ESPN's Legends of Cricket?

[puddleduck]

My Dad could beat your Dad in fisticuffs

 

[stereotype]

Punter is a crap captain. A blind dog could lead Australia and get similar results.
And yes, Legends should only be those who have retired...

that doesnt change the fact Ponting averages 65.68 as captain...

the thing is it took about 10 matches for Ponting to get comfortable captaining and being the go to batsman....but if you actually take out the first 3 series, he has scored Bradmanesque figures....we say the art of fastbowling is in the decline....but apart from his own country he plays the same guys as Sachin and Brian do, but his figures are better. I would love to see him go to India in his current form and test his abilities.

in the last 10 series he has averaged 50 or more in 9 of them....and 7 of them he has averaged 72 or more....that is a very very good record, so regardless of your opinion on his captaincy he does lead from the front

 

[Adarsh]

Punter is a crap captain. A blind dog could lead Australia and get similar results.
And yes, Legends should only be those who have retired...

Not necessarily. Warne was a legend before he retired. So is Tendulkar and Lara. They've played the game for enough time and have shown the world what they've done. I have no doubt that even if Lara or Tendulkar fail from now they'll go down as legends.

 

[aussie_ben91]

Tendulkar as faced the new ball all his life, I cannot see how you can see Tendulkar as a flat track bully when he as scored runs all over the world, correct me if I am wrong, but he has scored 4 100s in Aus, 3 in Sa and 3 in Eng all agaisnt good bowling attacks, and tough conditions.

All great players have played great bowlers good, Ponting as failed against Wasim, Waqur and Donald, I'm not sure how he would have performed agaisnt his own bowling of Warne and Mcgrath. Ponting only averages 12.28 in India, he as struggled agaisnt spin in India, and a average like the is crazy. Tendulkar had to play good bowling on tough pitches for him when he just started playing intertional cricket. Remember those 2 100s agaisnt Australia?, ecspecially the one at Perth?, that was only his 3rd year of cricket and his first tour to Australia.

People expect too much from Tendulkar, in the late 90s people in India would expect a 100 from him in evrey match, even when Tendulkar scored a 100, India often lost the match, you dont know half of it, when Tendulkar failed in the 2003 world cup final people in India wanted him to retire despite of him scoring heavy in the world cup the games before leading to the final, Tendulkar as had to face the most pressure as a cricketer then any other cricketer alive, he as to drive his ferrari in the night.

As for captaincy, Tendulkar failed, but he had to captain a very weak team, and he needed to mature a bit, he captained India a bit early. Australia are a very, very strong side, any crap captain could captain Australia.

The same way Tendulkar can't play McGrath or Pollock without losing his wicket? Tendulkar was never successful in South Africa either. He was another one of Donald's bunnies.

I don't think Ponting averaging 97 against Waqar Younis is a bad effort either, especially if his supposedly his bunny.

I don't think overeggarating fans in Indian wanting him to be dropped because he failed in 1 innings is pressure. That's just ridiculous. Everyone has pressure... how much flack do you think Ponting's going to cop because he failed in the CBS final and Australia got mauled by England?

 

[m_vaughan]

have they done a shahid afridi episode?

The show would lose its credibility if they did that.

Also Ponting at his prime > Lara/Sachin at their prime. Period.

The Australian is just too good.

 

[Cricket_god]

Tendulkar at his prime was averaging above 60 and was good on all surfaces
and against the bowlers who were better than todays by a fair margin.Bradman knows a bit about cricket when he commented about tendulkar.I agree ponting is better than tendulkar on bouncy and flat tracks
but when it comes to low and slow tracks and playing spin he is nowhere near tendulkar and lara.his game is such so thats the price he has to pay to be very good on tracks with even bouce and no lateral movement.he is good
but not better than tendulkar or lara even in his prime also he did not face warne

 

[aussie_ben91]

Bradman never saw Ponting in his prime though and Ponting has improved leaps and bounds against spin bowling over the last few years that it's no longer a weakness but a strength for him when facing.
I think Ponting averaging in the mid 70s these days makes up for Ponting averaging around 60 back then aswell.
Tendulkar at his prime didn't produce results anywhere near Ponting's prime even if you take into account the bowling attacks.

