England Ashes tour party

[Owzat]

Not sure when exactly it is announced, but anyone have any selection suggestions? (EDIT : Monday officially as per the article I subsequently found) Maybe discuss just beyond the probable auto-picks below

Cook
Bell
Trott
Pietersen
Prior
Swann
Broad
Anderson


If fit I assume Bresnan will go, quite probably Root and possibly Bairstow. They're bound to go with a second spinner, Tredwell? Do you think Finn will go?

Alec Stewart has done a piece I didn't spot (just off page) until just now

BBC Sport - The Ashes 2013-14: Alec Stewart's England squad to take on Australia

As ever, I started by writing down the dead certs - the established members of the Test set-up who are guaranteed a seat on the plane.

To my mind, there are 10 players who fit into this category: Alastair Cook, Joe Root, Jonathan Trott, Kevin Pietersen, Ian Bell, Matt Prior, Stuart Broad, Graeme Swann, James Anderson and Tim Bresnan, provided he makes a full recovery from his back injury

So he agrees with me, he's put in Bresnan and Root whereas I'm not sure they are absolute nailed on "dead certs".

He's put down the following as contenders for the other spots :

Batsmen : Michael Carberry, Nick Compton, James Taylor, Gary Ballance, Ravi Bopara
Back-up Keeper : Jonny Bairstow, Jos Buttler, Simon Davies
All-rounder : Ben Stokes, Chris Woakes
Second spinner : Monty Panesar, Simon Kerrigan, James Tredwell
Fast bowlers : Chris Tremlett, Boyd Rankin, Steven Finn, Graham Onions

Full squad (Stewart's prediction)
Cook, Root, Trott, Pietersen, Bell, Compton, Bairstow, Prior, Stokes, Broad, Swann, Anderson, Bresnan, Tremlett, Rankin, Finn, Panesar


I'd contest if Compton will come back in, while Alec has rationalised it as "experience in the top three", I'd not say he or Carberry are that in Tests and I'm unconvinced by either. Bell could open if needed, although to date he's only done so twice (26 runs @ 13.00) He does it in ODIs


Keeper would be a toss up between Buttler and Bairstow, I'd lean towards Bairstow as the alternate batsman, he's omitted Morgan who I am sure can also keep wicket

All-rounders is a sad pick, Stokes or Woakes. I'd go with Stokes as a non-genuine all-rounder selection (yet), but I'd be happier sticking him in as a six/seven if we insisted on breaking from four bowlers.

Spinners is a toss up between bouncer p*sser and Tredwell, Kerrigan would be ripped a new one and on one Test's experience it could be terminal and would make zero sense.

Quicks is a toss up again, never quite know with England. I suspect theory of height, bounce, pace etc will make the decision, I think Finn is shooting down the pecking order, Tremlett has done little for his county to persuade me he's ready so maybe it will be Rankin.


All said and done Stewart will doubtless be more in touch with the often unfathomable 'thinking' processes of the selectors. I wouldn't be convinced by an XI starting with five picks in Compton, Bairstow, Stokes, Rankin and Panesar, yet they may well be in the tour party.

I know it's unlikely those five would all play at once, but I'm using that as a measure of the quality of back-up. Compton struggled in his last six Test innings, Bairstow is yet to really crack on in his career with an average of 30.22, HS of 95, while Stokes may have just taken a 5wi in an ODI, but his batting average in ODIs is 14.50 albeit from six innings, and his average 36.67 with five of his six wickets coming in that 5wi.

The other two are more concerns over quality/coming back from injury. Monty adds to the tail and while he was better than Giles in 06/07, he 10 wkts @ 37.90 which granted was the second best English average by less than a whole run, but is he really going to rip through the aussies?!?!?

That said his average that series is better than his Ashes average overall, only one other wicket. He did do well in UAE and India, but this is Australia not either of those. In New Zealand he took 5 wkts @ 70.00, his last series for England. I know he'd be second spinner only, but Kerrigan apart have we nothing younger and/or better in reserve than Monty and Tredwell?!?!?!?

 

[War]

I hope the rumors i have seen written that Compton might miss out just because of his reaction to be dropped (a reaction i think he was right to do mind you) doesn't come to pass.

Fact it was a mistake to drop Compton, because Bairstow didn't step up. Compton should still be opening with Cook & Root should be @ # 6.

Also even if Rankin is picked, i also hope Tremlett is included too.

 

[bigred]

I would go

Cook
Root
Trotted
Pietersen
Bell
Taylor
Bopara
Prior
Bairstow
Bresnan
Broad
Anderson
Finn
Tremlett
Onions
Swann
Tredwell

They won't pick Ravi though. Think they've given up hope of him being a test Cricketer. Think they'll go with Stokes instead. Giles was clearly impressed with him during odi's. Think they'll also go for Rankin above onions because of this obsession with tall bowlers. I'd like to think Taylor has a shout but I fear they'll look to someone like Carberry or Compton.

