Jacques Kallis or Rahul Dravid?

[jordox]

I guess you neglected to read the question, then.

Whatever. His bowling makes him better than Dravid, end of discussion. Just like De Villiers fielding and keeping makes him better than Bell.

The reason I didn't bother trying to debate who is the better batsman is because there is no point. Indians think Dravid is better, South Africans think Kallis is better and the rest of us are just judging from the few times we saw them bat. For example, if the main memory of Dravid you have is him scoring a hundred against Australia but the main memory you have of Kallis is him getting run out in the last ODI series against Australia for next to nothing, you'll say Dravid.

For me, the one thing that pops into my head when I think Dravid of how boring he is, which isn't always correct because I haven't seen him bat all that often. It's the same deal with most Aussies here, they think Dravid and what pops into their head was the last time he was here and out of form, so they say Kallis.

Kallis is better player because of what he offers. Don't know why we are comparing them though..

 

[aussie_ben91]

Kallis is better player because of what he offers. Don't know why we are comparing them though..

Because they are similar batsman.

 

[0601731]

dravid is more of a team man so i ll go for him.

 

[tech.007]

defense and technique makes Dravid better but in terms of hitting powerful shots kallis is better

 

[mattfb]

defense and technique makes Dravid better but in terms of hitting powerful shots kallis is better

Kallis is just as good at defending, which means Kallis is better.

 

[tech.007]

no cricketer beats the powerful defense of Rahul Dravid

 

[Precambrian]

You see more in Dravid?!

Now this is a tough one indeed. I'll do my thing first and filter out Bangladesh and Zimbabwe and make Dravid's stats exclusive to him batting in the middle order, as Kallis never opened:
Kallis averages 52.85
Dravid averages 59.25

Dravid has the clear, massive edge. Dravid scored far more runs at a better average in the 1990s, which was the tougher decade to bat on due to the pitches and better bowlers. Kallis has a mediocre record in England, Dravid in South Africa. Normally, Kallis' good record in New Zealand would pretty much cancel out the issue in England as an anomaly rather than an issue against seaming pitches - but further analysis shows that Kallis' runs in New Zealand have come in high scoring contests - whether this is due to flat pitches or poor bowling is irrelevant. All things considered, Dravid has the clear edge due to a better average and nothing which discounts this on the negative of Dravid or positive of Kallis.

In ODIs, Kallis has the edge with average and a similar strike rate and discounting minnows does nothing to change this - so Kallis is a better ODI batsman.

Agree with the above post.

Sums up my reasons for placing Dravid above Kallis.

And Kallis is yet to play the kind of epic innings that Dravid has played against tough teams in tough situations (180 vs Aus at Kolkota, 2001 ; 200 vs Aus at Adelaide 03/04)

 

[Will_NA]

no cricketer beats the powerful defense of Rahul Dravid

Shame he didn't have any other shot for a year...

 

[Cricketman]

Sure Kallis bowls, but Dravid was wicketkeeping for a long period of time and was later captain through plenty of Indian victories. So I think that makes him more valuable to a team.

imho if I had to choose one batsman to bat for my life it would be Rahul Dravid. He's the perfect batsman, he's had one year of bad form in his entire career and people are already jumping on him. He's dominated Australia, Pakistan, the West Indies, England, basically every test playing nation. He's Mr. Dependable, was the best number 3 in the world, and was a fine captain in his peak. He's the selfless cricketer. The battler. The Wall. Probably even a better batsman then Sachin Tendulkar technically.

 

[sohum]

Whatever. His bowling makes him better than Dravid, end of discussion.

It's not whatever. The question is not whether Kallis is a better player than Dravid, it is whether he is a better batsman. If you do not wish to discuss this comparison, then you don't have to! However, your thoughts comparing their batting is welcome in this thread.

For example, if the main memory of Dravid you have is him scoring a hundred against Australia but the main memory you have of Kallis is him getting run out in the last ODI series against Australia for next to nothing, you'll say Dravid.

I would argue that no one, not even the most immature of members on this forum, would compare a single Test innings against a single ODI innings to prove their point.

For me, the one thing that pops into my head when I think Dravid of how boring he is, which isn't always correct because I haven't seen him bat all that often. It's the same deal with most Aussies here, they think Dravid and what pops into their head was the last time he was here and out of form, so they say Kallis.

Your point would have merit if they didn't have very similar strike rates. Dravid's is a touch under 42 and Kallis's is a touch over 44. Not exactly a huge difference scoring two more runs per 100 balls.

