DRAFT! Ashes history...

Who's drafted the best Ashes team?


  • Total voters
    9

Samuels

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Woodfull was an opener! I think he played a couple of times in the middle, but was definitely known for his opening. Edrich played a bit at #3 I think so you could shift Leyland down to 6, and have Edrich-Hammond-May in the middle.
Woodfull was a man who was flexible enough to open and was fine batting in the middle order as well. In fact, he was one of the candidates for Cricinfo's all time Australia XI's middle order batsman's spot. That said, I like your idea about promoting Woodfull up the order and have my best batsmen in the order. Doing so will make my middle order rock solid with Edrich-Hammond-May-Leyland combo.

Really like that team though :thumbs Hogg, Alderman and McGrath are a trio that complement each other's skills nicely, and the batsmen are all good players. Hammond can bowl useful overs as your 5th bowler. Peter May is a great pick. He might be my captain - he's one of England's most underappreciated players I feel. Stylish batsman and successful captain.

I'm quite glad to have the all Australian fast bowling unit. They have remarkable record. Briggs, I feel was under-rated in his time. He was an extraordinary cricketer if you ask me. 2000+ FC wickets at 16 (even on those wet wickets) and 10 FC centuries is quite a record.

Who is your great Aussie batsman that we've all missed? Is it a guy who played around 1900, left handed, South Australian?

:yes Not sure whether I did the correct thing by letting him go for Woodfull. :p
 

Umair7

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:aus: Matthew Hayden
:aus: Bill Ponsford
:eng: Michael Vaughan
:aus: Michael Clarke :bwl: :c:
:aus: Ian Chappell :bwl: :vc:
:aus: Michael Hussey
:eng: Alan Knott :wk:
:eng: Bobby Peel :bwl:
:aus: Charles "Terror" Turner :bwl:
:aus: John James Ferris :bwl:
:aus: Craig McDermott :bwl:
 

Fenil

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After much thought and a last minute change in tactics, I pick Hugh Trumble and Clem Hill. I was looking to pick a seamer instead of Hill but decided I have Jackson who is a good enough 5th bowler and there is always a Steve Waugh when needed. I just couldn't see Hill slip away. What a masterful batsmen he must have been to be hailed as the best of his time when he played at the time of KS Ranji, Trumper and WG Grace!

:eng: :bat: Herbert Sutcliffe (2741 runs @ 66.85)
:aus: :bat: Bill Lawry (2233 runs @ 48.54)
:aus: :bat: Clem Hill (2660 runs @ 35.46)
:aus: :bat: Steve Waugh :c: (3173 runs @ 58.75)
:eng: :bat: KS Ranji (989 runs @ 44.95)
:eng: :ar: Stanley Jackson (1415 runs @48.79, 24 wickets @ 33.29)
:aus: :ar: Keith Miller (1511 runs @33.57, 87 wickets @ 22.4)
:aus: :wk: Brad Haddin (844 runs @36.69, 53 dismissals @ 2.12/innings)
:aus: :ar: Hugh Trumble (141 wickets @ 20.88)
:eng: :ar: Fred Trueman (79 wickets @ 25.3)
:eng: :bwl: Bob Willis (123 wickets @ 24.37)

My Take

Bowling: The main idea to get an extra batsman was to use Miller as a pure bowler because by what I have heard of him, he performed better when there was no burden of batting on him and his average of 22 is quite phenomenal. Trumble is a good inclusion to the team with 141 wickets in his kitty. I like him as he was the one who started varying pace as a spinner and deceived the greatest of batsmen with his variations. Willis was one of the best Ashes bowlers ever and certainly one of the best attacking bowlers of his time. Not much is required to be said about the great Fred Trueman who was the most complete fast bowler of his time. In all, I like the variation my bowling attack has got. Fast and slingy Trueman who could probably reverse the older ball thanks to his action. Willis, the whole hearted bowler who was on target everytime he bowled. Miller, the fast medium bowler who would wreck havoc in any batting order and Trumble the second highest Ashes wicket taker in terms of spin bowlers. The four will be ably supported by Stanley Jackson who was no mean bowler himself and will get support from the skipper himself if required.