 

[m_vaughan]

Ponting in the last five years has been a treat to the eyes. I have never seen any player so dominant and consistent. And I have seen the best of both Lara and Tendulkar. Its a whole lot more than who is more comfortable on what kind of wickets. While the Windies and India at one time were a one man team, Ponting has had to compete with some really fine cricketers in the Australian side to score runs. For me, he has just played too many crucial knocks and he is still going great guns.

 

[stereotype]

Tendulkar at his prime was averaging above 60 and was good on all surfaces
and against the bowlers who were better than todays by a fair margin.Bradman knows a bit about cricket when he commented about tendulkar.I agree ponting is better than tendulkar on bouncy and flat tracks
but when it comes to low and slow tracks and playing spin he is nowhere near tendulkar and lara.his game is such so thats the price he has to pay to be very good on tracks with even bouce and no lateral movement.he is good
but not better than tendulkar or lara even in his prime also he did not face warne

you say that then Tendulkar and Lara's performances in the last few years should be similarily freakish...but they arent.....Ponting..especially in Test cricket sometimes just never looks like he will get out and seeing as 7 out of the last 10 series he has played in he averages over 70, thats a fair bit different to over 60 and is freakish against any attack internationally....he is suspect against spin early on, but most batsmen are, no one plays short bowling or very quick bowling better...he has been very successful against the likes of Ntini, Shoaib, Harmison, and is also more than good against Murali and the like


here is his last 50 matches...basically the second half of his career

filtered 50 5395 257 71.93 20 20


without being too specific...but he averages more than 1000 runs per 10 tests...and a batting average of 72....also a century conversion rate of 50% is amazing


comparatively Sachin averages less than 50 in his last 50 tests with 49.7 in that time he has scored 9 centuries to Pontings 20

Brian Lara has faired better than Sachin and probably has benefitted from "lower fast bowling ability"... the average is amazingly 59.79....very good indeed but a long long way short of Pontings average

 

[Cricket_god]

Bradman never saw Ponting in his prime though and Ponting has improved leaps and bounds against spin bowling over the last few years that it's no longer a weakness but a strength for him when facing.
I think Ponting averaging in the mid 70s these days makes up for Ponting averaging around 60 back then aswell.
Tendulkar at his prime didn't produce results anywhere near Ponting's prime even if you take into account the bowling attacks.

Results have to given by a team not a player Australian team was so good that pontings runs always ended in wins.he was not averaging 60 he was in the mid 40 when those great fast bowlers were there.He still struggles big time aginst spin in low slow tracks as you have seen in malaysia and in india
he is good against fast bowlers.but he has to prove himself aginst spinners.

 

[aussie_ben91]

Results have to given by a team not a player Australian team was so good that pontings runs always ended in wins.he was not averaging 60 he was in the mid 40 when those great fast bowlers were there.He still struggles big time aginst spin in low slow tracks as you have seen in malaysia and in india
he is good against fast bowlers.but he has to prove himself aginst spinners.

Back then Ponting was going through a rough patch in his life though. Compared to Sachin's Sachin's pressure is nothing.

He doesn't struggle against spin! He had one bad series against Harbhajan in 2001 and that was 6 years ago!

Apparently Ponting doesn't struggle in the subcontient. He actually averages 40 odd.

http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

 

[stereotype]

Results have to given by a team not a player Australian team was so good that pontings runs always ended in wins.he was not averaging 60 he was in the mid 40 when those great fast bowlers were there.He still struggles big time aginst spin in low slow tracks as you have seen in malaysia and in india
he is good against fast bowlers.but he has to prove himself aginst spinners.

he was younger...he matured as a batsman...your weakness against spin arguement would hold credibility if he averaged 2-5 more than Lara and Tendulkar ....but it isnt that...he averages about 25 more than Tendulkar in the last 5 years and about 13 more than Lara....and over the last 4 years in Australia he has averaged 88 with the bat....if you think nuffie attacks are the cause then why is Tendulkar and Lara simply outclassed.....Ponting by the end of his career will be ahead of both by a considerable margin in terms of runs scored and centuries made based on the last few years.

