Player Management & 'Rest'

[icyman]

I wanted to specifically talk about the latest buzz word 'Rest' here. We have seen many teams rotate a few players just to get them ready for 'what ifs'. However, the likes of England and India have taken player management to a hitherto new level in the recent past. England have been at it for quite some time and this has led to popular players being rested every now and then. What bemuses me is the fact that only certain players are rotated- we see the likes of Anderson frequently rested, but not some one like a Stokes.

With India, it is entirely different- I believe, the concept of resting a player arises when the player has had enough. Bumrah, in this case, probably wanted some time off. However, these very players do not rest themselves from league cricket games. Brings forth the question- can the home board ask them to not to play during leagues, especially given that some of these are contracted to their home baords?

 

[wasteyouryouth]

I wanted to specifically talk about the latest buzz word 'Rest' here. We have seen many teams rotate a few players just to get them ready for 'what ifs'. However, the likes of England and India have taken player management to a hitherto new level in the recent past. England have been at it for quite some time and this has led to popular players being rested every now and then. What bemuses me is the fact that only certain players are rotated- we see the likes of Anderson frequently rested, but not some one like a Stokes.

With India, it is entirely different- I believe, the concept of resting a player arises when the player has had enough. Bumrah, in this case, probably wanted some time off. However, these very players do not rest themselves from league cricket games. Brings forth the question- can the home board ask them to not to play during leagues, especially given that some of these are contracted to their home baords?

England have essentially withdrawn Wood, Atkinson and Archer from the IPL. A key facet of central contracts is it gives the board/national team the ability to manage the workload of players, in particular fast bowlers. I'm not sure if Wood has ever played in The Hundred, Stokes has played one or two matches. Cummins and Starc basically play international cricket and IPL (Starc hasn't even done that).

I'd expect with Bumrah, still not far that from a long lay-off and a long World Cup, five test matches is a lot. Physically they might have felt like four tests is the most he can do before risking an injury. He's bowled as many overs as he might in the entire IPL, which lasts forever.

BCCI could ask them not to play, or rest, during the IPL but they have a stake in it and may have similar agreements that the SA20 has which gives franchises control of the player during the tournament.

If I was India I'd want Bumrah to play every test match possible and if that means he may need to rest (by his choice or workload management, or a combination) that's better than not having him.

 

[Bevab]

There’s two facets here, one is a general response and another is specific towards the examples provided or frequently discussed.

In general, I think player workload management is essential in today’s day and age. The art of fast bowling at high intensity is a huge stress on the human body and one that it is scarcely equipped to deal with (I don’t think enough this is realised quite enough). I don’t think Australia retain the 2019 Ashes without their bowler rotation and I’m quite confident in saying that they would have won the last home series against India and the most recent Ashes if they had indulged in more rotation, it almost felt like they didn’t do so in opposition to Langer.

Coming over to the mix of general and specific… league cricket does seem to be getting prioritised by certain boards but I don’t think it’s done by players necessarily. Almost every account of a sportsperson I’ve read indicates that they hate missing games, whether that’s due to rotation or injury and it does make sense, you don’t get to the top level of any sport without having a hyper competitive mentality. Even the ones that get criticised as lackadaisical like a lot of Brazilian footballers have more competitive spirit and motivation in them than most other people. Anderson and Broad are notorious examples of this but as I’ve pointed above I also believe the Aussie pacers don’t like being rested either, it’s not a coincidence that Langer stopped rotating them towards the later part of his doomed coaching stint and that McDonald has chosen to not indulge in it for the most part. Southee still keeps playing nearly every fixture possible for NZ even when he’s not suited to white ball cricket anymore and Wagner simply refuses to go away when he’s barely touching 130 kph these days.