As for the lions squad, I hope the take

Compton
Robson
Moeen
Vince
Morgan
Ballance
Buttler
Foakes
Stokes
Woakes
Kerrigan
Borthwick
Dernbach
Roland Jones
Overton
Rankin
Jordan

 

[War]

They won't pick Ravi though. Think they've given up hope of him being a test Cricketer. Think they'll go with Stokes instead. Giles was clearly impressed with him during odi's. Think they'll also go for Rankin above onions because of this obsession with tall bowlers. I'd like to think Taylor has a shout but I fear they'll look to someone like Carberry or Compton.

Well the selectors aren't wrong to have given up on Bopara as a test prospect. He didn't make use of his chances.

Won't say picking Rankin is an "obsession with tall bowlers" - tall bowlers are very useful in AUS conditions. We saw how superb Tremlett was in the 2010/11 series.

Why would you "fear" if the selectors pick Compton or Carberry though?

 

[IceAgeComing]

They should take Monty as the second spinner in my opinion - his recent personal troubles would be greatly helped by a winter with the national team actually playing some cricket; the ODIs showed us that Tredwell isn't very good when a team chooses to attack his bowling; and Kerrigan isn't ready for the Test spotlight yet; especially not an Ashes Test in Australia.

They have to pick Bairstow; even if just to provide cover for Matt Prior just in case he gets injured. I don't think that its worth the risk taking Buttler as a back-up Test Keeper - he's a young guy; and its better that he's playing for the Lions rather than running drinks out all Winter.

I don't claim to know a great deal about either Stokes or Woakes; but based on comparing their performances in the Fifth Test and the ODI series; I think that Stokes is the best choice they have if an all-rounder is needed. But ODIs can't really be compared to Tests; so that's just a shot-in-the-dark.

Batsman-wise; it depends if you want a third opener just in case something happens to Cook or Root; or if you want a general middle-order person. If the former; I'd go with Compton, but England will probably pick Carberry. However; if I was the selectors, I'd trust the two openers to be decent enough to play the entire series and pick James Taylor as someone to cover the middle-order. I'm sure one of the England guys could move up is something happened (Trott seems suited to opening, and Bell/Pieterson have each opened the batting for the ODI team this year).

The hardest thing is picking the quickies - and England seem to do this randomly for every series... Anderson and Broad and guarantees unless something strange happens; if Bresnan is fit then he'll be in the team, and I think that the England selectors will stick with Steve Finn for this series; especially as he'll be very useful in England. This then leaves us two of Tremlett, Rankin and Onions. I like Onions - he's something different compared to the other England bowlers; and he bowled well in County cricket this year; while Tremlett didn't do as well as he should. Rankin has a good ODI performance; so I think that he'll get picked; which leaves the question of will England pick another tall-bowler suited to the Aussie pitches; or go for someone different in Graeme Onions. I think England will pick Tremlett in this situation; but I'd go for Onions.

Which means; the officially un-official IceAgeComing England squad for the 2013/14 Ashes series would be:

Opening Batsman:
Cook
Root

Middle-Order
Bell
Pieterson
Taylor
Trott

Wicket-Keeper/Batsmen
Bairstow
Prior

All-Rounder
Stokes

Spinners
Panesar
Swann

Seamers
Anderson
Broad
Bresnan
Finn
Onions
Rankin

Again; this isn't what I think England will pick (if it was that; substitute Carberry for Taylor and Tremlett for Onions); but what I think is the best squad from the players available.

 

[ste_mc_efc]

From what some of the TMS and sky dudes were saying I don't think the original tour is that important, as apparently the lions will be reasonably close and they can just draft from there if needs be.

 

[War]

BBC Sport - The Ashes 2013-14: Alec Stewart's England squad to take on Australia

Alec Stewart has got it perfect here. Hopefully this is squad picked:

Full squad

Cook, Root, Trott, Pietersen, Bell, Compton, Bairstow, Prior, Stokes, Broad, Swann, Anderson, Bresnan, Tremlett, Rankin, Finn, Panesar

Alec Stewart was talking to BBC Sport's Sam Sheringham

 

[IceAgeComing]

A few surprises in England's ashes squad

England squad: Alastair Cook (Essex, capt), Matt Prior (Sussex, vice-captain), James Anderson (Lancashire), Jonny Bairstow, Gary Ballance (both Yorkshire), Ian Bell (Warwickshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Michael Carberry (Hampshire), Steven Finn (Middlesex), Monty Panesar (Essex), Kevin Pietersen (Surrey), Boyd Rankin (Warwickshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Graeme Swann (Nottinghamshire), Chris Tremlett (Surrey), Jonathan Trott (Warwickshire)

Ballance is the main surprise as no one seemed to mention him despite his good county year. No Onions; as Tremlett, Finn and Rankin get picked for the squad. There is also no Bresnan in the current squad; but he'll be going to Australia and will be added if he is fit. Other than that; I think similar to what everyone was expecting!

