India's debacle in overseas Tests against top teams

[VC the slogger]

This year would have been a perfect year for Indian Cricket as we all must have imagined after India won the 2011 Cricket World Cup.But sadly it has not been so.India has deteriorated considerably in Tests since the departure of Gary Kirsten after the World Cup and appointment of Duncan Fletcher as coach.India were expected to thrash the West Indies in the Test series in the Caribbean but they beat them modestly without any dazzling performances in that series.Their next target was to beat England in England who were very well prepared for the 4 match Test series but India wasn't.They were overconfident about winning and Tendulkar's 100th century in international cricket and performed poorly in the warm-up game against Somerset which was drawn.They went on to lose the first Test also and eventually all 4 Tests and the defeat margin kept getting bigger(lost by 196 runs in 1st Test,319 runs in the 2nd Test,innings and 242 runs in the 3rd Test and by an innings and 8 runs in the 4th Test).Only once in the series did India manage to score 300 whereas England consistently piled up the runs and took 20 wickets in each Test and also scored a record total of 710/7 declared in the 3rd Test in which Alastair Cook scored 294,which was higher than the totals put up by India in the first 3 Tests.They also went on to lose the 5-match ODI series 3-0(1 Tie,1 NR).During the England tour several of India's top players like Zaheer Khan,Yuvraj Singh,Harbhajan Singh were ruled out due to injury.Virender Sehwag who had recovered from an injury during IPL 2011 played the 3rd and 4th Tests performed poorly and scored a King Pair in the 3rd Test.Most people said that this series was lost due to injury problems of players and that the team would come back strongly in the next overseas tour of Australia.This time the injury management improved and experienced stars like Zaheer Khan,Sehwag,Tendulkar were all fit to play.India are renown as poor starters in overseas conditions but were favourites to win the Boxing Day Test in the MCG against an Australian side with top players like Shane Watson,Pat Cummins,Ryan Harris out with injury.India went on to lose the 1st Test by 122 runs which is now a cause of concern as their main players were fit this time.The bowling was good with Zaheer Khan,Umesh Yadav and Ishant Sharma picking up wickets but the batsmen failed again and the field settings for tailenders were too defensive and they scored easy runs.All these cost India the match and Austalia got a 1-0 lead in the series.Now their winning this series too seems to be in doubt.......

 

[SaiSrini]

Some formatting would do that post a lot better. Also for a serious debate about India's debacle, stop posting laughing smileys that puts off people from wanting to get into the debate.

Somehow, I feel MS Dhoni seems to be lacking the fire in him to propel India forward. I seem to feel this a lot stronger by seeing the way he reacts even to memorable victories. For example take the World Cup final. We saw his reaction after hitting the winning shot. The same old underplayed reaction, maybe a bit more smile on his face. Even for CSK's IPL wins, he is stone faced. When was the last time you saw Dhoni showing a little bit of emotion on the field? A passionate guy even if he is trying to underplay his emotions on the field will have some moment or the other where his emotions overcome himself. But Dhoni doesnt seem to bring it out at all, which makes me think the passion in him for cricket is seriously lacking. The Dhoni that leapt in the air during India's T20 cup win in 2007 is missing.

What I am trying to say is, Dhoni's laid back attitude and his defensive mindset is probably not letting India realize their potential. His method works in ODI's, but in tests, you need a better captain than him to handle the team especially for overseas challenges.

 

[VC the slogger]

This is the guy who led India into the no1 test ranking in 2009 and maintained it till that England debacle.I think he has got too much used to captaining in ODI,T20s for India and CSK.I think he'll be fine and needs some ideas from former captains like Ganguly and Kumble.After the World Cup win this thing has started.I hope they respond well in the Sydney Test and do way with their critics.....I hope so.....

 

[sifter132]

Just on Dhoni: it could be related to other thread we had recently - Dhoni already thinking and talking about retirement plans. I think he's getting burned out, and that lack of passion is playing out on the field. I mentioned the fairly muted and lazy Indian appeals in another thread - they need to be all over the Aussie batsmen because their bowling deserved to be backed up in the field.

I wonder too if it's a team balance thing- is there one too many 'old' players in there? Maybe a younger player would be hungrier, perhaps not as skilled yes, but they might provide a spark the team needs. I remember a young Michael Clarke joining a quite old Aussie team in 2004 and it seemed to give some more energy on the field.

