Who's the next-best batsman after Bradman?

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Satan666

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Rahul Dravid has also gone past 250 once,he made 270 against Pakistan in Pakistan.Ricky Ponting also made 257 against India in Australia.Also Sachin's best of 248* came against Bangladesh and i would certainly want him to score atleast 1 more run and erase that best score against Bangladesh which looks to me as a very dull part in his bright career.

Surprisingly Lara always made more runs in less inns than Sachin till the 10000 mark in which they both got there with same number of inns, with Bangladesh's entry into test cricket Sachin's rate of scoring started to increase, no wonder his highest is against the minnows Bangladesh.

I agree Dravid never played selfishly was always a team person and a better batsman than Tendulkar.

Tendulkar has been accused of cheating and being dishonest also,lets not forget the SA tour in 2001 in which the cameras caught him rubbing his fingers along the seam of the ball, he was banned for the third test, till the angry Indians overpowered the ICC into revoking his ban, blaming the match referee for making the correct decision.

All these factors when guaged supports the argument as to why Sachin is far from being a top class batsman.
 

vaibhavtewatia

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Tendulkar has been accused of cheating and being dishonest also,lets not forget the SA tour in 2001 in which the cameras caught him rubbing his fingers along the seam of the ball, he was banned for the third test, till the angry Indians overpowered the ICC into revoking his ban, blaming the match referee for making the correct decision.

Get your facts right there, ball tampering was never an issue until then tbh, it was a trend followed by most of the cricketers. This incident just made cricketers more aware that they could be caught doing these things.
If I remember, 6 Indian cricketers were punished, whereas Sachin's ban was lifted, and if you could recall, the SAF board itself sided with the BCCI against the referee.

It's sad to see how you are disgracing the a player's career by calling him a cheat, regards an incident or two. Posting one fact about Lara doesn't help your case, this actually seems a thread where you are curious to talk shite rather than prove your point. And the fact is, you don't like Lara , you just hate Tendulkar.
So let it be.
 
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Satan666

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Get your facts right there, ball tampering was never an issue until then tbh, it was a trend followed by most of the cricketers. This incident just made cricketers more aware that they could be caught doing these things.

So you accept he did tampered with the ball then. Look at this video by good old robelinda:

The day India bought the ICC -the incident that changed Indian cricket forever- Mike Denness 2001 - YouTube

At 5:38, Tony Greig (RIP) ''I cannot believe that anyone sees that footage could possibly defend him, (Sachin).''

Edit

Oh and Vaibad I there are more videos on youtube showing Sachin cheating, remember the false catch he claimed against Dravid in the IPL, thankfully video replays gave Dravid not out.
 
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zeustrojanstark

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@Vaibhav:I would never forgive Tendulkar for falsely appealing a catch against Rahul Dravid where the replays showed that it was clearly a ground catch.You speak about Sachin so much even in the other forum and you really dint accept Rahul Dravid can play a pull.You dont call 666 as a Sachin Hater,rather call yourself as a person who cant accept Sachin's mistakes.I love Sachin very much but just records cant mean he is any better than Rahul Dravid.Hail Rahul Dravid :thumbs
 

SaiSrini

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Is this thread about "Who is the better sportsman" or "batsman"?

And coming to the "sportsman", Dravid is no saint. He has once been pulled up for applying lozenges on the ball. Now don't come in and say he did it by mistake and all (he didn't know, etc). At that time, he was an experienced cricketer, and he should be knowing that applying other substances on the ball is illegal.

Well if you talk about appealing for catches, then Gilchrist who is one of the finest and one of the most graceful sportsman in recent times, appealed for catches in that infamous 2008 Sydney test when Dravid didn't clearly nick it. We all went through those replays umpteen times. But yet, we call Gilchrist a fine and graceful sportsman. I didn't see that catch which Tendulkar appealed for, but in the heat of the moment, people might make mistakes.

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@Vaibhav:I would never forgive Tendulkar for falsely appealing a catch against Rahul Dravid where the replays showed that it was clearly a ground catch.You speak about Sachin so much even in the other forum and you really dint accept Rahul Dravid can play a pull.You dont call 666 as a Sachin Hater,rather call yourself as a person who cant accept Sachin's mistakes.I love Sachin very much but just records cant mean he is any better than Rahul Dravid.Hail Rahul Dravid :thumbs

Dravid might be more of a match winner, but just winning more matches can't mean he is a better batsman than Tendulkar. Hail Sachin Tendulkar!:thumbs
 

zeustrojanstark

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Is this thread about "Who is the better sportsman" or "batsman"?

