Hayden Vs Sehwag

[Precambrian]

What do you consider swinging conditions? Does it not swing in Australia?

I don't know about Hayden. But the ball hardly swings in Australia.

Also, if anyone struggles in swinging conditions it's Sehwag. At least Hayden's got some footwork, Sehwag relies purely on his hand-eye co-ordination and bowlers bowling short and wide. As soon as Jimmy Anderson worked that out, and bowled inswingers into his pads, he started to struggle. Hayden's a far better player than Sehwag.

Hayden and footwork? Lolz.

He struggled mighty in the Ashes of 2005 against Simon Jones and Hoggard that it was not funny.

He has this tentative forward movement and is always prone for nicking one behind. He counters against the likes of Irfan Pathan by walking down the pitch or standing 1 metre outside the crease. It is a defect which he has not corrected.

Besides, the way when he came up against genuine quicks, like Steyn, Morkel etc, he has struggled. He has struggled everywhere outside Australia except West Indies (worst test class team) and India (only in 2001 though).

Hayden's away average is 41 against Sehwag's 51.

I could go on and on, but I don't want to risk being marked as spamming.

 

[King Pietersen]

Lol, do you watch cricket? 'Hayden' and 'tentative forward movement' should never be used in the same sentence, Hayden's got the most front foot dominated technique in the world. He always makes a massive movement forwards and it's very rare to see him playing a long period of time on the back foot.

I love that a Sehwag fan is dismissing Hayden because of a lack of foot movement and struggling against swing. Sehwag never moves his feet, ever, and although his career stats are better than Haydens at the current time, Hayden's record was better after the same amount of Tests.

Sehwag will not be remembered as one of the greats of the game, whereas Hayden is up there alongside the great openers of past generations, he's up there with Hobbs and Sutcliffe for me. He's a fantastic player, and far better than Sehwag will ever be.

 

[ZoraxDoom]

Time for some stats...'failure' is used instead of 'averaged under 50'.

Viru: 5617 runs at 51.06, 18 fifties, 15 hundreds, strike rate of 78.14
Haydo: 8625 runs at 50.73, 29 fifties, 30 hundreds, strike rate of 60.10


Viru has failed vs. Bangladesh (2 innings, 23 runs), New Zealand (8 innings, 217 runs), and England (18 innings, 527 runs). Averages over 50 against everyone else, and a remarkable 91 against Pakistan. He has failed in South Africa (238 runs, 9 innings), New Zealand (4 innings, 40 runs), England (237 runs in 6 innings) and Bangladesh (2 innings, 23 runs). Averages over 50 everywhere else, 91 in Pak, 68 in SL.

Averaged 52, 63 and 60 between 2003 and 2006, and 56 in 2008. Only one year of an average below 39.50, and that was 2007, where he had just one test match.


Hayden has failed against Bangladesh (168 runs in 5 innings), England (1461 runs in 35 innings), New Zealand (658 in 18 innings), Pakistan (374 in 10 innings) and RSA (1486 in 36 innings). He averages 250 against Zim (2 matches), 94 against World XI, and 59 against India (35 innings). He has failed in Bangladesh (107 in 3 inn), England (552 in 18), RSA (624 in 18), Sri Lanka (321 in 8) and New Zealand (197 in 7), averages 63 in WI and 104 (2 matches) in UAE.

Averaged 63, 72, 77 from 01-03 and 53 in 05 and 07. He barely played in his first 3 years, so discount those, and he has two years averaging 40, and 2 averaging 30 (excluding 2009).

So, surprisingly. Viru is more consistent around the world and scores quicker too. Averages slightly more as well. They both have 'failed' in England, NZ, and RSA.

Discuss...

 

[Precambrian]

I love that a Sehwag fan is dismissing Hayden because of a lack of foot movement and struggling against swing. Sehwag never moves his feet, ever, and although his career stats are better than Haydens at the current time, Hayden's record was better after the same amount of Tests.

His record was better sorely because of that 380 against Zimbabwe.

And I can only laugh at the suggestion that Hayden will be remembered as one of the greatest openers!

He doesn't better Sehwag even in Australia.

 

[aussie_ben91]

I don't know about Hayden. But the ball hardly swings in Australia.

You live in India, how would you know? Melbourne and Hobart are equally overcast as New Zealand and Hayden's made like 6 hundreds at the MCG infront of 90k people on Boxing Day, so yeah.

Hayden and footwork? Lolz.

