TumTum
International Cricketer
Because as I said, Dennis was huge in Australia and has already been remembered for many years. I doubt McGrath will achieve the same thing.
Was Dennis Lillee really that great?
- Thread starter Bublu Bhuyan
- Start date
Because as I said, Dennis was huge in Australia and has already been remembered for many years. I doubt McGrath will achieve the same thing.
King Pietersen
ICC Board Member
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2006
- Location
- Manchester
A few more things to add about the great man, having just watched the ESPN Legends of Cricket dvd about him. What hasn't been mentioned here is that he had a year and a half out of the game due to a serious back injury. He was diagnosed with 3 stress fractures in his back, but continued to bowl in nets before ending up with a 4th. His bad was severely damaged, but he put the hard work in, he dedicated himself to a strength and conditioning programme and then came back an even better bowler. When he burst onto the scene in 71 he was a genuine quick bowler of the highest order, as quick as you could imagine, but when he returned he wasn't quite as quick, but he had guile and variety. He could mix his pace, had an excellent slower ball and bowled some of the most beautiful leg-cutters you could ever wish to see, which made him a real handful on flat wickets. Lillee never gave up either, he was always coming at the batsman. He was capable of bowling long spells of extremely accurate, fast bowling. He was a brilliant bowler.
What also needs to be mentioned is the way he's regarded by the other fast bowlers and professionals of the time. Richard Hadlee considers Dennis Lillee his idol and someone that really helped his own bowling. Malcolm Marshall turned to Dennis Lillee on his first tour and was keen to learn from Lillee the art of getting the ball to swing away and cut in. Ian Botham regards him as the greatest bowler he's ever seen. David Gower said Lillee was easily the best bowler he ever faced. Those sentiments hold far more credence than Cricinfo's Statsguru that's for sure. He was a truely great bowler, but a great man too. Paul Allott tells a story of how Dennis Lillee approached him after he'd made his debut and congratulated him on making his debut and commented on how well he'd bowled. This came completely out of the blue too. He may have been fierce and fiery on the field, but from all reports he's a fine man off the field. Dennis Lillee is far and away my fast bowling idol, one of the truely great cricketers.
What also needs to be mentioned is the way he's regarded by the other fast bowlers and professionals of the time. Richard Hadlee considers Dennis Lillee his idol and someone that really helped his own bowling. Malcolm Marshall turned to Dennis Lillee on his first tour and was keen to learn from Lillee the art of getting the ball to swing away and cut in. Ian Botham regards him as the greatest bowler he's ever seen. David Gower said Lillee was easily the best bowler he ever faced. Those sentiments hold far more credence than Cricinfo's Statsguru that's for sure. He was a truely great bowler, but a great man too. Paul Allott tells a story of how Dennis Lillee approached him after he'd made his debut and congratulated him on making his debut and commented on how well he'd bowled. This came completely out of the blue too. He may have been fierce and fiery on the field, but from all reports he's a fine man off the field. Dennis Lillee is far and away my fast bowling idol, one of the truely great cricketers.
^Well he's known here in Australia as "the great man" or "the great Dennis Lillee". Legend and top bloke. Discovered Mitchell Johnson and has worked with Shane Watson and Brett Lee on remodelling actions. Well he's worked with hundreds and thousands of kids and players really. Has a great passion for fast bowling.
And I gotta agree with TumTum, I think he'll be remembered a little more than McGrath - which I don't think is fair. McGrath was overshadowed a bit by Warne and didn't deserve to be as McGrath is one of the greatest bowlers ever IMHO.
And I gotta agree with TumTum, I think he'll be remembered a little more than McGrath - which I don't think is fair. McGrath was overshadowed a bit by Warne and didn't deserve to be as McGrath is one of the greatest bowlers ever IMHO.
sami ullah khan
Panel of Selectors
I have not seen Lillee bowl but I have seen Mcgrath. I don"t think we can really compare the two due to different eras they played in. Personally though, I am a huge fan of Pidge :hpraise:hpraise.
rahuldravidfan
International Cricketer
- Joined
- May 14, 2008
- Online Cricket Games Owned
I haven't seen much of Malcomn Marshall or Dennis Lillee or the other 2 names mentioned there. I have however seen the reruns of Imran Khan's exploits. And I must say, I liked what I saw.