And coming to the "sportsman", Dravid is no saint. He has once been pulled up for applying lozenges on the ball. Now don't come in and say he did it by mistake and all (he didn't know, etc). At that time, he was an experienced cricketer, and he should be knowing that applying other substances on the ball is illegal.

Well if you talk about appealing for catches, then Gilchrist who is one of the finest and one of the most graceful sportsman in recent times, appealed for catches in that infamous 2008 Sydney test when Dravid didn't clearly nick it. We all went through those replays umpteen times. But yet, we call Gilchrist a fine and graceful sportsman. I didn't see that catch which Tendulkar appealed for, but in the heat of the moment, people might make mistakes.

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Dravid might be more of a match winner, but just winning more matches can't mean he is a better batsman than Tendulkar. Hail Sachin Tendulkar!:thumbs

Tendulkar might have better records,but just having better records cant make him a better batsman than Dravid.Hail Rahul Dravid!And that incident was just he was shining the ball and it came in an unintentional manner,when on earth have tendulkar fans accepted other players worth?I even come up of morons and jerks who say he is better than Bradman.
The people who hate sachin mainly hate him because of his fans who just cant accept that there are better players.Statistics are just like mini skirts as Sidhu once said.Learn to appreciate others who are better than your player.A request to sachin fans!

And Sai should probably get the award for the first person in the earth to call Dravid not a gentleman.Pity on you mate!
 
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AbhishekS

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Dravid might be more of a match winner, but just winning more matches can't mean he is a better batsman than Tendulkar. Hail Sachin Tendulkar!

2969902360106221339S425x425Q85.jpg
 

SaiSrini

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Tendulkar might have better records,but just having better records cant make him a better batsman than Dravid.Hail Rahul Dravid!And that incident was just he was shining the ball and it came in an unintentional manner,when on earth have tendulkar fans accepted other players worth?I even come up of morons and jerks who say he is better than Bradman.
The people who hate sachin mainly hate him because of his fans who just cant accept that there are better players.Statistics are just like mini skirts as Sidhu once said.Learn to appreciate others who are better than your player.A request to sachin fans!

And Sai should probably get the award for the first person in the earth to call Dravid not a gentleman.Pity on you mate!

I said "Dravid is no saint" when the discussion about that "Tendulkar ball-tampering" incident was being used. I never said Dravid was NOT a gentleman. Dravid has also been involved in ball tampering, like Tendulkar. I don't remember that 2001 incident in SA at all (as I didn't watch that series at all, till date). But I remember following that incident when Dravid was accused of ball tampering (by applying lozenges on the ball). Everyone does all these tricks by showing as if they shine the ball. Pakistan players are masters at it, ask them.

Both Tendulkar and Dravid have been the same kind of gentlemen in cricket barring that odd incident with the ball tampering issue. Both have been involved in it. I don't understand how one can be called a "better gentleman" than the other.

When players have played over 20 odd years, what else you want to use to prove them as better batsmen/bowlers other than statistics? Tendulkar has been a better batsman than Dravid, Dravid has been a better matchwinner than Tendulkar.



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I assume you don't have better things to post! Point noted!:yes
 
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AbhishekS

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I assume you don't have better things to post! Point noted!
Exactly. One can only go speechless after the meaningless point you mentioned there.
And as far as Dravid and Sachin and the 'Gentleman' thing is concerned, I gotta say just one thing - Dravid is selfless, unlike Sachin. Says enough.
 

SaiSrini

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Exactly. One can only go speechless after the meaningless point you mentioned there.
And as far as Dravid and Sachin and the 'Gentleman' thing is concerned, I gotta say just one thing - Dravid is selfless, unlike Sachin. Says enough.

Meaningless? Use a better word. I said "Sachin is a better batsman than Dravid". Whats meaningless in that?

All this 'selfish', 'selfless' terms are just fancy terms used when you can't defend someone on basic points. You can still be better than someone although you are selfish and pursue your own personal goals. For example, do you agree that if each citizen in a country (for e.g. India) focus on their own lives and try to better their lives and live their own lives properly and within the law, the country will automatically get better?

