Ashes 2013 - Australia tour of England June/August 2013

[barmyarmy]

I was thinking about going to Chester-le-Street but they're charging ?80 a day which is an even bigger rip-off than usual.

 

[Umair7]

Australian Squad touring England for Ashes 2013

Michael Clarke (C)
Brad Haddin (VC & WK)
Chris Rogers
David Warner
Ed Cowan
Phillip Hughes
Shane Watson
Usman Khawaja
Matthew Wade (WK)
James Faulkner
Ryan Harris
Peter Siddle
James Pattinson
Mitchell Starc
Nathan Lyon
Jackson Bird

MY Strongest XI

David Warner / Ed Cowan
Chris Rogers
Phillip Hughes
Michael Clarke (C)
Shane Watson
Brad Haddin (VC & WK)
James Faulkner
James Pattinson
Peter Siddle
Jackson Bird
Mitchell Starc or Nathan Lyon (Depends on Pitch)

 

[Sedition]

Head for the Western Terrace at Headingly (not that they've got a test).
It does worry me a bit being favourites for this especially with how we played against NZ.

I'm guessing that's the least desirable place for a smartass Aussie?

I was thinking about going to Chester-le-Street but they're charging ?80 a day which is an even bigger rip-off than usual.

Yeah, $120 each seems a bit excessive. It's probably more convenient than Old Trafford though, if I can convince my Dutch chick that a whole day at the cricket would be awesome before invading Scotland.

 

[barmyarmy]

You know we have a wall to keep the likes of you out?

 

[Sedition]

I'll just get the misses to grow a beard and we'll shuffle through with the rest of you lot.

 

[Sedition]

She's pretty keen to go to Old Trafford actually, turns out she's a Man Utd. fan behind Ajax. One site tells me Days 3 and 4 are available, while the ticket site says they're the ones not available. Typical English I suppose

 

[Skater]

She's pretty keen to go to Old Trafford actually, turns out she's a Man Utd. fan behind Ajax. One site tells me Days 3 and 4 are available, while the ticket site says they're the ones not available. Typical English I suppose

Might be a silly question, but she does know that the Old Trafford cricket ground is not the same as the football ground, right? Might be worth making that clear... or not, until you get there.

 

[midgetwars]

More openers! Well, actually I guess it's Watson out Rogers in.

I still think O'Keefe, Bailey and Doolan deserved a call.

 

[Aalay]

I'm not judging Cowan on what he did in India (which wasn't really impressive & he was the 4th highest scored by the way in India. Clarke 1st, Smith 2nd, Starc 3rd then him), but his entire career to date.

I don't know how attentively you have followed AUS team in recent years, but lets not forget the only reason Cowan ever got picked vs India 2011/12 is because of top order struggles of young players like Hughes, S Marsh & Warner. So he was a stop gap older player choice.

After 17 tests, he barely averages 32 and its been dropping every series & barely 1 century.When older players like Hayden, Hodge, Katich, Hussey, Clark, got recalls for AUS in their late 20/early 30 like Cowan, after 17 tests they were dominating, that's what you have to do as a older player because the selectors have taken the punt on you instead of investing in the young player.

Watson averaged 44 with both his centuries opening, compared to Cowan's record. Any AUS team in which you are not opening with Watson in the future in tests is wrong, because that is Watson's best position.

Rogers is another stop gap even though he is in form because the youngsters still have not stepped up. And IMO is the direct "stop gap" replacement for Cowan who has not taken his opportunities.


Faulkner no doubt is a touch & go choice. But events in India where Lyon took 7 wickets in the final test almost assured him of a starting place, before that innings i was of the view AUS should play 4 quicks in the Ashes. Watson also one he opens IMO should not bowl in tests. So i am viewing Faulkner's probable starting place to do the all-rounder work for Watson, because despite how good AUS quicks can be in English conditions, i still have the suspicion they will need 5 bowlers to consistently take 20 English wickets.

