Facing the facts of history - Windies greater than Aussies

I never said that Australia had a better pace bowling attack but Glenn McGrath was better then Malcom Marshall. Dominated in an era which produced the largest range of world-class batsman. McGrath also played like 40 more Test Matches then Marshall.

Langer may not be better then Haynes or Greenidge but the gap that between them and Matthew Hayden well and truly makes up for it.

Also IMO, Ponting is better then Sobers, Richards and Lara, although neither Lara and Sobers were apart of the Windies teams that dominated the 80s & 90s. The best batsman since Bradman.
 
I gotta say Australia's got all time best Pace Attack.McGrath and Brett Lee....

shubhrayu added 16 Minutes and 41 Seconds later...

Gilly Fan said:
Haha, 6 year streak of invincibility. :D
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Exactly Australia never lost in a match in a World Cup against a minnow team and the Windies lost to India in 83 Finals lol
 
I’m not really sure why this thread is still going.

We’ve won more World Cups.
We hold the records for best winning streaks in tests, one-dayers and the world cup.
We have a better head-to-head against them in both forms of the game.

/thread.
 
Considering Australia have won 24 of the last 30 ODIs between the two teams, it's surprising to find that the head to head favoured the West Indies until July this year.
 
aussie_ben91 said:
Ricky Ponting > Viv Richards
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Haha. That's the best thing you've ever said. Viv Richards is in my eyes one of the best batsmen to ever play the game, only surpassed by Don Bradman, Jack Hobbs, George Headley and Graeme Pollock. Viv revolutionised the game with his method of play, being the spearhead of the West Indies batting line-up, he was like Pietersen but far better. He had better hand-eye co-ordination than anyone to play the game. Ponting's stats may be better, but you have to look beyond the stats. Ponting's had the benefit of better bats, smaller boundaries, flatter pitches, decline in quality pace bowling, and the transition towards a more batsman friendly game. Viv played in the best era the games ever seen, and still managed to dominate. I'd have him over Ponting any day of the week, Sobers was miles better as well.

I'm not going to go into the Hayden-Greenidge/Haynes discussion again, as Ben just completely ignored everything said. Continuing to claim that fast bowlers of the time didn't bowl as fast as they claim, even though they were measured, and the Fast Bowler competition stats were given. For me, I'd rather have Greenidge and Haynes over Hayden and Langer as an opening pair, there's no competition for me.

Also Ben, there's no "_" in between King Pietersen. ;)
 
I thought there was no competition- the windies. No one shivers about Shane Warne and Mcgrath. Players cringe. Mention the Windies attack and you can feel the commentators shivering. Especially blokes like Border and Sunil Gavaskar who played them on a regular basis (and in many cases were successful). I was sitting next to an old Aussie in the Sydney test and he said that "he prayed for the Aussie batsman every ball and i'm the type to spit on a church mate". Lol you keep ignoring Marshall. He has an average of 20 with the ball. Mcgrath is not miles better than him- similar average. Greenidge and Haynes > Hayden and Langer, Gilchrist>Dujon, Ponting>Viv, WI bowlers> Aussie bowlers... S.waugh=Clive L.

Windies win. Don't forget pitches back then were far more difficult to bat on as well so people like Sobers, Viv and other batters have far lower averages.
 
There is no saying that anyone else from a different era (barring Bradman) would've had more success then Ponting if they had've played in the current era. Neither Tendulkar or Lara could so I doubt that the likes of Graeme Pollock, Jack Hobbs or George Headley or anyone else would've had more success then him.
Ponting's such a talented batsman that I think that if he had've been brought up in any era then he would've adjusted to the conditions perfectly.
Don't bother that Ponting had the advantage with bats and small grounds. I for one, bet that Viv Richards played on smaller grounds in Jamacia then what Ponting does in Australia and that bats have only been more of an advantage to batsman over the past 3-4 years.

Although I maintain that the bowlers of 30+ years ago aren't as fast as modern bowlers. I've seen videos of them bowling and compared them with modern bowlers and I reckon Jeff Thomson rarely (if ever) bowled at over 90mph. I bet he was at about 87mph at his peak.
Bowling fulltosses in a gimmick fast bowling competition isn't going to decrease the speed of the ball very much, especially when the bowler is bowling the bowl from only 22 yards away.

Hayden is far better then Gordon Greenidge or Desmond Haynes. Hayden dominated in India (according to modern players is the hardest place to tour in world cricket) in 2001 and then went to South Africa in 2002 and destroyed Shaun Pollock and ended Allan Donald's career and furthmore became ranked the best batsman in the world. He followed that up by smashing 300 in a match against England at the GABBA, which is one of the most dicest pitches in Australia for Opening Batsman, along side the WACCA.
Bowlers of the modern era haven't been as good as the ones in the past because of batsman like Hayden who never allowed them to settle from the word go.
 
Warne may be better than any other Windies spinner (Although Ramdhin, Valentine and Gibbs were all pretty good), but I'd prefer the Windies batting and pace attack over the Aussies in a heartbeat. Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh, Garner, Holding, Roberts, Hall, Croft, Gray...it's just legendary. McGrath, Lee, Gillespie, Clark...apart from McGrath they don't even come close. But for past bowlers, Lillee, Alderman, Thompson come to mind, all just as great.
Then there is the batting. Richards is an all time great, and I guarantee you he'll be remembered far more than Ponting. He is a legend right know, despite having last played just a decade ago. I mean, he has been knighted for Gods sake. I don't think Ponting will ever be knighted.

As for comparing him to Lara and Sobers. Pah. Good luck. You'll have a tough time arguing that case to ANY cricket fan in the world. You might be the 0.01% of the cricket following population who would rather have Punter over Lara or Sobers in their team.

And the rest of the comparision are rubbish too. Hayden and Langer are no way better than Greendidge and Haynes. You were statistically and otherwise proven wrong. If you believe so, fine, but don't try to argue that belief. You like them better is one thing, trying to convince people they are better is another.


BTW Sammy, don't post whole articles next time, just a quote and link to the article.
 
aussie_ben91 said:
I never said that Australia had a better pace bowling attack but Glenn McGrath was better then Malcom Marshall. Dominated in an era which produced the largest range of world-class batsman. McGrath also played like 40 more Test Matches then Marshall.

Langer may not be better then Haynes or Greenidge but the gap that between them and Matthew Hayden well and truly makes up for it.

Also IMO, Ponting is better then Sobers, Richards and Lara, although neither Lara and Sobers were apart of the Windies teams that dominated the 80s & 90s. The best batsman since Bradman.
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its not like Marshall was bowling at me and you ben. If you consider Ambrose better than McGrath than certainly Marshall is too, Marshall was more a bowler like McGrath than other West Indies bowlers who scared batsman with their pace. Marshall like McGrath relied on his accuracy and ability to move the ball and if Marshall isn't better than McGrath than at least they are equals.

Also the WI never dominated during the 90s, it was during the 70s and 80s and Sobers played until 74 so technically he can still be counted in. and its your opinion and I cant argue it but check Sobers stats, he played on uncovered pitches unlike Ponting and modern day batsman who play on a lot of flat tracks.


shubhrayu said:
I gotta say Australia's got all time best Pace Attack.McGrath and Brett Lee....
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Ambrose, Marshall and Walsh are better than any 3 pace bowlers Australia had since McGrath started playing. check the stats man.
 
Holding, Garner, Marshall and Roberts > any bowling attack to ever play the game. Smashes McGrath, Warne, Kasprowicz and Gillespie out of the water.
 
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