He struggled mighty in the Ashes of 2005 against Simon Jones and Hoggard that it was not funny.

He has this tentative forward movement and is always prone for nicking one behind. He counters against the likes of Irfan Pathan by walking down the pitch or standing 1 metre outside the crease. It is a defect which he has not corrected.

Besides, the way when he came up against genuine quicks, like Steyn, Morkel etc, he has struggled. He has struggled everywhere outside Australia except West Indies (worst test class team) and India (only in 2001 though).

Hayden's away average is 41 against Sehwag's 51.

I could go on and on, but I don't want to risk being marked as spamming.

Most subcontient batsman seem to dominate in the subcontient but struggle outside of it. It's harder for non-subcontient batsman to dominate in the subcontient, which is what Hayden has done. Sehwag has struggled outside the subcontient (and Windies) and only played well against Australia when McGrath wasn't playing.

Hayden hardly struggled against Steyn and didn't struggle against Morkel.

 

[ZoraxDoom]

BTW, I think both will be legends in their countries, neither in a world-wide perspective...

Both were nearly identical, look at the stats! Viru averaged well in more places and against more teams than Hayden, but they both struggled in good bowling conditions.

Hayden was a better converter of his starts, and more dependable. Viru scored quicker and larger, indicating more dips and failures. Hayden didn't have as many crap performances as Viru, yet at the same time didn't reach Viru's heights.

They both put fear in the opposition bowlers, they both did the same job for their countries, they both were great match winners, you can't pick! Viru dominated Pak heavily but failed in good bowling conditions, Hayden was poor in good conditions but not as poor as Sehwag, and dominated India, but to a lesser extent...

Indians will say Sehwag, Aussies will say Hayden. The rest will be mostly split. I'd have neither opening my All-Time XI, yet have often wondered how awesome they both would be together. We can somewhat see this with Gambhir -another lefty who walks down the track to quicks- partnering Viru, and mayber Warner partnering Hayden. Not the real deal, but close enough. And it's lethal.

They both were dangerous, both were great for their countries, but they both are equal. It is down to personal taste, to insinuate that one is greater than the other is rubbish, cause neither is better than the other...

 

[Precambrian]

You live in India, how would you know? Melbourne and Hobart are equally overcast as New Zealand and Hayden's made like 6 hundreds at the MCG infront of 90k people on Boxing Day, so yeah.

Lol, Shows your myopic view of cricket. Wake up son, cricket is played not only in Australia. Just because he has made 6 100s in a particular ground that too in his country does not make him any better.

Most subcontient batsman seem to dominate in the subcontient but struggle outside of it. It's harder for non-subcontient batsman to dominate in the subcontient, which is what Hayden has done. Sehwag has struggled outside the subcontient (and Windies) and only played well against Australia when McGrath wasn't playing.

Tendulkar, Laxman, Dravid and Sehwag all have good records in Australia. And they make up 4 out of 6 of the Indian batting lineup. Gambhir is yet to play a test and only Dhoni and Yuvraj have struggled in Australia. Hayden had a good series in 2001, and after that he's struggled.

And why do you pick and choose "Sehwag didn't score when there was McGrath". Is it his fault that there was no McGrath when he toured Australia? And besides, one would expect a better reply from an attack that is supposedly the best in the world? Or Australia minus McGrath was mediocre, is that what you are implying?

Hayden hardly struggled against Steyn and didn't struggle against Morkel.

Yeah. Because he hardly lasted till Morkel was introduced.

 

[mukund_nadkarni]

Sehwag all the way! Hayden's a good bat, but if I had to pay to watch, I'll definitely go for Sehwag!

Also, why does scoring on a swinging pitch count for more than an Indian dust bowl?!! Just as much as subcontinental batsmen tend to struggle in swinging conditions, don't the English and Aussie cricketers struggle in spinning conditions in India?!

 

[aussie_ben91]

Sehwag's a subcontient bully. Struggles everywhere outside the subcontient barring the West Indies and only had success in Australia when McGrath and Warne weren't playing. He won't score near the ammount of 100's that Hayden has and won't average over 50 if he plays the same ammount of matches as Hayden. End of story.

 

[Precambrian]

Sehwag's a subcontient bully. Struggles everywhere outside the subcontient barring the West Indies and only had success in Australia when McGrath and Warne weren't playing. He won't score near the ammount of 100's that Hayden has and won't average over 50 if he plays the same ammount of matches as Hayden. End of story.

Load of crap.

Sehwag's stats

Hayden's stats

Sehwag would have blasted Warne as other subcontinental batsmen have done in the past.

