Hayden Vs Sehwag

Who is better batman?


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It's quite amazing that when you compare that list to the list of guys who play outside the subcontinent that average over 50 in the subcontinent:

Matthew Hayden
Allan Border
Clive Lloyd
Stephen Fleming
Brian Lara
Jacques Kallis
Alvin Kallicharan
David Gower
Gary Kirsten
Sir Garfield Sobers
Rohan Kanhai
Tony Grieg
Ken Barrington
Everton Weekes
AB De Villiers
Ted Dexter
Geoff Boycott
Jacques Rudolph
Mike Hussey
Norm O'Neill

There are less countries in the subcontinent and they've been playing less, so I removed the 20 game limit, but those are the names from the first page and a half. So many average players averaging over 50 in the subcontinent, Stephen Fleming being the main one that stands out, his overall average only just crept above 40 yet he comfortably averages over 50 in the subcontinent. Can't say I completely agree that subcontinental players are 'frauds' but it's certainly an interesting point. Here are the ones that averaged over 50 from over 10 games:

Sobers
Fleming
Lloyd
Kanhai
Lara
O'Neill
Gower
Kallicharan
Border
Kallis
Kirsten
Grieg
Hayden

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru...3;team=4;team=5;template=results;type=batting

There's the link
 
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Well it's probably true. Had Gilchrist played in a weaker team then his average would've been hovering around 40 throughout his career. The case is the same as Sehwag as his average would've most likely been hovering around 40 instead of 50 if he wasn't a subcontient player.

Had he played in Australia he would have averaged 80.
 
It's not an interesting point. You're taking a very concentrated number of matches.
 
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What a pleasant bump. :rolleyes:

I don't know if enough people read these analyses:

Centuries and Double Century breakdown by match result
Statistical breakdown of each's career after 25 matches, 50 matches and 66 matches

If anything, it should show you why you should not take this whole average thing as the messiah of comparing cricket.

For those who think Sehwag is nothing but a slogger, I have lost some respect for you (if I had any to begin with ;)). You really cannot slog your way to a triple century. Twice. The law of averages is squarely against you. And as if that doesn't take care of things, you have to look at the range of shots that Sehwag possesses. Sehwag has a gift of great hand-eye coordination and reflexes, like Hayden has a gift of great power and timing. And some of you guys are going around pretending like Hayden has never played a slog shot in his life. Did you even watch the recent tour of India? Hayden was trying to slog Zaheer over mid-wicket the first ball of the innings! Each has their own game... and why not play to your strengths? But why should Hayden's shot be characterized as an "impressive power shot" whereas Sehwag playing a similar stroke is characterized as a "dimwitted slog shot".

Now, for the part about India boasting a bowler who is the third highest wicket-taker in the world. So you are essentially comparing the 1100 wickets that Warnie and McGrath have among them at an average of about 23 to the 600-odd wickets that Kumble has at an average of about 29? Surely that should tell you a story in itself. Kumble's been a good bowler but he has been nowhere as lethal as Warne or McGrath. McGrath even averages less than Murali!

Finally, Ben you said that Sehwag will never score a gritty century. Let me show you the gritty centuries he has already scored:

1. In his debut, Sehwag scored 105 against South Africa in South Africa, coming in at 68/4
2. Against Australia in Adelaide just last January, Sehwag curbed his natural instinct to score a potentially match-saving 151 in the second innings after opening with Irfan Pathan (non-regular) and having to face a scoreboard that was essentially 140/6.
3. Against Australia in Chennai about 4 years ago (rain robbed India of the game), Sehwag scored 155 in a game where the rest of the top order scored about 170, setting up an actual opportunity to win the game if Australia were bowled out.
4. In his first game in Australia (I believe) in Melbourne, Sehwag scored 195 runs out of a total of 366, and smacked 5 sixes at the huge MCG ground.
5. Just six months ago against M&M at Galle, Sehwag blasted a 201 out of a team total of 329 (where only 2 other batsmen got to double figures) to allow India to remain competitive going into the deciding test.

And all these weren't just "lucky" innings hit by some two-bit slogger. I agree that Hayden is better since his career is now finished. However, you can only really readdress this question once Sehwag is done. As I said way earlier in this thread, if you looked at Hayden's career pre-30's he looked pretty disappointing. He hit his prime and dominated world cricket in the last 8 years and is admittedly been the best batsman of this millennium. Sehwag has just hit that age now and it appears that he may have hit his prime now, as well.
 
