Andy Flower or Kevin Pietersen - who stays?

Who stays?


  • Total voters
    52

blockerdave

ICC Chairman
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Aug 19, 2013
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England
whilst i loved him as a player, flintoff has always come across as a bit of a sh#t bloke, but he makes a lot of sense here FREDDIE FLINTOFF EXCLUSIVE: England made piles of money out of KP... now they've hung him out to dry | Mail Online

particularly like:
It seems he fell out with Alastair Cook over a fitness session before the Sydney Test. Kevin thought it was more important to work on technique and I?m inclined to agree. You?re not going to get fitter with one work-out before a Test.

If the fitness was off, the problem started a lot earlier and needed to be addressed then. At 4-0 down, when none of them could score a run or take a wicket, what is the point in a naughty-boy session.
 

War

Chairman of Selectors
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Feb 10, 2010
Online Cricket Games Owned
 
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War

Chairman of Selectors
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Online Cricket Games Owned
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From the skysports discussion poll about KP this morning...
 

War

Chairman of Selectors
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Feb 10, 2010
Online Cricket Games Owned
ECB and PCA statement | England and Wales Cricket Board (ECB) - The Official Website of the ECB

Boring, it seems as if the ECB are directly blaming these rumours on Piers Morgan, dear or dear, they have lost the plot...

ECB said:
It has been a matter of great frustration that until now the England and Wales Cricket Board has been unable to respond to the unwarranted and unpleasant criticism of England players and the ECB itself, which has provided an unwelcome backdrop to the recent negotiations to release Kevin Pietersen from his central contract.

Those negotiations have been successfully concluded and whilst both parties remain bound by confidentiality provisions the ECB would like to make the following comments.

The ECB recognises the significant contribution Kevin has made to England teams over the last decade. He has played some of the finest innings ever produced by an England batsman.

However, the England team needs to rebuild after the whitewash in Australia. To do that we must invest in our captain Alastair Cook and we must support him in creating a culture in which we can be confident he will have the full support of all players, with everyone pulling in the same direction and able to trust each other. It is for those reasons that we have decided to move on without Kevin Pietersen.

Following the announcement of that decision, allegations have been made, some from people outside cricket, which as well as attacking the rationale of the ECB?s decision-making, have questioned, without justification, the integrity of the England Team Director and some of England?s players.

Clearly what happens in the dressing room or team meetings should remain in that environment and not be distributed to people not connected with the team. This is a core principle of any sports team, and any such action would constitute a breach of trust and team ethics.

Whilst respecting that principle, it is important to stress that Andy Flower, Alastair Cook and Matt Prior, who have all been singled out for uninformed and unwarranted criticism, retain the total confidence and respect of all the other members of the Ashes party.

These are men who care deeply about the fortunes of the England team and its image, and it is ironic that they were the people who led the reintegration of Kevin Pietersen into the England squad in 2012.
 
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T.J.Hooker

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Feb 10, 2005
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So basically they decided the best course of action is to bolster Alastair Cook's captaincy by removing people who might be unreceptive to crap ideas.
 

ferg512

International Coach
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Wellington
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I think the ECB have seriously underestimated how much of a PR disaster this would be, the crowd numbers for the coming summer should be very interesting. Not to mention a lot more people will tune into the IPL now (including me) which surely would not please Sky UK as they don't have the rights do they?

Off topic I know, but I really wish we would have been scheduled to tour England this season instead of last year. I think we would have a serious chance to beat them.
 

War

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Kevin Pietersen did not just want to get rid of Andy Flower - he had Alastair Cook and Matt Prior in his sights also | Mail Online

This is the England men's team or ladies time, cause these now revelations make we wondering if certain ENG players growing a vagina. :facepalm

quote said:
The scale of the divisiveness on the Ashes tour which ultimately cost Kevin Pietersen his international career extended beyond a push for the removal of team director Andy Flower.
While Pietersen?s barely disguised contempt for Flower?s management and methods boiled over during a players-only meeting after the fourth Test in Melbourne that left most of the squad flabbergasted, sources claim he had also had captain Alastair Cook and vice-captain Matt Prior in his sights for much of the tour.
Pietersen has never hidden his dislike and distrust of Flower?s approach, so there was shock but little surprise when he tore into the coach at that meeting, forcing Cook and Prior to intervene more than once.


But it is now emerging that as well as wanting Flower replaced as coach, Pietersen had grave misgivings about Cook?s captaincy and tactical approach and he further thought Prior was not worth his place ? and he made those views known to various colleagues on the tour. Furthermore, it is known he had little time for batting coach Graham Gooch.
There is debate over his motivation for pursuing an agenda of wholesale change from within the dressing room. His supporters suggest it was based on genuine and objective concern for the future prospects of the team.
Others say he never got over losing the captaincy in the fiasco which resulted in his sacking and that of coach Peter Moores in the winter of 2008-09, and that he saw the Ashes loss as an opportunity to grab it back.