 

[barmyarmy]

I'm not really sure why they bother with an "official" announcement. I read all of this in yesterday's paper...

 

[Owzat]

I'm not really sure why they bother with an "official" announcement. I read all of this in yesterday's paper...

Fair point, and the squad was fairly predictable given Stewart cited the 10 "dead certs" as I pretty much did, allowing for injuries/form I excluded two he included.

I suspect most are being taking along for the ride ie not expected to play all being well.

I've never been a fan of players making their debut on tour, while some wouldn't be they aren't excactly experienced Test campaigners and I hope that doesn't come back to haunt us.

I hope the rumors i have seen written that Compton might miss out just because of his reaction to be dropped (a reaction i think he was right to do mind you) doesn't come to pass.

Fact it was a mistake to drop Compton, because Bairstow didn't step up

Disagree mainly on his reaction, if he was wishing to curry favour with selectors criticising them was an own goal.

Not sure it was a mistake to drop him, you can't use hindsight to judge a decision. Bairstow hasn't done much more right or wrong than Compton, however you don't want walking wickets opening the order and that's a reason I'm a bit surprised at Carberry's inclusion. I'm unconvinced by him so far in ODIs, but I don't expect him to open. The same concerns were voiced over Root early innings, he may or may not come good in the longer term but he's at least the right side of 30 and plenty of time on his side.

 

[MUFC1987]

Anyone who thinks that Compton hasn't been picked because of his reaction to being dropped is being very naive. Compton was picked through sheer pressure of the media because he had a superb year and England had an opening spot available. It was a lot more to do with the media that the England selectors wanting him there. Hence why he was dropped at the first opportunity. He was never, ever going to be picked. Which is obviously plain wrong, because he's in the top two openers in the Country for sure (Along with Cook obviously). Carberry being picked is left field, because he's been ok in Division Two of the County Championship. On ability and form of the last few years, the man after Compton should have been Varun Chopra.

I like Ballance though, he's got massive potential and is a lot better ability wise than the likes of Bairstow. Speaking of which, surprised to see him picked too. If you want a specialist keeper, Steve Davies would have been the pick for me. Bairstow offers little with the bat, so for me, Davies is the better keeper and better Batsman. Stokes is there for experience and I'd be surprised if he's picked in the team, but big potential again.

As for Tremlett, I have no idea what he's doing there. He's on the reputation of what, 4 years ago? Would have preferred Onions myself, because if Anderson goes down, we have nobody with any decent control in that attack, which is a massive worry.

Oh and on Panesar, he had to be picked. He's literally the only other decent spinner we have in the country. Throwing anyone else in if Swann isn't available, would have been carnage.

With a couple of injuries and/or poor form, we could really be struggling in this series, which is crazy.

 

[cricket_icon]

Anyone who thinks that Compton hasn't been picked because of his reaction to being dropped is being very naive. Compton was picked through sheer pressure of the media because he had a superb year and England had an opening spot available. It was a lot more to do with the media that the England selectors wanting him there. Hence why he was dropped at the first opportunity. He was never, ever going to be picked. Which is obviously plain wrong, because he's in the top two openers in the Country for sure (Along with Cook obviously). Carberry being picked is left field, because he's been ok in Division Two of the County Championship. On ability and form of the last few years, the man after Compton should have been Varun Chopra.

I like Ballance though, he's got massive potential and is a lot better ability wise than the likes of Bairstow. Speaking of which, surprised to see him picked too. If you want a specialist keeper, Steve Davies would have been the pick for me. Bairstow offers little with the bat, so for me, Davies is the better keeper and better Batsman. Stokes is there for experience and I'd be surprised if he's picked in the team, but big potential again.

As for Tremlett, I have no idea what he's doing there. He's on the reputation of what, 4 years ago? Would have preferred Onions myself, because if Anderson goes down, we have nobody with any decent control in that attack, which is a massive worry.

Oh and on Panesar, he had to be picked. He's literally the only other decent spinner we have in the country. Throwing anyone else in if Swann isn't available, would have been carnage.

With a couple of injuries and/or poor form, we could really be struggling in this series, which is crazy.

I pretty much completely agree with you, it's a good squad with some young guys getting a chance which is what I always like but seriously, Carberry getting a shot ahead of Compton? That's ridiculous and Bairstow just isn't a good enough keeper, yes his batting shows more promise than the likes of Davies but I'd prefer the better keeper to the better batsman.