Batting: Lots and lots of batting! Right from Sutcliffe to Haddin and a bit of Trumble and Trueman. Sutcliffe was one of the best ever openers world cricket has witnessed. Lawry was as good as rock and one of the most reliable batsmen. Hill, the man who was everywhere in the record books till Don Bradman came to the scene. He might not have scored too many centuries in the Ashes series but if you consider his dismissals in 90s four times, you would know he was always amongst the runs. Steve Waugh. Usually bats at 5 but given his Ashes record, I'd like to have him bat at 4 where ideally your best middle order bats. If you may recall, I let go Berrington for Waugh. The reason was quite evident. His captainship skill. With him as a captain, one can be rest assured he will bring out the best in the team which his biggest USP in the team apart from a batsman and a useful part time bowler. Ranji. The man who dared to play differently. The man who left the great Jackson in awe with his flurry of unsual strokes might not have a great Ashes record but certainly was a great batsman. In comes Stanley Jackson, the man who looked all class when batting and a great FC bowler. A useful allrounder to have giving a lot more balance to the team. Keith Miller, safely the best white allrounder ever (no pun intended). His records speaks volumes about his ability. At #7, things would be ideal more often than not for his attacking style of play. Some say he was good enough to make it to the 1948 Invincibles side solely on his bowling or his batting while others are of the opinion that if he had taken his batting seriously, his average could have easily been 47. Remarkable isn't it? Haddin. Also reason why he is batting lower than Miller is the fact he has not been good form. Had been a cricketer from the past with the record he has at the moment, I might have put him at the #7 spot. That apart, he has had a great record behind the wickets. Most of his dismissals are catches but he haven't had bowlers like Warne and McGrath so we can say there is not much the bowlers has done in him having those many dismissals to his name and it is not Haddin's fault that Australia has not been able to find a decent spinner in his time which meant there are not too many stumpings beside Haddin's name. By what I have read about Trumble he was a useful lower order batsman who relied on his defensive skills to get runs. Probably he was someone like Jason Gillespie or Matthew Hoggard. Trueman was more of a bowler but occasionally scored runs. Not the worst of man to have at #10.

Overall: I like the composition of the team. Long batting lineup and a set of deadly bowlers. One might think we are a bowler short but Miller, Jackson and Waugh are good enough to take care of the 4th and 5th bowler's slot.​
 

Sulaiman7

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My players : Wayne Phillips & Bert Ironmonger

I'll do the write-ups tomorrow. :thumbs

1. :bat: Geoff Boycott
2. :ar: Bob Sipmson
3. :bat: Allan Border :c:
4. :wkb: David Boon
5. :bat: Eddie Paynter
6. :ar: Bob Cowper
7. :wk: Wayne Phillips
8. :bwl: Bert Ironmonger
9. :bwl: Sydney Barnes
10. :bwl: Dennis Lillee
11. :bwl: George Lohmann
 

cricket_icon

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Couple of bargains :clap Almost picked Trumper instead of Bruce Reid. He has a massive reputation, deserved to be taken earlier... And in Warwick Armstrong you've not only bagged an underrated all-rounder, but perhaps the most successful Ashes captain - never lost a Test in charge and won 8 of his 10 Tests in charge.

yep :) I was surprised neither man was taken earlier, especially Trumper. I know both men don't have the most jaw dropping stats but for anyone who saw him, Trumper was one of the greatest and most attractive batsmen to watch. I like flowing, fluid batsmen, hence picking Gower and Stewart on a good day.

With Armstrong not only do I have an underrated allrounder but a great cricketing mind, perfect vice captain to Benaud's man in charge.

Now gona scan through other teams to see how I would have done against them.
 

sifter132

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Just popping in to post my picks - will clean up the thread tomorrow and post my writeups.

There were about 4 keepers that very difficult to split, and probably 5-10 choices of batsmen of various skills and abilities that I considered, but I ended up going back to the beginning and finishing up my team with a couple of the original 1877 Australian side: Jack Blackham and Charles Bannerman
 

Samuels

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Jack Blackham and Charles Bannerman

Blackham is an excellent pick. Good that Fred Spofforth is not in your team. :p I am a tad disappointed that you went for Bannerman. You should have grabbed a certain England opener of 1900s from Surrey or a certain middle order batsman former England captain from Worcestershire who played at around the same time.
 

Sulaiman7

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Wayne Phillips

107224.jpg


Ashes Stats

A mediocre player and an under-rated keeper-batsman, although he has a pretty average around 30. I had no choice left to pick but him , he was on the top of the remaining list. He was a great keeper instead , with 154 catches in 114 FC matches, he was an excellent FC player , as a pure wicket-keeper , his batting average is just brilliant.