Whatever lies behind his thinking, the disappointment felt by Cook and Prior is all the more acute because Pietersen is aware that, were it not for them, his international career might have ended in 2012 after the Textgate storm that enveloped English cricket in crisis.
Then, when Pietersen was dropped for the final Test against South Africa after it emerged he had sent derogatory text messages to ?close friends? inside the opposition dressing room about Flower and Andrew Strauss, then skipper, certain powerful voices were dead set on ending Pietersen?s seven-year Test career.
Had Strauss carried on, it may have spelled the end for him.


But, after Pietersen said it was ?tough being me in the England dressing room? in an extraordinary press conference following his brilliant hundred at Headingley, Prior extended the hand of friendship.
The wicketkeeper was the only player to call his troubled team-mate in an effort to move forward.
Later, even though Pietersen was not at first selected for the tour to India, new captain Cook sought to canvass the opinions of his senior players and then made decisive moves to bring him back into the fold.


Yet senior figures consider Pietersen?s actions undermined team spirit from the start.
They point out that his silence over an all-out attack on Cook by his close friend and ally Shane Warne before the series, when the Aussie called for the captain to be replaced by Pietersen, and KP?s disinclination to offer public support thereafter left more questions than answers.
And his refusal to counter the assault on Cook by his No 1 cheerleader, Piers Morgan, who tweeted ?Sack Cook? at every available opportunity, did little to help team unity.
When Pietersen hijacked the team meeting in Melbourne ? called with Flower?s support and aimed at urging players to take more responsibility for their performances ? he tried to press for a regime change.
That was seen as final confirmation that he had no qualms about undermining team unity already rocked by the trauma of Jonathan Trott?s early departure and the continuing struggles on the field.
When, before making the decision to sack Pietersen last week, new managing director Paul Downton took soundings from all concerned, he was left in no doubt of the general belief that Pietersen?s actions and behaviour concerning Flower, Cook and Prior were not merely divisive, but bordered on a deliberate attempt to undermine the leadership of the group.


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Kevin Pietersen whistled a cheery tune after final dismissal in the Ashes for England | Mail Online

This is the only story i've read that potentially makes KP looks bad.
 

blockerdave

ICC Chairman
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England
it's absolutely shocking, they basically have chosen:

a)our worst captain ever, over our one of our best batsmen ever
b)that the squad cannot tolerate any dissenting or challenging voices, or different ideas
c)the principle that the england team should be made up of the best players is now entirely thrown out the window, it's about whether your face fits and whether you're prepared to say "yes skip" when the idiot captain decides one fitness session is gonna make a difference rather than saying "hang on, what?"
d)they've made the "headmaster" into the "education minister"... somehow flower's got a promotion here and is setting the agenda

absolutely disgraceful. i have never been less enthused about being an england cricket fan, and i grew up in the 80s/90s.

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i don't want to come over a KP cheerleader; my issue is with what's happening now, personally i'd have dropped him after either Adelaide or Perth when his dismissals were ridiculous, and even now if it was a new coach/captain making a decision to start a "new era", rather than him being scapegoated by this discredited ancien regime i could accept that too, but this story is ridiculous.

firstly, KP is being slaughtered for obviously telling Piers Morgan what went on it that team meeting, and the same people slaughtering him for that leak this? hypocritical.
secondly - so the f*** what? he whistled. how does he usually react when he's out? how atypical was this? maybe it was one of those "putting a brave face on" reactions? nobody knows what he was actually thinking? he probably had an idea that they were facing a 5-0 loss and he'd be scapegoated, he obviously had no friends in the dressing room... there's a lot of reasons for that kind of reaction? and what was he whistling? if it was "always look on the bright side of life" i think that'd be understandable?
 

karolkarol

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Perthshire
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Ireland (Cricket)
The Elitist Cricketing Buffoons close ranks around their blue eyed Brentwood boy. No real surprise there.
 

sifter132

Panel of Selectors
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Location
NSW
Why is it always about the team? Well it's a team sport, and the team comes before the individual. If the most talented player ran the team his way because he knew he was too important to lose, wouldn't promote much teamwork. There'd be jealously and selfishness.

Was just thinking today about the John Buchanan/Shane Warne relationship of 10 years ago and how it potentially compares to Flower/KP. Similar in a lot of ways I'd say, in that they fundamentally disagreed over the best way to run a cricket team. Warne has regularly dismissed Buchanan's coaching record since retirement, but at the time I don't think he ever deliberately bitched hard in players meetings against Buch like KP is suggested to have done. I think Warne was kind of a roll his eyes, 'what's Buch got us doing now', type reaction.

But honestly I think the main difference was Australia never hit rock bottom and England just have. Easy to paper over the cracks when you're winning.
 

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