The Curse of the 2005 Ashes?

[RoboRocks]

I think we need consistent selections, the keeper particularly who keeps chopping and changing. Hopefully we keep the same guys who have been playing recently since we have a decent team on paper. We just need performances from those players.

 

[aussie_ben91]

I think losing 5-0 in the Ashes scared England more then it scared us losing the Ashes in 2005 after 18 years of dominance.

 

[m_vaughan]

Strauss - Still there. (Still there)
Trescothik - Gone. (Stress and Fatigue)
Vaughn - Out of form, some England fans want him out. (Best Test captain in the world in terms of decision making and intelligence)
Bell - Still there. (Superstar)
G. Jones - Gone. (Last WK to have an impact, batted most convincingly)
Flintoff - on a comeback trial, was gone for a long time, and was seriously out of form (with the bat)/injured for a long time.. (Was out due to injury only, one of the finest cricketers ever, matchwinner)
Pietersen - Still there (World class)
Harmison - Gone. (Only who died out completely)
S. Jones - Gone. (Again was out due to injury and is expected to come back soon)
Giles (crap) - Gone. (Retired and replaced by a better spinner - King Monty)

m_vaughan added 2 Minutes and 14 Seconds later...

I think losing 5-0 in the Ashes scared England more then it scared us losing the Ashes in 2005 after 18 years of dominance.

Not true, not the first time that England have hopelessly outplayed by Australia, and I thought even though they did lose 5-0, they played better than previous tours but the Australians were hurt after losing in 2005 that everyone was performing at over 100%.

2009 will be a cracker.

 

[Cricketdude]

Not true, not the first time that England have hopelessly outplayed by Australia, and I thought even though they did lose 5-0, they played better than previous tours but the Australians were hurt after losing in 2005 that everyone was performing at over 100%.

2009 will be a cracker.

Just to let you know you cant beat 5-0.

 

[Insomniac]

Theres something interesting about the team after the 2005 Ashes.

The 2005 Ashes team's first test assignment was the tour to Pakistan.

The first test match, Vaughan was out with injury, and Trescothick captained the side (not a major loss as far as Vaughan's batting is concerned)

However, the 2nd and 3rd test matches were pretty much England's Ashes XI, but they all failed in Paksitan.

1. Marcus Trescothick
2. Andrew Strauss
3. Michael Vaughan (captain)
4. Ian Bell
5. Kevin Pietersen
6. Andrew Flintoff
7. Geraint Jones (wicketkeeper)
8. Ashley Giles
9. Matthew Hoggard
10. Steve Harmison
11. Liam Plunkett

Only one change from the Ashes-winning side, Plunkett in for Simon Jones.

Not too sure what to say about those results, because the 2005 Ashes team did not live up to expectations in Pakistan.

 

[smssia0112]

Strauss - Still there. (Still there)
Trescothik - Gone. (Stress and Fatigue)
Vaughn - Out of form, some England fans want him out. (Best Test captain in the world in terms of decision making and intelligence)
Bell - Still there. (Superstar)
G. Jones - Gone. (Last WK to have an impact, batted most convincingly)
Flintoff - on a comeback trial, was gone for a long time, and was seriously out of form (with the bat)/injured for a long time.. (Was out due to injury only, one of the finest cricketers ever, matchwinner)
Pietersen - Still there (World class)
Harmison - Gone. (Only who died out completely)
S. Jones - Gone. (Again was out due to injury and is expected to come back soon)
Giles (crap) - Gone. (Retired and replaced by a better spinner - King Monty)

m_vaughan added 2 Minutes and 14 Seconds later...



Not true, not the first time that England have hopelessly outplayed by Australia, and I thought even though they did lose 5-0, they played better than previous tours but the Australians were hurt after losing in 2005 that everyone was performing at over 100%.

2009 will be a cracker.

Yes, they had been thrashed before, but this was a very different side to the ones that had previously faced Australia, young guys like Cook, Panesar, Collingwood (not young but was his first Ashes), Anderson, Sajid Mahmood and others like Bell and Pietersen who had won their first Ashes, would've had a lot of confidence hurt with a 5-0 win on their first tour of Australia. The reason they were able to win in 2005 was confidence, they hadn't experienced the losses that their predecessors had, and were excited for the challenge. Then Australia came out with their absolute top cricket and blew England out of the water from the word go.