Bert Ironmonger

57351.jpg


Ashes Stats

Bert Ironmonger , the best left arm orthodox for Australia was the greatest spinner of his era , he's the fourth oldest cricketer to make a test debut. He had a brief career but he proved himself in that , his records speak for themselves about him.
 

sifter132

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Blackham is an excellent pick. Good that Fred Spofforth is not in your team. :p

I had a wealth of choices at wicketkeeper, primarily looking at glovemanship. I shortlisted 4 - all Aussies:
*Rod Marsh, has the second most dismissals in Ashes history (just 4 behind Healy), and would be the best batsman of the remaining keepers.
*Don Tallon, the keeper Bradman chose in his all-time XI.
*Bert Oldfield, has the most stumpings in Ashes history and was regarded as absolutely brilliant with the gloves. Had an iconic moment in Ashes history when he was struck in the head while batting during the Bodyline series. That hit sparked the nastiness between the two countries really, up to that point the Aussies were copping it relatively well.

Instead I went back to the first ever Ashes Test where Australia selected 22 year old Jack Blackham, the bearded Victorian.

Jack Blackham

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For his abilities with the gloves, Blackham became known as the "prince of wicket-keepers". When WG Grace was asked who the greatest keeper he'd ever seen was, he answered, 'Don't be silly, there has only been one?Jack Blackham'. The Doctor described Blackham thusly:
His reliability as a wicket-keeper was marvellous. Clean, quick as lightning, and quiet, he stood as close to the wickets as the laws of cricket permit and took the fastest bowling with consummate ease. To stand up to Spofforth's fastest bowling was in itself an achievement, but to keep wicket
against the Demon without permitting a bye to pass was a phenomenal performance. The bats-man who stirred out of his ground when Blackham was at the wicket knew he had to hit the ball or his innings was over. There was no element of chance in Blackham's stumping ; it was a case of inevitability.

Blackham did 3 things to change the game: 1) he regularly stood up to the stumps to Demon Spofforth, the Australian's fastest bowler; 2) before Blackham the long stop was a standard position to ensure byes weren't expensive, but for Blackham it wasn't required - he was too efficient; 3) Blackham also perfected the art of taking the bails off in a quick, smooth motion. Not sure what they were doing before that :eek:...but that's what history tells me anyway!

_________________________________________________________________
I am a tad disappointed that you went for Bannerman. You should have grabbed a certain England opener of 1900s from Surrey or a certain middle order batsman former England captain from Worcestershire who played at around the same time.

I had too many options! My 5th specialist batsmen could have been anyone as Rhodes or Noble can open, so I was considering all sorts of names. Might as well mention them since it's the last pick:
*Clem Hill - contemporary of Victor Trumper who scored more runs at a better average than the legendary Trumper, even scored attractively and quickly, yet he doesn't get the same credit. But Fenil picked him :)
*Graham Gooch - he didn't play Alderman too well, and his first few Ashes series were awful, but eventually Gooch pulled himself together. In 3 separate Ashes series he scored 400+ runs at 50+ average. Not many players have done that.
*Douglas Jardine - if we're talking Ashes history, Jardine had a profound impact. Not so much with the bat though...averaging just 31.76 vs Australia - better than Brearley though :p
*David Steele - Steele is a great story...he was the mercenary Tony Greig drafted in to the 1975 series to bring some STEELE to the English batting. Looked like Santa Claus according to Jeff Thomson, but he did his job in his only series averaging 60 in his 3 Tests at the top of the order against probably the fastest pair of bowlers in history.
*Shane Watson - thought about looking for a batsman who could bowl a bit and discovered Watson has now passed 1000 Ashes runs...1093 runs @ 45.54 against England, 1 100 and 8 50s in his 13 Tests against them. Checked Adam Gilchrist's record vs England? 1083 runs @ 45.12. Watson's numbers are similar to Hayden (1461 runs @ 45.65) and Cook's (1541 runs @ 44.02) Ashes stats as well. Hasn't taken many Ashes wickets, but his tidy bowling has still been helpful.
There's a few other batsmen who could bowl a bit: Doug Walters, Ted Dexter and Basil D'Oliveira (who's a great story). And there were quite a few other names floating about too: Samuels has hinted at a couple of guys. Keith Stackpole was one, a few old players too.

In the end, I threw all those away and went right back to the man who scored the first run in Test cricket, and of course the first century - Charles Bannerman.

nla.pic-an9778126-v


Bannerman only played one innings of note in the Ashes...but what an innings! Arguably the greatest Ashes innings? Certainly should be in discussions. For starters, it was ground breaking. Even on the unofficial tours before that first Test in 1877, no one had ever scored a century against an English XI. Bannerman's innings showed that it was possible to score against the masters of cricket - big names of the time like Alfred Shaw and James Lillywhite. It can also be called the most dominating innings in Ashes history, given that Bannerman scored 67.35% of the team's runs (165 out of 245). Only Michael Slater's 123 out of 184 has come close (66.85%).

