it's worth asking.

Well you don't expect the young guys to have much experience, more leaning on guys in their late 20s that could fill the bridge while we wait on the youngsters. In that department we have Klinger, Bailey, Marsh, White and maybe Ferguson. None really have the FC record that I've come to be use to. There are a few youngsters I would give a shot but our selectors clearly won't take that punt, they need to be kicking the door down like Hughes did.

 

[drainpipe32]

It's because the standards been set so high over the last 15 years....