Now… onto the specifics… in the case of Anderson… the man’s over forty now. Expecting him to turn up for every test is quite optimistic. This was the same bloke that very nearly lost his career due to a changed bowling action and injuries a couple of decades ago. In the case of Bumrah he’s bowled the most number of overs among Indian pacers since his test debut despite being the quickest bowler we have of international standard and having an extremely risky bowling action. FWIW, I do think he’s far more durable than people give him credit for, he’s seventh on the list of most overs bowled by a pacer in test since his debut and the number of overs he has bowled per innings of test cricket is almost equal to the likes of Cummins and Anderson whilst being more than Broad. That’s not really the mark of someone who likes taking time off or resting himself of his own volition.

I think our fans have a confirmation bias when it comes to players playing in and missing the IPL. The talk last year was that Bumrah would be magically fit for the IPL and then breakdown before the two ODI tournaments… except that didn’t really happen. Likewise, Shreyas missed the entirety of last year’s IPL and half of 2021’s IPL. Bhuvi missed a large portion of 2020’s IPL. These aren’t really talked about though or are conveniently forgotten until the next time when someone is rotated. I’ve seen serious criticism of Kohli for not planning his wife’s delivery to happen during the IPL and instead having it coincide with the current test series. It becomes hard to have a serious or nuanced discussion on the topic when you’ve got comments like that flying around in most other places. Coming back to Bumrah… he’s bowled over a hundred overs in this series alone. That’s forty more than he usually bowls in the IPL and unlike in the IPL he has to bowl these overs in a much shorter duration of time and in much worse conditions for bowling physically.

Now, I do think there’s an argument to be made for league cricket to have players be rested or managed fitness wise. This would be the ideal time for the BCCI to do so with the IPL given a WC follows immediately after. However, the BCCI has invested itself into branding the IPL as the world’s best exhibition of T20 cricket and it becomes a challenge to make that true when you do pull your own players out of it. It’s the same for the PCB with the PSL which is why Shaheen plays in it even if he’s utterly exhausted. CSA with the SA20 have ensured that a similar protocol is to be followed in their ‘deal with the devil’ and the CPL is equally a private entity that isn’t really beholden to the WICB if I’m right. On the other hand… the BBL exists to profit off the holiday season and bring in a younger audience into cricket and the 100 was primarily made to have some form of cricket regularly on FTA TV. NZC has never seriously built up the Super Smash to be anything more than a domestic tournament. I don’t think any player is going to request for rest from a competition like the IPL because they’re hyper-competitive and also because it does pay a lot of money and potential exposure.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

There’s two facets here, one is a general response and another is specific towards the examples provided or frequently discussed.

In general, I think player workload management is essential in today’s day and age. The art of fast bowling at high intensity is a huge stress on the human body and one that it is scarcely equipped to deal with (I don’t think enough this is realised quite enough). I don’t think Australia retain the 2019 Ashes without their bowler rotation and I’m quite confident in saying that they would have won the last home series against India and the most recent Ashes if they had indulged in more rotation, it almost felt like they didn’t do so in opposition to Langer.

Coming over to the mix of general and specific… league cricket does seem to be getting prioritised by certain boards but I don’t think it’s done by players necessarily. Almost every account of a sportsperson I’ve read indicates that they hate missing games, whether that’s due to rotation or injury and it does make sense, you don’t get to the top level of any sport without having a hyper competitive mentality. Even the ones that get criticised as lackadaisical like a lot of Brazilian footballers have more competitive spirit and motivation in them than most other people. Anderson and Broad are notorious examples of this but as I’ve pointed above I also believe the Aussie pacers don’t like being rested either, it’s not a coincidence that Langer stopped rotating them towards the later part of his doomed coaching stint and that McDonald has chosen to not indulge in it for the most part. Southee still keeps playing nearly every fixture possible for NZ even when he’s not suited to white ball cricket anymore and Wagner simply refuses to go away when he’s barely touching 130 kph these days.

