second team averages

[dmac]

i was wondering how 2nd team averages depict a players potential and how you go about getting a player to reach similar averages in first class and one day matches. Ive had some saved games where players would have 2nd team batting averages of like 55 and average around high 40's in first class and one day but ive also had saved games where the first class and one day averages are alot lower than the second team averages, same goes with bowlers. I play mainly the older icc's ( 01,05,06) dont ask me why i just like them better than the newer ones, but ye basically i was wondering what is the key in getting those 'star' second team players to reach their full potential.

 

[6ry4nj]

Second team averages do not depict potential. I doubt you will ever get a player to perform as well in firsts as they do in seconds. Which is as you might expect, because the quality of the opposition in seconds is really a lot lower on average.

There is a huge gulf between firsts and seconds performances. If you want a batsman who will bat at 40 in FC, you should look for seconds averages in at least the mid-50s. For bowlers, it's a case of as low an average as possible. Even a seconds average of 22 does not guarantee they can step up and bowl at under 30 to the 'big boys'.

Of course, if you play someone in seconds for long enough, they will eventually (maybe) get into a streak of good form, which is a good time to move them up to firsts, as they are then more likely (no guarantees) to perform well. Then of course there is the option of playing them in really easy or unimportant games, especially Uni games - although you probably don't have many of those in your versions.

 

[dmac]

ok in light of what you just said, ive got two youth bowlers in my team averaging at under 18 for second team, yet have first class bowling averages of like30-40 where as this guy for yorkshire had a second team average of 23 and heres his first team average, its his first season aswell. Oh and both my youth bowlers have good one day averages, one of them even playing a few one dayers for england.

 

[6ry4nj]

ok in light of what you just said, ive got two youth bowlers in my team averaging at under 18 for second team, yet have first class bowling averages of like30-40 where as this guy for yorkshire had a second team average of 23 and heres his first team average, its his first season aswell. Oh and both my youth bowlers have good one day averages, one of them even playing a few one dayers for england.

Don't know what I can tell you. It doesn't change anything I said. Of course:
- anomalies do happen (as in real-life)
- some players struggle with the 'step-up' (as irl)
- some players are better than others (as irl), which would seem to cover your Yorkshire example

If your bowlers have seconds averages under 20 over any length of career, they almost certainly will come good in firsts. Keep playing them when they're in form, and if that means not playing them again this season, I still would advocate holding onto them. Some players come good from nowhere based apparently on age - although I can't tell you what age as this too varies.

And in my version (09), I rarely if ever see youth bowlers with records that good on the market, so it's not like you can easily replace them.

 

[dmac]

kk well in saying that then, what are some good combinations with coaching to make a player better, e.g if form drops give them net practice until the form rises then back to technique

 

[6ry4nj]

kk well in saying that then, what are some good combinations with coaching to make a player better, e.g if form drops give them net practice until the form rises then back to technique

This relates to the versions I know about - 06 and 09 to 11.

Net practice cannot raise 'effective' form above 60 if match form is below 50. Bowlers with averages in the mid to high thirties are only marginally playable with their form at 60. (This of course relates to FC and maybe Tests - in any other format that average is simply not good enough unless form is really high).

If match form is 50 or above, net practice can raise (effective) form to 69 (although it takes about a week, maybe more). This is the best that can be achieved by net practice. If you can get your bowler's effective form to around this level (3 and a half stars), it's probably worth playing them. Otherwise, you just have to be patient until they hit some real form.

Its also a risk taking them off technique, as you never know what progress they might have made if you left them on it. Then again, technique training seems to have no effect most of the time.

 

[dmac]

so what is the most effective way to develop a player then.

 

[DR_DEATH]

In ICC2011 when I get a new youth player I leave them in 2nd team on technique training until they show results good enough for a promotion.

One opener I had came in with a 55 2nd team average I left him on second team for the rest of the season with no training at all. At the end of the year I re-signed him and played him in some matches the following year and he performed well he got selected for England in the ensuing off-season. That is probably an extreme example but it shows that training is not as necessary to player development as you think it is as some players will develop a lot earlier and some will also develop a lot later.

 

[6ry4nj]

so what is the most effective way to develop a player then.

In ICC2011 when I get a new youth player I leave them in 2nd team on technique training until they show results good enough for a promotion.

One opener I had came in with a 55 2nd team average I left him on second team for the rest of the season with no training at all. At the end of the year I re-signed him and played him in some matches the following year and he performed well he got selected for England in the ensuing off-season. That is probably an extreme example but it shows that training is not as necessary to player development as you think it is as some players will develop a lot earlier and some will also develop a lot later.

Good observation. You have three tools you can use with youth players:
- playing them
- technique training
- patience (not playing or training them)

Use them all and back yourself ie. don't keep second-guessing yourself. Confidence in your own approach is as important as anything else, as 'changing horses in midstream' maybe counter-productive. If you don't have success, no need to blame your tactics, as the player might need another year before they can step up.

 

[Idlers]

ok in light of what you just said, ive got two youth bowlers in my team averaging at under 18 for second team, yet have first class bowling averages of like30-40 where as this guy for yorkshire had a second team average of 23 and heres his first team average, its his first season aswell. Oh and both my youth bowlers have good one day averages, one of them even playing a few one dayers for england.

I think i may be able to answer your query as I have suffered the same thing... had bowlers with awesome 2nd and OD averages who didn't seem to step up at FC.

What bowling tactics do you use in FC? I recently changed my tactics and now my stars are delivering...

Previously i was starting attacking and then coming down to an aggression level of 2 or 3, this resulted in not many wickets and lots of draws (as it took teams longer to post a total when you're bowling defensively at them + wickets coming slower). What i am now doing is keeping the aggression at 5 and field at default 2. This results in similar totals but in a much shorter space of time (and sometimes the odd collapse, especially on day 4).

Your bowlers averages should come toppling down as the aggressive bowlers get their just desserts. Give it a try, may be it's just me?

 

[Hooper]

Something about technique training...

Does it even bloody do anything? I need some sort of guide on if it actually does anything or some sort of progress is shown?

I've left technique training on players for a while but I just never seem to see any results? Does anything pop up and tell you your player is improving or what?

(I've got a save file with Western Australia & Australia.. And I've also got a just Australia file)

 

[6ry4nj]

Something about technique training...

Does it even bloody do anything? I need some sort of guide on if it actually does anything or some sort of progress is shown?

I've left technique training on players for a while but I just never seem to see any results? Does anything pop up and tell you your player is improving or what?

(I've got a save file with Western Australia & Australia.. And I've also got a just Australia file)

I'm fairly sure I've never had a message that General technique training has worked (batting or bowling). Hopefully it works on some sort of gradual scale unlike the specific versions, and that's why you don't get a message.

I was a bit upset when I saw that your days of technique training resets every season. We can only hope it has still worked on some incremental level. I don't know of course but I am assuming this fairly confidently.

To be realistic, I would expect that it works with different players at different/varying/random rates.

 

[Hooper]

I'm fairly sure I've never had a message that General technique training has worked (batting or bowling). Hopefully it works on some sort of gradual scale unlike the specific versions, and that's why you don't get a message.

I was a bit upset when I saw that your days of technique training resets every season. We can only hope it has still worked on some incremental level. I don't know of course but I am assuming this fairly confidently.

To be realistic, I would expect that it works with different players at different/varying/random rates.

Hmm...Thats pretty crap. No status on how training affects the player then. Might need to get Sureshot in here.