And we have stats that say that a majority of Sachin's tons have been in Indian wins. Yet, people focus on only the games which they followed more passionately and where Sachin didn't take them past the finishing line, and then label him 'selfish'. When all the focus in on Sachin, people look for points to analyze. Whereas Dravid has lived all his career under the shadow of his peers like Tendulkar and Ganguly, and so people were less analytical about him and it helped him in the process.
 
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AbhishekS

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Gambhir is injured, okay, I'll open the batting with Sehwag.
That's selflessness.

Dhawan is injured and Pujara is opening with Vijay so according to the batting order I need to bat at 3, NO! I'll constantly bat at 4, ask Virat who bats at 5 to bat at 3, I'm not gonna change my position.
That's selfishness.

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RR is struggling, they need some quick runs, I know my limitations, a young attacking Indian batsman shall be a good choice. Okay, I'll step down.
That's selflessness.

MI is struggling, we hardly get a good start, I know my limitations but continue ignoring them, some talented batsmen are warming the benches, but who cares, I'll continue opening.
That's selfishness.

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Dale Steyn is gonna open for SRH, I'll take the load off Rahane and open to face maximum of Steyn's deliveries.
That's selflessness.

I'm not performing in ODIs, Rahane doesn't know whether he is a part of the team or not, a young batsman is constantly missing opportunities, but who cares, I'll continue to pick and choose.
That's selfishness.

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The team is struggling on foreign pitches and needs experience in the limited overs format, alright, I'm ready to play.
That's selflessness.

The team is struggling on foreign pitches and needs experience in the limited overs format, but wait, I may struggle too, I'll rest.
That's selfishness.

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We don't have a wicketkeeper for this world cup, no problem, I'll keep the wickets.
That's selflessness.

We already have two openers in the team, but I'll still open, let one of them bat at 3, and move Virat at 4, and let some talented middle order batsmen continue waiting for their chances.
That's selfishness.
 

zeustrojanstark

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^Hats off Mate!Really awesome stuff there.I respect Sachin but i hate his selfishness where he places his records above the team and morever his blind fans who will say Sachin played well when he scores something like 30 and say Dravid was just average even if he scores a 100.Bored of the jokers mate!
A selfless player like Dravid gets lesser recognition and people say he was living in the shadow.

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main-qimg-c321ab312b36eb176ad532026fd4eac5


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As on March 10,2012:
1.In 286 Test innings, Dravid played 31,258 balls. More than anyone else, ever.

2. He scored runs in tough batting conditions and in overseas Tests that led to wins abroad, a phenomenon that till then had been pretty rare in Indian cricket.

3. India won 15 Tests abroad during Dravid's career (excluding matches in Bangladesh and Zimbabwe). In those games he scored 1,577 runs at 65.70?both aggregate and average is higher than Tendulkar's.

4. In all, eight of his 11 Man-of-the-Match awards came in overseas Tests, and five in overseas wins, including unforgettable performances at Headingley (2002), Adelaide (2003), Rawalpindi (2004) and Kingston (2006).

Tendulkar won only five of his 14 Man-of-the-Match awards overseas, and only one in a win (excluding Bangladesh). In fact, no Indian has won as many match awards overseas as Dravid has.

5. Dravid also scored mountains of runs in drawn tests overseas, averaging more than 75 in those matches, with 10 centuries in 32 Tests.

6. Two times he scored a century in each inning of a Test. In fact, he is one of only three Indians to achieve this feat?Sunil Gavaskar and Vijay Hazare are the others.

7. He is the only batsman at the moment to have scored more than 10,000 runs at No. 3.

8. On an average, he played 123 balls per dismissal, with only Kallis higher at 125 balls for players who have played min 10,000 balls.
9. When Dravid was at the crease, the team scored 32,039 runs. Given that the entire Indian team scored 89,668 runs, it means 35.6 percent of the total runs that India made in Tests involving Dravid were scored with him at the crease. The corresponding percentage for Tendulkar is 29.9, and 32.6 for Kallis. It is also the highest partnership runs scored by any batsman ever.



10. Dravid is also the only batsman to be involved in more than 700 partnerships. No other batsman has even touched 650 so far.

11. Dravid has also been involved in more century stands than any other batsman?88.

12. Dravid is also the only batsman to have 10 or more century stands with four others; no one else has even managed three.