They aren't gritty innings though. They're just examples of Sehwag smashing his team out of trouble. Gilchrist used to do the same thing. Sehwag hasn't even made 100 with a strike-rate under 50. I doubt he'll ever play an innings like Hayden did at the Oval in 2005.

The reason Hayden's shots are classed as impressive compared to Sehwag's "dimwitted slogs" is because Hayden has a touch of class whilst Sehwag tries to smash the leather off the ball. When Hayden decides to go on the attack, it is used as a menacing tactic while Sehwag does it everytime he goes out to bat! Go watch Hayden in the 2007 World Cup compared to a typical Sehwag innings and you'll see the difference. Also, you can't score a triple-hundred without scoring quickly. :rolleyes:
 
That's because you're wrong ;) They're not equal, Hayden's far better. Hayden scored alot of his runs in an era dominated by the ball and by some of the greatest fast bowlers in the world. Sehwag's scored his runs on flat bowler friendly conditions against mediocre attacks (in comparison with the likes of Donald, Pollock, Wasim, Waqar, Ambrose etc). Sehwag's a good player, but no more than that, he's certainly not a great. Comparing Sehwag with Gayle would be a far better comparison.

Hayden failed miserably early in his career as he was against good quality
fast bowling attacks,In the 2000's against indian mediuym pacers his
comeback started,Most attacks in the world had lost their bite ,pollock
and donald were nearing their end,wasim and waqar had lost it,ambrose was retired.hayden shots are meant for medium pacers ,he is not a great cutter of the ball nor the greatest of pullers,he dominated the likes of nehra,balaji,pathan,pollock, and heaps of othe rmedium pacers,notably he was
a greta player of spinners and his decline started with improvement of fast bowling stocks in the world And People who say pitches he has played on are
not flat are probably living in another world.pitches all round the world are
flat,australia is no excpetion.except south africa most countries have flat pitches.so sorry to burst your bubble but hayden being a very good player
is not the greta player you make out him to be.similarly shewag has played
against weaker attacks in the past but he had also the australian attack
to deal with and now his test will come with good bowling attacks all round the world.
 
Sehwag hasn't even made 100 with a strike-rate under 50.
:rolleyes:

HAHAha a big LOL, the day he does that you'll start calling him selfish and ignorant to the teams situation they were in. Has a decent batsmen ever made a single century with less then 50S/R?

The reason Hayden's shots are classed as impressive compared to Sehwag's "dimwitted slogs" is because Hayden has a touch of class whilst Sehwag tries to smash the leather off the ball. :rolleyes:

You call Hayden's premeditated walk down the pitch to slog it over cover Class or dimwitted slogs?
 
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The majority of subcontient players are frauds. This is shown by the fact that only 3 subcontient players have averaged over 50 outside the subcontient.

Cricinfo Statsguru - Test matches - Batting records

Just because most of them do not average 50+ outside the subcontinent means that they are frauds. What a logic! :rolleyes: Keep in mind that most of the sub-continental countries started to play cricket after the '60's. And you guys (the aussies and the English) have been playing cricket for about 300 years. Yet only seven Englishman has an average of 50+ outside Europe and just four Aussies have an average of 50+ outside Oceania. This means that the other English and aussie guys are frauds! ( Including Sir Botham, Freddie, M.Waugh and your kucchi kucchi ko Pietersen ) :rolleyes: Wow :clap:clap Fantastic logic! If the sub-continental players be termed frauds simply because of this logic then guys like KP, Sir Ian, Freddie, Compton, Mark Waugh, Gilchrist, Greg Chappell are also frauds, big frauds.

Cricinfo Statsguru - Test matches - Batting records

Cricinfo Statsguru - Test matches - Batting records
 
srikarr12 said:
HAHAha a big LOL, the day he does that you'll start calling him selfish and ignorant to the teams situation they were in. Has a decent batsmen ever made a single century with less then 50S/R?
LOL, you don't watch much cricket do you? Plenty of great batsman attacking have scored 100's in difficult conditions with strike-rates of under 50. It just proves how verstile they are and how Sehwag isn't.

King Cricket said:
Just because most of them do not average 50+ outside the subcontinent means that they are frauds. What a logic! Keep in mind that most of the sub-continental countries started to play cricket after the '60's. And you guys (the aussies and the English) have been playing cricket for about 300 years. Yet only seven Englishman has an average of 50+ outside Europe and just four Aussies have an average of 50+ outside Oceania. This means that the other English and aussie guys are frauds! ( Including Sir Botham, Freddie, M.Waugh and your kucchi kucchi ko Pietersen ) Wow Fantastic logic! If the sub-continental players be termed frauds simply because of this logic then guys like KP, Sir Ian, Freddie, Compton, Mark Waugh, Gilchrist, Greg Chappell are also frauds, big frauds.
:rolleyes:

So you think it's harder for bowlers in Australia and England then it is in the subcontient? LOL!