 

[SaiSrini]

Dhoni needs to open up, start getting back his old aggression that made him the superstar in his initial years. He needs to enjoy his cricket and needs to display more emotion on the field (not for the heck of doing it, but because it means his aggression is coming back). Somebody has given him the wrong advice that aggression is not a good thing. He has adopted it in every area of his personality and it has affected his game too.

 

[cricket_icon]

My personal take on "India's oversees debacle" is that first and foremost, they lack any real pace attack and have done so for a very long time, in fact their entire cricketing history. Zaheer Khan has been a great servant to the game but his getting on a bit and never really had fear giving pace behind him, even in his younger days.

Ishant Sharma has been up and down, he getst ired rather quickly and seems to rely far too much on his shorter ball doing the job, which will not work all the time. Yadav has seemed promising thus far but the juries still out on him. Everyone else is just piss poor.

The batting is the second biggest concern that India have right now, the aging greats have all started to lose form and there is noone out there to replace them with. I'm sure Tendulkar's efforts over the last 2 years will keep in the team till atleast the end of 2012, Dravid has done well and had his best year of cricket gaed 38. The same can not be said for Laxman, Sehwag isn't dominant as often away from home and Gambhir is not pulling his wait.

Rehane impressed me in the England series and should be selected again sooner rather than later. Kohli hasn't lived up to his ODI form in tests and this is extremely worrying because he seems the most promising out of India's young guns.

If all that wasn't enough, Dhoni's batting form hasn't been stellar in tests and his captaincy is not good enough for him to rely on it as a sole form of selection. phew.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

i think it's just lack of drive.

they just don't seem capable of maintaining intensity any more, you have to ask yourself, what is getting laxman, dravid and tendulkar out of bed these days? I suppose sachin has this 100th 100 thing, but really, that's just a 53rd test ton, it's nothing that special. been no.1, finally toppled australia, won the world cup.

they need fresh blood, the BCCI has poorly managed the younger players in just having one spot for 5 or 6 players to fight for. need to give these young guys an indian team they are a part of.

india have home series against england and australia and the end of the year, while I'm sure revenge might be nice, this would be the appropriate series to test the mettle of the next generation. give them the favourable home conditions to compete with the stronger nations, don't let the current middle order hog it for a swan song.

 

[sifter132]

Yeah actually I'd be tempted to drop the big 3 from overseas tours and give their spots specifically to younger players who need the experience on the different wickets. If Dravid, Laxman and Tendulkar want to play on at home then that's cool, but India need a way to expose their players to overseas conditions more frequently. Maybe it's letting their 'A' team play in the domestic competition of another country eg. England Lions playing in the West Indies.

 

[Rehan_24]

It isnt about captaincy. Its always tough to perform in Australia for the Sub-continent teams simply because the players from that area love to play in flat and dead tracks and when it comes fast tracks they get expose badly

 

[mrtwisties]

If I was you guys I'd focus on bowling captaincy and fightback "heart", critical areas where the team has been falling down. Keep the same batters and fix those things and you'll be doing well again soon enough.

 

[VC the slogger]

I think it may be something because of Duncan Fletcher.Since he took over as coach India has performed poorly overseas.Maybe he doesn't make them practice properly or something.When he was England coach they won the Ashes 2005 but lost the Ashes 2006/07 in Australia 5-0 and played poorly in World Cup 2007.There must be something wrong with that guy...

 

[Gaurav_7]

Yeah, that is absolutely spot on! He goes to bat out for our players, bowls for them and fields, right?

 

[shravi]

Yeah, that is absolutely spot on! He goes to bat out for our players, bowls for them and fields, right?

No, he doesn't and I wouldn't go as far as to suggest that he has been a primary influence but India just haven't looked the same since he's come in (West Indies away, England away, West Indies home and now Australia away). It doesn't look as though there's a rapport between himself and Dhoni that even comes close to matching the one Dhoni had with Kirsten. Against South Africa last year, we were destroyed in the first match but showed fighting spirit in the 2nd and 3rd tests. This team seems to give up too easily and doesn't seem to want to put in the hard yards and their shoulders drop far too soon.

 

[Gaurav_7]

So, that's to do with the coach? I don't think so. To me it seems, the players just don't have that drive anymore. And, that surely cannot be related to the coach.

 

[shravi]

So, that's to do with the coach? I don't think so. To me it seems, the players just don't have that drive anymore. And, that surely cannot be related to the coach.

I think you are mistaking the coach's role to be limited to training. It also relates to the overall mood in the camp, confidence, drive, etc. You could argue that it's not the coach's role to oversee all that and that you shouldn't put two and two together, but I never noticed it during Kirsten's time. Also, note that I said it may not be a "primary influence".