Now… onto the specifics… in the case of Anderson… the man’s over forty now. Expecting him to turn up for every test is quite optimistic. This was the same bloke that very nearly lost his career due to a changed bowling action and injuries a couple of decades ago. In the case of Bumrah he’s bowled the most number of overs among Indian pacers since his test debut despite being the quickest bowler we have of international standard and having an extremely risky bowling action. FWIW, I do think he’s far more durable than people give him credit for, he’s seventh on the list of most overs bowled by a pacer in test since his debut and the number of overs he has bowled per innings of test cricket is almost equal to the likes of Cummins and Anderson whilst being more than Broad. That’s not really the mark of someone who likes taking time off or resting himself of his own volition.

I think our fans have a confirmation bias when it comes to players playing in and missing the IPL. The talk last year was that Bumrah would be magically fit for the IPL and then breakdown before the two ODI tournaments… except that didn’t really happen. Likewise, Shreyas missed the entirety of last year’s IPL and half of 2021’s IPL. Bhuvi missed a large portion of 2020’s IPL. These aren’t really talked about though or are conveniently forgotten until the next time when someone is rotated. I’ve seen serious criticism of Kohli for not planning his wife’s delivery to happen during the IPL and instead having it coincide with the current test series. It becomes hard to have a serious or nuanced discussion on the topic when you’ve got comments like that flying around in most other places. Coming back to Bumrah… he’s bowled over a hundred overs in this series alone. That’s forty more than he usually bowls in the IPL and unlike in the IPL he has to bowl these overs in a much shorter duration of time and in much worse conditions for bowling physically.

Now, I do think there’s an argument to be made for league cricket to have players be rested or managed fitness wise. This would be the ideal time for the BCCI to do so with the IPL given a WC follows immediately after. However, the BCCI has invested itself into branding the IPL as the world’s best exhibition of T20 cricket and it becomes a challenge to make that true when you do pull your own players out of it. It’s the same for the PCB with the PSL which is why Shaheen plays in it even if he’s utterly exhausted. CSA with the SA20 have ensured that a similar protocol is to be followed in their ‘deal with the devil’ and the CPL is equally a private entity that isn’t really beholden to the WICB if I’m right. On the other hand… the BBL exists to profit off the holiday season and bring in a younger audience into cricket and the 100 was primarily made to have some form of cricket regularly on FTA TV. NZC has never seriously built up the Super Smash to be anything more than a domestic tournament. I don’t think any player is going to request for rest from a competition like the IPL because they’re hyper-competitive and also because it does pay a lot of money and potential exposure.

RCB fans when Anushka is 11 months pregnant: can't she wait a little longer, until after the IPL?

 

[Bevab]

RCB fans when Anushka is 11 months pregnant: can't she wait a little longer, until after the IPL?

I do think it’s quite clear that some of the geniuses on social media who were serious in their suggestions of “Kohli should have planned his pregnancy better to coincide with the IPL” either have no clue about how female biology/pregnancy works or haven’t known the touch of a woman. I genuinely don’t know which one is worse.

 

[Aislabie]

Would anyone rather Bumrah having to bowl at about 60% in 100% of games like Shaheen has to? I know for one I'd rather him able to operate at 100% even if he only plays 60% of games.

Workload management like this should absolutely just be normal.

 

[ShamiLoverGlipGlops]

Would anyone rather Bumrah having to bowl at about 60% in 100% of games like Shaheen has to? I know for one I'd rather him able to operate at 100% even if he only plays 60% of games.

Workload management like this should absolutely just be normal.

THIS x100. I would rather have Bumrah play with 100% intensity in 50% of the games for India then have him play 100% games bowling 120 kmph deliveries. Someone like Bumrah has also gone through injuries and he knows his body.

Also unlike 10 years ago, dynamics in Cricket has changed. You do not play just 10 ODIs, 10 Tests and 3-5 T20's a year. You play double amount of cricket and with that you are allowed to "REST".

Also this gives other players an opportunity to make a name for themselves. Remember if Ishant was not dropped/rested for the 1st Test in SA in 2018, we would not have seen Bumrah. Cycle will continue with newer players.