England and Australia, along with South Africa are arguably the most difficult places for batsman to bat. England and South Africa provide swinging conditions and seaming pitches whilst the GABBA and WACA provide seam, Sydney provides spin and Melbourne & Hobart usually provide swinging conditions. Really the only two flat pitches out of the two countries is Adelaide and Lords.

The stats that I produced give a fair indication of how great subcontient players actually are and that the only subcontient batsman that deserve their accolades is Dravid, Gavaskar and Tendulkar. Thats why players like Matthew Hayden, Kevin Pietersen & Jacques Kallis are greater then the likes of Virender Sehwag, Mohammad Yousuf, Inzamam-ul-Haq, Kumar Sangakkara & Mahela Jayawardene.
 
LOL, you don't watch much cricket do you? Plenty of great batsman attacking have scored 100's in difficult conditions with strike-rates of under 50. It just proves how verstile they are and how Sehwag isn't.

So you think a guy like Dravid or Ponting can come out make a quickfire hundred like Sehwag and then suddenly go back into their shell and play their natural game? Name a batsmen who made a recent century in so called difficult conditions with a strike-rate of less then 50.

Do you even acknowledge some of the valid points people make or are you just too busy ranting on about how good hayden is?

Thats why players like Matthew Hayden, Kevin Pietersen & Jacques Kallis are greater then the likes of Virender Sehwag, Mohammad Yousuf, Inzamam-ul-Haq, Kumar Sangakkara & Mahela Jayawardene.

Kallis > any of the players you listed above anyday! Now he is versatile......
 
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I dunno about Dravid but certainly Ponting can play in a similar vain to Sehwag but by playing convertional cricket strokes. If you want to go check out 100's that have been scored by great batsman with strike-rates of less then 50 then go onto cricinfo and knock yourself out.

I take all points into consideration and 99% of the time my arguement destroys them which leads to constant whingeing from whoever I'm argueing against. That's why I'm so hated, because I bring a different opinion to this forum and I have solid arguements to back myself up. So much so that it is almost impossible to argue against and that's why I have heated arguements with the stubborn on this forum.

I'm always right, but feel free to argue at your own peral because you won't win. Just ask ZoraxDoom, because I've annilated him on this forum for the best part of the last 5 months.
 
I dunno about Dravid but certainly Ponting can play in a similar vain to Sehwag but by playing convertional cricket strokes. If you want to go check out 100's that have been scored by great batsman with strike-rates of less then 50 then go onto cricinfo and knock yourself out.

I take all points into consideration and 99% of the time my arguement destroys them which leads to constant whingeing from whoever I'm argueing against. That's why I'm so hated, because I bring a different opinion to this forum and I have solid arguements to back myself up. So much so that it is almost impossible to argue against and that's why I have heated arguements with the stubborn on this forum.

I'm always right, but feel free to argue at your own peral because you won't win. Just ask ZoraxDoom, because I've annilated him on this forum for the best part of the last 5 months.
Modest too, eH.
 
They aren't gritty innings though. They're just examples of Sehwag smashing his team out of trouble. Gilchrist used to do the same thing. Sehwag hasn't even made 100 with a strike-rate under 50. I doubt he'll ever play an innings like Hayden did at the Oval in 2005.

The reason Hayden's shots are classed as impressive compared to Sehwag's "dimwitted slogs" is because Hayden has a touch of class whilst Sehwag tries to smash the leather off the ball. When Hayden decides to go on the attack, it is used as a menacing tactic while Sehwag does it everytime he goes out to bat! Go watch Hayden in the 2007 World Cup compared to a typical Sehwag innings and you'll see the difference. Also, you can't score a triple-hundred without scoring quickly. :rolleyes:
And I'll doubt that Hayden has the talent or did have the talent to play some of the innings that Sehwag did against Mendis and Murali in SL. Everyone saw how hayden blindly tried to slog everything the Indian bowlers threw at him in the 4th innings of the 4th test recently. And we saw how miserably he failed.
When Hayden comes down the track, or blindly swings at everything, it's "conventional" cricket strokes. But when a cricketer by the name of Sehwag does it, its a slogfest?
 

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