since this increase in form by Ponting he has had limited opportunities in India as a Test match batsman BUT he still easily scores runs in India in ODI's

You say he struggles against spin but in Sri Lanka he averages 54 over the course of his career against now the best spin bowler in the world

also averages 37.34 in India in ODI's

 

[Cricket_god]

he was younger...he matured as a batsman...your weakness against spin arguement would hold credibility if he averaged 2-5 more than Lara and Tendulkar ....but it isnt that...he averages about 25 more than Tendulkar in the last 5 years and about 13 more than Lara....and over the last 4 years in Australia he has averaged 88 with the bat....if you think nuffie attacks are the cause then why is Tendulkar and Lara simply outclassed.....Ponting by the end of his career will be ahead of both by a considerable margin in terms of runs scored and centuries made based on the last few years.

since this increase in form by Ponting he has had limited opportunities in India as a Test match batsman BUT he still easily scores runs in India in ODI's

You say he struggles against spin but in Sri Lanka he averages 54 over the course of his career against now the best spin bowler in the world

also averages 37.34 in India in ODI's

He averages 3 more than tendulkar overall .He has 8 tests in india with an average of 12 .if that is limited opportunity then i agree with you.Every batsman has a peak then he goes downhill so do not jump the gun yet he might still be behind tendulkar lara.

Back then Ponting was going through a rough patch in his life though. Compared to Sachin's Sachin's pressure is nothing.

He doesn't struggle against spin! He had one bad series against Harbhajan in 2001 and that was 6 years ago!

Apparently Ponting doesn't struggle in the subcontient. He actually averages 40 odd.

He struggles in india not in pakistan where they murder bowling.You might say he has improved a lot and now he has matured and wil play spin well and also score heavly on low slow tracks but till he does it in reality .wait for the world cup in west indies we may get our answers.

He averages 3 more than tendulkar overall .He has 8 tests in india if that is limited opportunity then i agree with you.Every batsman has a peak then he goes downhill so do not jump the gun yet he might still be behind tendulkar lara.

Back then Ponting was going through a rough patch in his life though. Compared to Sachin's Sachin's pressure is nothing.

He doesn't struggle against spin! He had one bad series against Harbhajan in 2001 and that was 6 years ago!

Apparently Ponting doesn't struggle in the subcontient. He actually averages 40 odd.

He struggles in india not in pakistan where they murder bowling.You might say he has improved a lot and now he has matured and wil play spin well and also score heavly on low slow tracks but till he does it in reality .wait for the world cup in west indies we may get our answers.

And do not say he is under the same pressure as sachin he plays freely as he
had such agood team where as sachin for most of his career had to play almost a lone hand and he has faced all the great bowlers

 

[m_vaughan]

I think his peak has been the best ever in modern day cricket. Remember he has had to compete for runs with Hayden, Langer, Matryn, Clarke, Lehmann, etc. all such good batsmen.

 

[stereotype]

He averages 3 more than tendulkar overall .He has 8 tests in india with an average of 12 .if that is limited opportunity then i agree with you.Every batsman has a peak then he goes downhill so do not jump the gun yet he might still be behind tendulkar lara.



And do not say he is under the same pressure as sachin he plays freely as he
had such agood team where as sachin for most of his career had to play almost a lone hand and he has faced all the great bowlers

Pontings second half of his career he has averaged 72....thats better form than Tendulkar has ever been in....and your arguement of the lack of world class bowlers helping Ponting isnt really consistant because of the fact Tendulkar has not had a similar increase to his average...

He averages 3 more than tendulkar overall .He has 8 tests in india with an average of 12 .if that is limited opportunity then i agree with you.Every batsman has a peak then he goes downhill so do not jump the gun yet he might still be behind tendulkar lara.



And do not say he is under the same pressure as sachin he plays freely as he
had such agood team where as sachin for most of his career had to play almost a lone hand and he has faced all the great bowlers

players like Rahul Dravid, Virender Sehwag, Saurav Ganguly? they are world class batsmen and hardly the make of a lone hand candidate