 

[icyman]

I do think it’s quite clear that some of the geniuses on social media who were serious in their suggestions of “Kohli should have planned his pregnancy better to coincide with the IPL” either have no clue about how female biology/pregnancy works or haven’t known the touch of a woman. I genuinely don’t know which one is worse.

Utter rubbish! To expect female to deliver at a particular time is completely preposterous. Been hearing that the child could have been born premature and hence the high stakes, which forced them to head to London. Anyhow,glad all is well at their end.

Workload management like this should absolutely just be normal.

Shouldn't it be better balanced though with the replenishment of the bench strength? During the Bharat Arun days, Bumrah's absence wouldn't have been felt . Today though, it makes a gaping hole in the side.

THIS x100. I would rather have Bumrah play with 100% intensity in 50% of the games for India then have him play 100% games bowling 120 kmph deliveries. Someone like Bumrah has also gone through injuries and he knows his body.

Why only Bumrah though? Shami is out for the same reason,yes. However, I haven't seen boards resting their captains/keepers despite tedious workloads. Why though? Why haven't we seen the likes of Rohit, Stokes being rested?

 

[Aislabie]

Why haven't we seen the likes of Rohit,

Because the physical toll of bowling fast is completely different to that of batting.

Stokes being rested?

We do regularly - he basically doesn't play white ball cricket outside of World Cups, and barely (if at all) plays for Durham.

 

[ShamiLoverGlipGlops]

Utter rubbish! To expect female to deliver at a particular time is completely preposterous. Been hearing that the child could have been born premature and hence the high stakes, which forced them to head to London. Anyhow,glad all is well at their end.

Shouldn't it be better balanced though with the replenishment of the bench strength? During the Bharat Arun days, Bumrah's absence wouldn't have been felt . Today though, it makes a gaping hole in the side.


Why only Bumrah though? Shami is out for the same reason,yes. However, I haven't seen boards resting their captains/keepers despite tedious workloads. Why though? Why haven't we seen the likes of Rohit, Stokes being rested?

Rohit Sharma constantly rested before the ODI world cup. Ben Stokes is hardly available with his injuries and only plays 2 format. I had a post last year where I had mentioned Rohit played only 50% of India's game between 2019 WC and 2023 WC. If Kohli was available for all 5 tests, I am sure they would have rested Rohit for a game or two and let Bumrah captain.

 

[Bevab]

Why only Bumrah though? Shami is out for the same reason,yes. However, I haven't seen boards resting their captains/keepers despite tedious workloads. Why though? Why haven't we seen the likes of Rohit, Stokes being rested?

Mate… you were complaining for nearly two years that all Rohit did was skip tours and games under the guise of rest...

 

[icyman]

Mate… you were complaining for nearly two years that all Rohit did was skip tours and games under the guise of rest...

My question was more generic. Since, players are being rested, we haven't seen them rest someone like Rohit, who clearly seems fatigued by the Tests. Or the rest doesn't seem to apply to the captain. Even in the case of England, have rarely seen them rest the skipper. Why?

Also, let us take a step backward and note that Bumrah didn't feature in the SA ODI+T20 series after the CWC23. Does he really require that kind of rest? If so, there's definitely a concern with his ability to cope with the rising demands. In such a scenario, it might be better for him to take a call on the format he wants to withdraw from.

The main difference between India and England being that, Indians tend to rest every now and then, and then are welcomed back into the team with open arms(always in the case of ICC events). Those who perform during their rest period aren't rewarded.

 

[Bevab]

My question was more generic. Since, players are being rested, we haven't seen them rest someone like Rohit, who clearly seems fatigued by the Tests. Or the rest doesn't seem to apply to the captain. Even in the case of England, have rarely seen them rest the skipper. Why?