As for the stats, the info you shared hints that Lillee was overrated. And he certainly was a legend in Australia and England.
rahuldravidfan added 3 Minutes and 42 Seconds later...
Personal choice - I'll pick Marshall over Lillee.
As for the stats, the info you shared hints that Lillee was overrated. And he certainly was a legend in Australia and England.
rahuldravidfan added 3 Minutes and 42 Seconds later...
Personal choice - I'll pick Marshall over Lillee.
TumTum
International Cricketer
You are too funny to be real RDF. This is your brain process:
1- Acknowledge the fact that you know nothing about what you are about to say.
2- Then somehow come to a certain conclusion.
3- If it isn't anti-australian, return to step 2.
4- Touch up your answer so it doesn't seem that offensive.
5- If your step 4 doesn't make any sense, continue.
6- Conclude your point, whilst at the same time highlighting step 2.
7- Put a Smilie at the end of your post.
Robelinda
International Coach
Some massive facepalm momets in this thread!
StinkyBoHoon
National Board President
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
- Location
- Glasgow, Scotland
the lillee/sub-continent is pretty hard to take on, 4 tests isn't enough, but he also never played india who, with gavaskar, viswanath and vengsarkar, would have been the toughest sub-continent batting line-up to take on. Not really worth getting into for my money.
I would still put him 5th on the greatest fast-bowlers list, which isn't exactly a slur against him. The man was a great.
I would still put him 5th on the greatest fast-bowlers list, which isn't exactly a slur against him. The man was a great.
angryangy
ICC Chairman
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2004
In that context, if you pick a player like that to bat at 9 or 10 like Lillee, then his batting has no relevance. As a genuine all-rounder, Imran Khan batted most of his innings and importantly played his best, at 7 or above. It is like saying Imran was a better batsman than Jeff Dujon.
However, the point of stats ignores the importance of practicality that I think people have been trying to get across in this thread. Their career stats are within 90% of each other. So if we do something like drop records against the developing Sri Lankans, who barely even played in the 80s, it's enough to change the shape of the statistics. While there are more trivial arguments, that's certainly what it tends towards.
drainpipe32
Chairman of Selectors
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2008
- Online Cricket Games Owned
That's just stupid, it's like saying McGrath isn't a great fast bowler because he couldn't bat.
Why would you pick a fast bowler based on whether he can bat?
Why would you pick a fast bowler based on whether he can bat?
Dare
Chairman of Selectors
Well khalek was looking at the overall cricketer not just the bowler thats the reason he said everyone would take Imran over Lille and I don't think anyone would disagree. He did miss the point of the thread and that its only comparing them as bowlers.
Of the 5 bowlers that Bablu mentioned I would rate 4 of them better then Lille. The only one that I wouldn't rate better then him would be Holding but Holding wouldn't be that far off. Got to say that Lille and Holding have the 2 most beautiful bowling actions I have seen and if I was building a perfect bowler their bowling actions would be the ones I would choose.
Of the 5 bowlers that Bablu mentioned I would rate 4 of them better then Lille. The only one that I wouldn't rate better then him would be Holding but Holding wouldn't be that far off. Got to say that Lille and Holding have the 2 most beautiful bowling actions I have seen and if I was building a perfect bowler their bowling actions would be the ones I would choose.
Robelinda
International Coach
Well, lots and lots of guys who are much older than me and saw ALL of Lillee's career would all say he was completely magnificent. On this forum almost no-one has seen Lillee bowl live, heck most of the posters here havent even seen McGrath's whole career, all you have is scorecards and stats, which tell some of the story but not all of it, you will naturally go for the guy you have seen the most live. You cannot discount the WSC years, not a single person who saw or played those 2 years would tell you that it was anything other than the toughest cricket of their lives.
I'm not saying Lillee wasnt great, but I almost always think these types of threads are an utter waste of time and end up achieving nothing at all. Now, there are other places on the internet where you get some serious discussion between guys who lived through the 70's and know ALL the facts, not just ones looked up on cricinfo by a 13 year old.
I'm not saying Lillee wasnt great, but I almost always think these types of threads are an utter waste of time and end up achieving nothing at all. Now, there are other places on the internet where you get some serious discussion between guys who lived through the 70's and know ALL the facts, not just ones looked up on cricinfo by a 13 year old.
