General Cricket Discussion

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Noticed Belgium lost a game by penalty runs yesterday. Malta the chasing side got bowled out 2 short of the target. The umpires reviewed the penalty runs after the chase with the scorers and Malta were awarded the win to draw 2-2 level in the series. After that Belgium won another T20 to go 3-2 up in the series. Assuming it's just a 5 match series though I didn't check. Shame Taylor didn't make the ton for Zimbabwe.
 
Just going to weigh in on the MSD debate doing the rounds a few pages ago- a leader is a visionary and one who tends to foresee/ adapt to circumstance. In his hey day, MSD won us many titles, but he lacked the adequate foresight- in terms of adapting to the game, succession planning, grooming the next crop of players. All in all, the respect I had for MSD earlier is simply not there anymore.

Winning a World Cup doesnt mean that you become a great leader all of a sudden. We have had a history of CWC winning captains talking pure shit- Kapil, Imran, Younis Khan(WT20) Ranatunga are some great examples.
John1990 said:
Where did I say he didn't know how to bat? I called him one of the most talented players in the history of the game apart from his ability to judge when to accelerate
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I have to agree with this one. He was talented, but like many 'demi-Gods' of Indian cricket, dragged himself and the game too long. MSD was finished sometime prior to the 2015 CWC- esp the series where he ran off from the captain's post like a coward. Just cause you are losing doesn't mean you give up and leave the team in tatters.

His inability to groom a proper successor (tests) raises a lot of eyebrows for a game who supposedly reads the game better than anyone else(as claimed by my fellow countrymen)

NILAYSHAH60 said:
Dhoni knew to pace his innings better than anyone else and he did know when to accelerate for the most part of his career. Things you say do more justice to Dhoni post 2014. Before that it's just sheer injustice.
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So, the question here is- why did MSD drag himself in the game? Why was he being a liability in the team? He lost the zing in a chase, stopped accelerating, dragged almost every game to the last over (except CSK ones) and created unnecessary pressure on his teammates.

In hindsight, had he retired after CWC 2015, India would have found enough time to groom the likes of Pant/Kishan/ Saha/DK for a proper role in CWC 2019. We all know what happened in the game v England, v Afghanistan (thankfully we won) and the semi-final v NZ.

The MSD -post 2014 (as you mention) was a pain to watch. Bet half the people in India turned off their televisions when he was batting.Atleast, I did!
 
I'll break down your post into different parts.

icyman said:
In his hey day, MSD won us many titles, but he lacked the adequate foresight- in terms of adapting to the game, succession planning, grooming the next crop of players
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Yes true he lacked the foresight as Captain but he knew the make the best use of an average side. Who were our bowlers in the 2015 WC? Umesh, Shami, Mohit, Jadeja & Ashwin. Do you think Umesh Yadav is actually a wicket taking option by any means? But still he was the highest wicket taker for India in that WC. Look at Shami's bowling before that tournament, he gave a boundary ball every over and was wayward. Mohit never actually had the pace but he got India crucial wickets that tournament. Ashwin has got a terrible record outside Asia in ODIs but still he got about 13 wickets in 8 matches. And we were winless on that Australia tour just before that WC. What magic worked for us in the WC? I tell you that is was Dhoni's brilliance that he instilled a belief in that side that they could still do a lot better and they just did.

And talking about Dhoni not knowing to groom new crop of players? He literally dropped his best players like Gambhir, Sehwag, Bhajji, Yuvraj, etc just to groom new players. He actually groomed players like Rohit, Kohli, Rahane, Pujara, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Ishant Sharma, Mohammed Shami, R Ashwin, Jadeja, etc.

icyman said:
he ran off from the captain's post like a coward. Just cause you are losing doesn't mean you give up and leave the team in tatters.
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I am literally amused to see such a comment from an Indian fan who literally lived this sport and has been a member from a long time on this forum. He ran away like cowards? What could he do by staying in a series that was already lost? And he probably stepped down at the right time since India were going to have a long home season which can probably give the new Captain a lot of breathing space and give him time to figure out what works for him. And if the new Captain didn't grab this opportunity it wasn't Dhoni's fault but more about the poor management from the board.


icyman said:
So, the question here is- why did MSD drag himself in the game? Why was he being a liability in the team?
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I am no BCCI to answer this. But I do agree that he messed up things many times trying to do what he did the best in the past. But then again it's a human phenomenon we probably trust our instincts more than the reality that is infront of us. I think anyone in this world would face it hard to accept that they are no longer as good as they were previously. And that is the thing with experienced players of India.
 
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