Graeme Swann vs Jim Laker and the legacy of English spinners

[sifter132]

Not getting outbowled by Nathan Hauritz would be a good start... Swann had 1 or 2 good games in 2009 (the Oval, took 4 in the 2nd innings at Lords), and 1 or 2 good games in 2010/11 (Adelaide and he kept it tight at MCG) - that makes at least 6 Tests vs Australia where he wasn't a great factor at all. That's what I mean by dominate, be a factor in MOST Tests. Some of those games weren't suited for his bowling eg. Headingley, Perth, but others definitely were eg. Cardiff, Edgbaston, Sydney.

We could argue this til the cows come home probably But I just don't see it in Swann - he averages 40 vs Aus, 39 vs Ind and 38 vs SA, the 3 top teams of his era. You can't be a 'great' with that record.

 

[War]

Not getting outbowled by Nathan Hauritz would be a good start... Swann had 1 or 2 good games in 2009 (the Oval, took 4 in the 2nd innings at Lords), and 1 or 2 good games in 2010/11 (Adelaide and he kept it tight at MCG) - that makes at least 6 Tests vs Australia where he wasn't a great factor at all. That's what I mean by dominate, be a factor in MOST Tests. Some of those games weren't suited for his bowling eg. Headingley, Perth, but others definitely were eg. Cardiff, Edgbaston, Sydney.

We could argue this til the cows come home probably But I just don't see it in Swann - he averages 40 vs Aus, 39 vs Ind and 38 vs SA, the 3 top teams of his era. You can't be a 'great' with that record.

Well if you really look at the great/very good/good spinners throughout test history. The kind of dominance you speak of in being a factor in "most tests" of a series (especially if the spinner is part of bowling attack, where excellent fast-bowlers exists) - really doesn't happen.

Only Warne, Murali, O'Reilly i'd say have been spinners who could be as lethal/threatening as fast-bowler in most phases of a series and on any pitch (except a grassy wicket). This special ability makes that trio the tier 1 great spinners. And it separates those three spinners from the tier 2 great spinners like Lance Gibbs, Anil Kumble, Hugh Tayfield, Grimmett, Qadir, Gupte, Underwood, Bedi, Saqlain, Chandrasekar, Laker, Prasanna, Benaud.

Swann at this best can become a tier 2 great spinner - he is never going to be as good as Warne & co.

So really all Swann has to do, which is what he has been forced to do is step up the few times he gets turning tracks vs the top teams i.e Adelaide 2010, Lords & Oval 09, Oval 2011 or in the sub-continent as he done in 2012 so far - and be a serious wicket-taking threat & he has done that very consistently to date in his career.