Against McGrath, we never knew. I have good reason to believe he'd have smashed McGrath also considering he is now at his peak.

And is Australia such a terrible team that without McGrath and Warne, anyone can average near 60 against them?

Fail.

And Sehwag a subcontinent bully? Lolz. He has a bad average only in NZ (where he played only 2 tests, and too on pathetic pitches), and England (still better than Hayden's) and SA. And Hayden too has a bad record in all these places.

Sehwag scores at much better rate than Hayden also.

 

[mukund_nadkarni]

Sehwag would have blasted Warne as other subcontinental batsmen have done in the past.

Against McGrath, we never knew. I have good reason to believe he'd have smashed McGrath also considering he is now at his peak.

Sehwag would have blasted them both alright!

 

[deerkick]

Being Indian, I would have to say Hayden is the better batsman though, although I still enjoy watching Sehwag more. Also the inswinger argument against Sehwag is probably correct. If you notice, anything short and wide, he easily dismantles for four. But anything that swings inwards or gives him trouble like that, he gets either LBW or bowled.

Also Hayden has dominated for a longer period of time than Sehwag. Sehwag needs to keep a consistent form for a decent period of time to be considered Hayden's equal, and we all know Sehwag's main problem is consistency. BUT since I love Sehwag more, I'd rather have him in my team

 

[aussie_ben91]

Lol, Shows your myopic view of cricket. Wake up son, cricket is played not only in Australia. Just because he has made 6 100s in a particular ground that too in his country does not make him any better.

You make an arguement about how Hayden struggles in swinging conditions and I comprehensively dismiss your arguement so you bring up a totally irrelevant point. The ball SWINGS in Melbourne, it is usually overcast, even in the summer. You seem to rely on statistics and your knowledge on cricket is very limited. You've obviously never seen Hayden bat. Go watch videos of him in the World Cup of 2007, or in South Africa 2002, or Sharjah when he played a 7 hour innings in over 50 degree heat and made 119 in a match where little over 400 runs were scored. Sehwag could never match or come close to what Hayden has acchieved.

Tendulkar, Laxman, Dravid and Sehwag all have good records in Australia. And they make up 4 out of 6 of the Indian batting lineup. Gambhir is yet to play a test and only Dhoni and Yuvraj have struggled in Australia. Hayden had a good series in 2001, and after that he's struggled.

And why do you pick and choose "Sehwag didn't score when there was McGrath". Is it his fault that there was no McGrath when he toured Australia? And besides, one would expect a better reply from an attack that is supposedly the best in the world? Or Australia minus McGrath was mediocre, is that what you are implying?

Dravid and Sehwag's averages in Australia are flawed due to playing in the absence of McGrath and Warne. Hardly comparable to the records that the likes of Lara, Tendulkar and Pietersen have been able to produce.

 

[Precambrian]

Dravid and Sehwag's averages in Australia are flawed due to playing in the absence of McGrath and Warne. Hardly comparable to the records that the likes of Lara, Tendulkar and Pietersen have been able to produce.

Flawed? Again and again you are reiterating that Australian bowling attack is horsecrap without Warne and McGrath. Hahaha.

And Warne? Didn't you follow 2001 series mate? Indian batsmen have consistently owned him that it is not funny. Sehwag would have made him take early retirement.

McGrath is a bowler I respect and I concede there is a chance he'd have struggled against him. But again, who has not? Hayden would have massively struggled had he played instead of Sehwag also against McGrath and Warne.

 

[shravi]

You make an arguement about how Hayden struggles in swinging conditions and I comprehensively dismiss your arguement so you bring up a totally irrelevant point. The ball SWINGS in Melbourne, it is usually overcast, even in the summer. You seem to rely on statistics and your knowledge on cricket is very limited. You've obviously never seen Hayden bat. Go watch videos of him in the World Cup of 2007, or in South Africa 2002, or Sharjah when he played a 7 hour innings in over 50 degree heat and made 119 in a match where little over 400 runs were scored. Sehwag could never match or come close to what Hayden has acchieved.


Dravid and Sehwag's averages in Australia are flawed due to playing in the absence of McGrath and Warne. Hardly comparable to the records that the likes of Lara, Tendulkar and Pietersen have been able to produce.

You can't make an assumption like that!!! If they haven't played against them you don't know how well they'll do against them! You don't possess psychic abilities Ben, live with it!

I would choose Hayden. I was scared every time he came out to bat.