I am talking about total runs in the series. He was the second highest run scorer for Australia behind Michael Clarke with 265 runs. It does not matter if he looked impressive or not, what matters is that he made runs when others did not.

I don't know why you always ask me this question because I have seen Australian cricket long enough to realize what is going on with the squad. Yes, surely not as long or as closely as you have done but I know why Cowan came in the team. Yes he was there because the other top order batsmen were not in form but that is still the case. You got Cowan who has scored higher runs than both David Warner and Philip Hughes in the last series that Australia played. Yes Cowan is definitely not the best top order player but all I am saying is that he deserves a chance after his performance in the past series.

You are saying that Watson should not bowl but the point is he wants to bowl.
Chennai v Rajasthan, IPL 2013, Chennai : 'I was half-capacity without my bowling' - Shane Watson | Cricket News | Indian Premier League | ESPN Cricinfo
He is a pretty decent bowler and as you said, 3 fast bowler+ Lyon+ Watson are good enough to take 20 English wickets in English conditions. So, I don't see any problem in him filling that all-rounder roll again unless the Australian management is really concerned about him lasting for the whole series. Again, as I said, I don't see Watson opening the batting even though his record is best when he opens but as long as Cowan and Warner are performing, I don't think he will come as an opener.

 

[radders12]

Does nobody else think that looks like one of the worst batting line ups in world cricket as we speak? There's a couple of good players, with Clarke being the real stand out. Warner is inconsistent, Watson never does well vs England and then you have....Erm, who? I like the look of the bowling attack. I rate Pattinson to be a big bowler in future, Siddle gives absolutely everything and usually gets wickets vs England and I'd go with Starc who can swing it back at pace to England's batsmen. The likes of Trott and co struggled vs Wagner and Boult in NZ.

 

[War]

I am talking about total runs in the series. He was the second highest run scorer for Australia behind Michael Clarke with 265 runs. It does not matter if he looked impressive or not, what matters is that he made runs when others did not.

I don't know why you always ask me this question because I have seen Australian cricket long enough to realize what is going on with the squad. Yes, surely not as long or as closely as you have done but I know why Cowan came in the team. Yes he was there because the other top order batsmen were not in form but that is still the case. You got Cowan who has scored higher runs than both David Warner and Philip Hughes in the last series that Australia played. Yes Cowan is definitely not the best top order player but all I am saying is that he deserves a chance after his performance in the past series.

You are saying that Watson should not bowl but the point is he wants to bowl.
Chennai v Rajasthan, IPL 2013, Chennai : 'I was half-capacity without my bowling' - Shane Watson | Cricket News | Indian Premier League | ESPN Cricinfo
He is a pretty decent bowler and as you said, 3 fast bowler+ Lyon+ Watson are good enough to take 20 English wickets in English conditions. So, I don't see any problem in him filling that all-rounder roll again unless the Australian management is really concerned about him lasting for the whole series. Again, as I said, I don't see Watson opening the batting even though his record is best when he opens but as long as Cowan and Warner are performing, I don't think he will come as an opener.

Long story short, if any compromise in the AUS top order has to be made, it should not be Watson having to move down the order for anyone else to open.

Opening the batting is where Watson has looked his most assured in any format of cricket. This continuous debate about him batting anywhere other than opening so that you can accommodate a limited player like Cowan or any under-performing young player is ludicrous IMO.

Watson can say he wants to bowl all he wants, but in the best interest of AUS cricket once he opens again as he should, his bowling workload in tests should be reduced or become non-existent like Steve Waugh did in his time before he became a great test batsman. Opening the batting & bowling mediumpace is physically demanding job for test cricket & with Watson's injury record its not a wise choice for him to combine both. Only S Africa Trevor Goddard ever did that demanding dual role successfully in test history.