Also, let us take a step backward and note that Bumrah didn't feature in the SA ODI+T20 series after the CWC23. Does he really require that kind of rest? If so, there's definitely a concern with his ability to cope with the rising demands. In such a scenario, it might be better for him to take a call on the format he wants to withdraw from.

The main difference between India and England being that, Indians tend to rest every now and then, and then are welcomed back into the team with open arms(always in the case of ICC events). Those who perform during their rest period aren't rewarded.

It’s been pointed out to you that Stokes does get plenty of rest. You were complaining about Rohit being rested all the time for a captain before the WC and now you’re arguing the contrary. It’s also been pointed out to you that batters get less rest compared to bowlers due to the physical demands. At this point I’m not sure if you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing whilst ignoring everything that’s being said…

I’d also like to know who is that mythical pacer who performed in the absence of Bumrah and then got unfairly dropped. At this point I wonder if you simply don’t like Bumrah or the Indian team since you keep indirectly advocating for him to not play for the side all the time.

 

[icyman]

I am speaking generically @Bevab . Not pointing out each and every discussion here. Yes, I get that bowlers require more rest, that Stokes gets plenty, that Rohit as been rested earlier - but it still doesn't answer why Bumrah is given preferential treatment.

I’d also like to know who is that mythical pacer who performed in the absence of Bumrah and then got unfairly dropped. At this point I wonder if you simply don’t like Bumrah or the Indian team since you keep indirectly advocating for him to not play for the side all the time.

The main aim of this post isn't to point out Bumrah, as you've mistakenly believed. I have also not mentioned that any other pacer performed better than Bumrah during his absence. By my comment above, was merely referring to the the blokes who did well in T20 prior to WT2021 and were shunted aside cause some demi-Gods chose to come back to the side.

Furthermore, post the England series, the only high profile event that we are looking forth to would be the WT20. Bumrah could easily stretch himself, given the rather longish breaks+fitness regime in the Indian team. His rest period just comes across as 'need to rest, need to be fit for the IPL'- where he will not complain and play all games.

 

[Bevab]

I am speaking generically @Bevab . Not pointing out each and every discussion here. Yes, I get that bowlers require more rest, that Stokes gets plenty, that Rohit as been rested earlier - but it still doesn't answer why Bumrah is given preferential treatment.



The main aim of this post isn't to point out Bumrah, as you've mistakenly believed. I have also not mentioned that any other pacer performed better than Bumrah during his absence. By my comment above, was merely referring to the the blokes who did well in T20 prior to WT2021 and were shunted aside cause some demi-Gods chose to come back to the side.

Furthermore, post the England series, the only high profile event that we are looking forth to would be the WT20. Bumrah could easily stretch himself, given the rather longish breaks+fitness regime in the Indian team. His rest period just comes across as 'need to rest, need to be fit for the IPL'- where he will not complain and play all games.

If you’re actually being ‘generic’ as you claim… then why not mention Siraj who got rested in the second test?

2021 was more than two years ago, under a different coach and captain entirely. Why would even bring that up now randomly?

Again you’re speculating with Bumrah. He missed the entirety of last year’s IPL for rehabilitation. You’ve also ignored the numbers I put up showing how much less the workload is in the IPL compared to a test cricket series. It could well be a case of the management resting him rather than him demanding rest like you claim in every post which would run contrary to the mentality of nearly every sportsperson. You just complained that he didn’t play in a rather meaningless white ball series post a long WC so I’m not sure where he gets those longish breaks in your universe since you’re on his back in particular everytime he doesn’t play.

Post automatically merged: Feb 23, 2024

Would anyone rather Bumrah having to bowl at about 60% in 100% of games like Shaheen has to? I know for one I'd rather him able to operate at 100% even if he only plays 60% of games.

Workload management like this should absolutely just be normal.

At this point I just assume you’d prefer Bumrah to bowl at 60% in 100% of the games he plays rather than 100% in 60% of the games he plays and also have an increased risk of injury. @icyman