 

[Sureshot]

I think losing 5-0 in the Ashes scared England more then it scared us losing the Ashes in 2005 after 18 years of dominance.

Do you mean scarred?

G. Jones - Gone. (Last WK to have an impact, batted most convincingly)

No, Prior has been the most convincing batsman of all the keepers since Stewart. He has a better batting record as keeper than Stewart did. About 35 for Stewart with the gloves on. Yup, averaged 34.92 as keeper. Played 51 tests as a batsman alone. The thing with Stewart was he was so consistent, he had one 'season' averaging under 35.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/20372.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting

We've tried to replace him, that's been the problem. You can't replace a player like him. Just like how Australia won't replace McGrath or Warne.

 

[Insomniac]

Do you mean scarred?



No, Prior has been the most convincing batsman of all the keepers since Stewart. He has a better batting record as keeper than Stewart did. About 35 for Stewart with the gloves on. Yup, averaged 34.92 as keeper. Played 51 tests as a batsman alone. The thing with Stewart was he was so consistent, he had one 'season' averaging under 35.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/20372.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting

We've tried to replace him, that's been the problem. You can't replace a player like him. Just like how Australia won't replace McGrath or Warne.

I'm not too sure about McGrath - Clark is on his heals.

I do agree about Warne - really struggling to replace him with somebody half of the capabilities of Warne.

I suppouse MacGill or Hogg would have made decent replacements, but of course both retired.

 

[Cricketman]

England's best bet in terms of keeping is concerned is to find a pure wicket keeper, in tests at least. Someone who's great with the gloves, stop looking for a Gilchrist or Dhoni. Get in Read?

 

[Will_NA]

Read can't bat at all. He's made one 50 in 15 matches. We don't need a Gilchrist, we need a competent keeper that can average 30 with the bat.

 

[evertonfan]

England's best bet in terms of keeping is concerned is to find a pure wicket keeper, in tests at least. Someone who's great with the gloves, stop looking for a Gilchrist or Dhoni. Get in Read?

The thing is, this is the modern game. And in this modern game wicket keepers need to be able to bat. It's a fact of the game these days. Chris Read has had his chances and is not capable of performing at Test level. We finally thought we'd cracked the problem with Prior who's batting looked excellent only for Ryan Sidebottom to expose his weakness of keeping to left armers.

 

[Sureshot]

I'm not too sure about McGrath - Clark is on his heals.

I do agree about Warne - really struggling to replace him with somebody half of the capabilities of Warne.

I suppouse MacGill or Hogg would have made decent replacements, but of course both retired.

Stuart Clark is an excellent bowler, and he will be a key part of their Ashes defence next summer. But he is no McGrath.

England's best bet in terms of keeping is concerned is to find a pure wicket keeper, in tests at least. Someone who's great with the gloves, stop looking for a Gilchrist or Dhoni. Get in Read?

Problem is Cricketman. Read played in the ICL, if he was picked by England, all tours with India would get suspended, and you can bet they wouldn't let any Indian play in domestic cricket. Read gave up his England career in search of money. That's a fact. Be it right or wrong, it isn't for me to judge.

 

[adyhorn]

England's best bet in terms of keeping is concerned is to find a pure wicket keeper, in tests at least. Someone who's great with the gloves, stop looking for a Gilchrist or Dhoni. Get in Read?

Agreed. I was reading in the Wisden about who should get the gloves. They worked out net contribution by taking away how many runs dropped catches or missed stumpings leaked as well as the number of byes conceded from thier averages. Read has the best net contribution since Stewart with 18.21. He costs an average 3.25 runs per test.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

Solanki can be a keeper. Why not give him a go? England should just get a young keeper and get him settled in as England keeper. I doubt they can be worse than the current keepers.

 

[Cricketman]

Stuart Clark is an excellent bowler, and he will be a key part of their Ashes defence next summer. But he is no McGrath.



Problem is Cricketman. Read played in the ICL, if he was picked by England, all tours with India would get suspended, and you can bet they wouldn't let any Indian play in domestic cricket. Read gave up his England career in search of money. That's a fact. Be it right or wrong, it isn't for me to judge.

Then England should give the big F-U to the BCCI.

In the end, the BCCI are looking for money. If they cancel a big tour like England, they'd be losing millions of rupees. Eventually the Indian players will protest as well, and soon they'd be allowed to play county cricket again.