Also, Dravid has scored 5372 of his 10509 in boundaries and sixes (51%) compared to Kallis's 4868 out of 9988 (49%). So even by that comparison, it shows that the two are nearly identical. It appears that you are holding everyone by the same yardstick of comparison that you use.

Kallis is better player because of what he offers. Don't know why we are comparing them though..

He may be a better player but like I said, his bowling has no merit whatsoever in how good a batsman he his compared to Dravid, which is what this thread is about.

sohum added 2 Minutes and 40 Seconds later...

Probably even a better batsman then Sachin Tendulkar technically.

Up till the last two seasons, he was the best batsmen in our side for the last decade or so, including the likes of Tendulkar, Laxman, Ganguly and Sehwag. He may have reached his use-by date, but that doesn't mean that we completely ignore his past achievements, which is what many on this thread are doing by saying he is "boring" and doesn't have any shots.

 

[jordox]

Also, Dravid has scored 5372 of his 10509 in boundaries and sixes (51%) compared to Kallis's 4868 out of 9988 (49%). So even by that comparison, it shows that the two are nearly identical. It appears that you are holding everyone by the same yardstick of comparison that you use.

Well can you explain why most Austalians are voting Kallis and most Indians are voting Dravid then?

I'm telling you, it all boils down to when people have seen them bat. Most Australian's have seen Dravid only bat a few times, and the only recent time they've seen him bat he's been shocking. The stats really don't matter, it's just current form.

For exmaple, the Mitchell Johnson and Jimmy Anderson thread. When it's first made, Anderson was in terrific form and had just carved New Zealand (i think?) to pieces. Anderson won the poll by a mile. New poll comes up after the roles change, and Johnson is in the lead easily just because of the last game against South Africa he played, with very little difference to their stats (apart from Johnson's new best figures).

If Kallis were to of made a big hundred against Australia the other day, this poll would be largerly in favour of him because it would be fresh in everyone memories. Sure, the more dare I say, intelligent members of the forum (like yourself) wouldn't take this as the be-all-and-end-all and realise that doesn't make Kallis a better batter, but most would.

That's all I'm saying

 

[sohum]

I don't know why the Aussies would vote for Kallis unless they genuinely thought he was better. After all, Dravid has caused their team heartache uncountable times in the last decade.

 

[Precambrian]

imho if I had to choose one batsman to bat for my life it would be Rahul Dravid. He's the perfect batsman, he's had one year of bad form in his entire career and people are already jumping on him. He's dominated Australia, Pakistan, the West Indies, England, basically every test playing nation. He's Mr. Dependable, was the best number 3 in the world, and was a fine captain in his peak. He's the selfless cricketer. The battler. The Wall. Probably even a better batsman then Sachin Tendulkar technically.

Load of crap.

Just because Dravid plays on the defence, and Tendulkar is more attacking, doesnt make Dravid technically the better player.

Dravid's form peaked from 2001-2006, and he played two very good knocks against Australia. Other than that, he has hardly "dominated" Australia. His average of 41 against them is testimony to that.

Nobody wants to go back and think about Dravid's wretched run in Australia in 99 where he struggled against genuine pace and swing. Or his poor run recently both in Aus and Ind.

And an unselfish batsman?? LMAO. If you had watched him play some knocks of his, when watching paint dry was obviously the better option. If he is so unselfish, why is he so defensive? There are no selfless batsmen in the whole world. And it is good to be selfish, because that means you put a price on your wicket which is excellent for yourself as well as the team.

 

[mattfb]

no cricketer beats the powerful defense of Rahul Dravid

No, of course not because that's all he practices but Kallis is nearly as good in defense, and a lot better in attack which weighs up to him being better.

 

[aussie_ben91]

I don't know why the Aussies would vote for Kallis unless they genuinely thought he was better. After all, Dravid has caused their team heartache uncountable times in the last decade.

Yeah he caused the crowd the heartache last year at the SCG with how slow he was batting.

Seriously, his only played 2 good innings against Australia. One was when VVS Laxman scored at over 100 runs quicker then him and the other one was on the flattest pitch in Australia (Adelaide Oval) and neither Glenn McGrath or Shane Warne were playing.

Dale Steyn made a mockery of Dravid's technique the last time South Africa toured India. He bowled a massively outswinger on middle stump and Dravid played all around it and lost his off peg.

Dravid doesn't even bring his bat straight when he goes to play his shot, his technique is overrated because he blocks the majority of the balls he faces on slow subcontient pitches. Kallis or Tendulkar have the best technique in world cricket.