As a bonus, Wisden said that Bannerman was both an attractive batsman (using the front foot more than his contemporaries), and a brilliant fieldsman in any position. Plus he has awesome mutton chops, will definitely be a crowd favourite :D

So my XI ends up looking like this:
1 Charles Bannerman :bat: (239 runs @ 59.75)
2 Archie Jackson :bat: (350 runs @ 58.33)
3 Sir Donald Bradman :bat::c: (5028 runs @ 89.78)
4 Ken Barrington :bat: (2111 runs @ 63.96)
5 Dean Jones :bat: (1320 runs @ 50.76)
6 Monty Noble :ar: (1905 runs @ 30.72 & 115 wkts @ 24.86)
7 Wilfred Rhodes :ar: (1706 runs @ 31.01 & 109 wkts @ 24.00)
8 Jack Blackham :wk: (800 runs @ 15.68 & 39 dismissals)
9 Jim Laker :bwl: (79 wkts @ 18.27)
10 Sir Alec Bedser :bwl: (104 wkts @ 27.49)
11 Bruce Reid :bwl: (47 wkts @ 20.40)

Towards the end I have ended up picking guys I like or who have interesting stories eg. Jackson, Reid, Bannerman, as opposed to those who might have been better on paper. Ended up with 6 pre WW2 players! Pace attack is probably the weakest point (but I knew it would be after I picked 2 spinners). A fire breathing fast bowler somewhere in there to pair with Bedser would be great. Craig McDermott or Merv Hughes were there, even Gillespie or Gough, but I was always a big Bruce Reid fan.

Oh, and 12th man would have to be Gary Pratt :p
 
Last edited:

sifter132

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Added a poll to the thread, so drafters and readers can go and make their choice of the best XI :)
 

Fenil

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I knew there would be a 12th man to be picked. That is why I picked Hill over a bowler. My 12th man is Geoff Lawson, purely a wicket taking bowler.

Ashes Masters

:eng: :bat: Herbert Sutcliffe (2741 runs @ 66.85)
:aus: :bat: Bill Lawry (2233 runs @ 48.54)
:aus: :bat: Clem Hill (2660 runs @ 35.46)
:aus: :bat: Steve Waugh :c: (3173 runs @ 58.75)
:eng: :bat: KS Ranji (989 runs @ 44.95)
:eng: :ar: Stanley Jackson (1415 runs @48.79, 24 wickets @ 33.29)
:aus: :ar: Keith Miller (1511 runs @33.57, 87 wickets @ 22.4)
:aus: :wk: Brad Haddin (844 runs @36.69, 53 dismissals @ 2.12/innings)
:aus: :ar: Hugh Trumble (141 wickets @ 20.88)
:eng: :ar: Fred Trueman (79 wickets @ 25.3)
:eng: :bwl: Bob Willis (123 wickets @ 24.37)

:aus: :bwl: Geoff Lawson (97 wickets @ 28.48) (12th man)
 

sifter132

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^Haha, sneaky :p Yeah I thought ideally you'd have a work horse in there somewhere. Trueman, Willis and Miller were all aggressive, short spell guys, and were all in attacks with a steadier workhorse who bowled more overs: Trueman had Statham (and Lock and Laker); Willis had Botham and guys like Hendrick; Miller had Lindwall, and Johnston in particular bowled a lot while the opening bowlers rested.

I guess Trumble would be a pretty good workhorse though, and if your 3 quicks were on song then they probably wouldn't have to back up for spell after spell anyway. Plus there were not many great options later in the draft. Maurice Tate maybe? He could bat a bit as well. Maybe Merv Hughes or Graham MacKenzie. But yeah, Geoff Lawson did a good job in the Ashes - underrated bowler.
 

cricket_icon

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Great write up guys, especially the last couple from sifter. I gota do a couple more write ups, will do after exams....but now to vote for the best team mmmmm

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Just voted Aalay as having the best team, can't deny Botham, Warne, Chappel and KP.
 

Aalay

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Just voted Aalay as having the best team, can't deny Botham, Warne, Chappel and KP.

Yesss you absolute beautyyyyy.

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I was just wondering Sifter that for the draft members, we should not be allowed to vote for our own team but choose another member's team that we like the most. Just like how cricket icon did
 

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