13. He has the most Test Match catches?210?a world record, and was a great fielder at first short leg, and then slip.

14. Saurav Ganguly?s is regarded as India?s best captain with 21 Test wins. In these 21 matches, Dravid has piled up an astonishing 2,571 runs at a record average of 102.84. These 21 matches had nine hundreds (including three double-hundreds).

15. Dravid was at the other end when Laxman became the highest Indian scorer in 2001 when he scored 280 (a 376 run-partnership) in Kolkata, was at the other end when Sehwag and Dravid were involved in a 410 run-partnership in Lahore in 2006, was at the other end when Sehwag bettered his own record and scored 319 runs against South Africa (268 run-partnership), and he was also at the other end when Sehwag scored 293 runs against SL in 2009 (a 237 run-partnership). It is not a mere coincidence that the top four of five scores by Indian batsmen have come when Rahul Dravid was at the other end.
 

SaiSrini

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Gambhir is injured, okay, I'll open the batting with Sehwag.
That's selflessness.

Dhawan is injured and Pujara is opening with Vijay so according to the batting order I need to bat at 3, NO! I'll constantly bat at 4, ask Virat who bats at 5 to bat at 3, I'm not gonna change my position.
That's selfishness.

-------------------------

RR is struggling, they need some quick runs, I know my limitations, a young attacking Indian batsman shall be a good choice. Okay, I'll step down.
That's selflessness.

MI is struggling, we hardly get a good start, I know my limitations but continue ignoring them, some talented batsmen are warming the benches, but who cares, I'll continue opening.
That's selfishness.

-------------------------

Dale Steyn is gonna open for SRH, I'll take the load off Rahane and open to face maximum of Steyn's deliveries.
That's selflessness.

I'm not performing in ODIs, Rahane doesn't know whether he is a part of the team or not, a young batsman is constantly missing opportunities, but who cares, I'll continue to pick and choose.
That's selfishness.

-------------------------

The team is struggling on foreign pitches and needs experience in the limited overs format, alright, I'm ready to play.
That's selflessness.

The team is struggling on foreign pitches and needs experience in the limited overs format, but wait, I may struggle too, I'll rest.
That's selfishness.

-------------------------

We don't have a wicketkeeper for this world cup, no problem, I'll keep the wickets.
That's selflessness.

We already have two openers in the team, but I'll still open, let one of them bat at 3, and move Virat at 4, and let some talented middle order batsmen continue waiting for their chances.
That's selfishness.

Most of your points mentioned here are pure guesswork. If you are really someone from very close to the dressing room of the teams where Sachin Tendulkar plays (and with the selectors and BCCI), you are one who will be hounded from now on for favors :p:rolleyes.

For the "wicketkeeper for the World Cup" thing, if Sachin had played as a keeper before in some form, you say he wouldn't have taken it up? Dravid has kept before in some form of cricket. That's why he was comfortable taking it up on short term basis.

Have you seen this video where Dravid mimics Tendulkar? Check it out on YouTube. He refers to a domestic match where Manjrekar wanted someone to bowl spin and they were having trouble finding one, and Tendulkar said "off spin, leg spin koyi bhi dalega" (I will bowl off spin, leg spin, whatever)... That's not selflessness?

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^Hats off Mate!Really awesome stuff there.I respect Sachin but i hate his selfishness where he places his records above the team and morever his blind fans who will say Sachin played well when he scores something like 30 and say Dravid was just average even if he scores a 100.Bored of the jokers mate!
A selfless player like Dravid gets lesser recognition and people say he was living in the shadow.

For almost all his career, Dravid did live in the shadow of Tendulkar and Ganguly. Even in that 1999 World Cup, Dravid scored lot of runs, but Ganguly took the spotlight by being more flamboyant and scoring as many runs.

Tendulkar was more flamboyant, but he scored more runs than Dravid. Yes, I did agree that Dravid won more matches for India and was the "go to" man in crisis, but due to the sheer weight of runs scored by Tendulkar in different conditions and attacks, to me he is the better batsman. If you see this thread itself, Tendulkar gets a mention in most people's messages, and apart from him, guys like Lara, Ponting, Inzamam, etc get mentioned. But of the same generation, very few people mention Dravid among the all time greats. In fact, I was one of those rare guys in this thread who took Dravid's name in my list of all time great batsmen.

P.s: Don't make me look like a Dravid hater. Too far from it! I love Dravid as much as any of his die hard fans do. Yes, I love Tendulkar more but I am trying to be as impartial here in rating these two legends.
 

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