Apart from that, I like the squad, just looking at it:

Alastair Cook (Essex, capt), Matt Prior (Sussex, vice-captain), James Anderson (Lancashire), Jonny Bairstow, Gary Ballance (both Yorkshire), Ian Bell (Warwickshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Michael Carberry (Hampshire), Steven Finn (Middlesex), Monty Panesar (Essex), Kevin Pietersen (Surrey), Boyd Rankin (Warwickshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Graeme Swann (Nottinghamshire), Chris Tremlett (Surrey), Jonathan Trott (Warwickshire)

I can't see Australia having anything stronger? I reckon their bowling will be pretty damn good considering there are some players coming back from injury. Personally I'd like to see Finn given a full series, when he is in top form, he is the best young fast bowler in England but he is a rhythm player, a bit like Umar Gul or Stephen Harmison, if he isn't given enough games, he can't be at his best.

Irrespective of pitch and with everyone fit, the team I'd go for is:

Cook C
Root
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Ballance
Prior WK
Broad
Swann
Finn
Anderson

Panesar is a good back up for Swann and Tremlett can come in for either Broad or Finn if there should be an injury.

The question this raises is, what's happened to the ECB's love affair with James Taylor? He is still very talented, a good stroke maker and quick between the wickets. Why has he been over looked for so long?

 

[MUFC1987]

Incidentally, I feel for Carberry too. He seems to be this years media pick, much like Compton was last year. He's got decent stats in T20 so been pushed by everyone to get into the squad and finds himself as the spare opener. I feel sorry for him because he has no chance of playing and much like Compton, probably won't be picked again in any form of cricket for England after this winter.

 

[War]

Disagree mainly on his reaction, if he was wishing to curry favour with selectors criticising them was an own goal.

Not sure it was a mistake to drop him, you can't use hindsight to judge a decision. Bairstow hasn't done much more right or wrong than Compton, however you don't want walking wickets opening the order and that's a reason I'm a bit surprised at Carberry's inclusion. I'm unconvinced by him so far in ODIs, but I don't expect him to open. The same concerns were voiced over Root early innings, he may or may not come good in the longer term but he's at least the right side of 30 and plenty of time on his side.

Not hindsight really. Despite Compton and Bairstow having similar test averages, IMO Compton has looked far more convincing as a test player.

Lets not forget up until his little struggles vs NZ in the home tests this year - Compton was looking very good. His debut series was very good especially for ENG batsman who had never faced quality spinners on a turner.

Bairstow for me except for his 95 vs S Africa in 2012, always looks a bit scratchy at the crease in all his other test innings.

Plus i'm in the camp that reckon Root is better suited to middle-order based on his Ashes exploits for now, rather than opening.

I think the ENG selectors could have persisted with Compton in the Ashes, even when Root was emerging.

Players like Bresnan, Cook, Strauss, Broad have had much LONGER bad periods that the 3 bad tests that Compton & the selectors gave them long periods to get their form back.

But as brilliant as the ENG selectors have been in recent years, we have to call a spade a spade. Compton has not been overlooked for cricket reasons, its a personal beef & that is how selectors should do things even if ENG retain the Ashes with the selected squad.

----------

Anyone who thinks that Compton hasn't been picked because of his reaction to being dropped is being very naive. Compton was picked through sheer pressure of the media because he had a superb year and England had an opening spot available. It was a lot more to do with the media that the England selectors wanting him there. Hence why he was dropped at the first opportunity.

Uhh maybe i'm misreading you but i'm not sure what you are suggesting here.

Yes the media hyped him up based on his excellent form, but its not as if its unusual for the media to hype a player for international call-up after performing domestically.

If ENG selectors didn't want to pick him as the Strauss replacement, who do you suppose they wanted to pick then?

As for Tremlett, I have no idea what he's doing there. He's on the reputation of what, 4 years ago? Would have preferred Onions myself, because if Anderson goes down, we have nobody with any decent control in that attack, which is a massive worry.

With a couple of injuries and/or poor form, we could really be struggling in this series, which is crazy.

While i may have picked Onions too, i don't think ENG will be struggling at all even if key players get injured. ENG continued worry will be AUS pace attack, which can trouble the batting line-up.

However ENGs bowlers still have a solid edge of AUS batters. AUS realistically can only obviously improve their batting line-up from the Oval test by including George Bailey & their is no guaranteed knowing the stupid form of the AUS selectors in recent years that they will even do that.

 

[ferg512]

I am extremely disappointed that Onions wasn't picked, he is my favourite England player so I'm probably a bit biased but what more can he do, consistently the best bowler in english FC cricket and he can't even make the squad? England seem to have an unhealthy obsession with tall pace bowlers right now, which is ironic seeing as their best bowler is one of the shortest of the lot.

----------

I know at the end of the day it probably won't matter thats how weak the Australian batting is, but I'd still be a bit worried if I were an England fan and somehow Anderson went down or even Broad.