Despite Warner & Hughes struggles vs spin in India & patchy careers to date, they still have more test hundred than Cowan. I asked about you knowledge of AUS cricket with regards to the Cowan situation because i find your defense of him strange. If it is you say you understand, how do would you defend his case given as mentioned this clear historical fact about recent AUS player who debuted or got recalls in their late 20/early 30s?

After 17 tests, he barely averages 32 and its been dropping every series & barely 1 century.When older players like Hayden, Hodge, Katich, Hussey, Clark, got recalls for AUS in their late 20/early 30 like Cowan, after 17 tests they were dominating, that's what you have to do as a older player because the selectors have taken the punt on you instead of investing in the young player.

Ian Chappell & Tom Moody summed up the Watson & Cowan conundrum aptly a few months ago basically saying much of what i've articulated also: Time Out : 'Australia's batting is in strife' | Cricket Features | India v Australia | ESPN Cricinfo

Ian Chappell: The batting order is a mess, and has been in one for a while. It comes about because they haven't been opening with Shane Watson. When you've got a side that is struggling and you've got a guy who is pretty decent at the top of the order, leave him at the top of the order and just bowl him for the odd-few overs whenever you needed a change. That's how they should have been using Watson for quite some time now. Him moving down was a mistake and ever since then, the batting has been in strife.

Tom Moody: I agree with Chappell with regards to Watson. The foundation of your innings is so critical, and Australia just haven't had a foundation for too long. Watson's best form is at the top of the order - he averages about 43 in Test cricket there and it just falls away in every other spot in the order. The team needs to be built around Watson at No.1. I would want Clarke at No.4. I would be willing to take a mid-term view on trying to get this batting order right, at least 12 to 24 months ahead.

We just need to persevere, at the moment we are going with Phillip Hughes. Whether he is the long-term answer , certainly the way he has batted in Indian conditions hasn't looked to be the case. But outside of India, he's had a reasonably promising comeback to the national side after being out for a lengthy period. His overwhelming appetite for runs in domestic cricket outweighs all the negatives in my view. The other point is, there are not too many options that are bashing down the door.

H Bhogle: Is Ed Cowan doing enough to stay in the side? What about the rest of the batting spots? (8.53 - 14.15)

Ian Chappell: I wouldn't have had him in the side at the start.

 

[War]

As it is, I think Steve Smith and Moises Henriques can be classed as slightly unlucky too after both showed they could at least play a bit in India.

I think Bryan Coverdale on cricinfo summed up pretty well why Smith probably was not included: The Ashes 2013 : Australia's Ashes squad: a team for the here and now | Cricket Features | Australia in England - The Ashes | ESPN Cricinfo

One of the few men who did thrive in India was Steven Smith, who is the omitted player who deserves the most sympathy. But Smith's success in India, where he averaged 40.25, was down largely to his footwork against spin. England is a different proposition, and Usman Khawaja was preferred.

On Henriques he had a good debut like many cricketers can have, but as the series went on his strong & weak points were more potently exposed & overall i'd say he is not a test cricketer to be fair. His bowling especially really isn't a wicket-taking threat. Would be better option in ODI/T20s.

Faulkner i believe is a more complete all-rounder to potentially bat @ # 7 and be a wicket-taking threat @ test level.

If England want to win this series easily, take the grass off the pitches and flatten them out. Flatten the pitches to prey on the inability of guys like Watson and Cowan to build big scores. Play both Swann and Monty and exploit the lack of batting ability vs spin bowling of all bar Clarke. Dig up some mental scars from the India tour. Flatter, grassless pitches would force Aussies to bowl Lyon more too, their weakest bowler.

It would be perfect if we could find some bloody middle order batsmen. Of the 7 batsmen in this squad, 6 are more comfortable opening than anywhere else (including Watson and Khawaja in that statement).

Haha no doubt about it. But the thing that will prevent England from doing this is the overhead conditions & traditional bouncy nature of some pitches. But i can certainly see England trying this tactic come the test matches in August (maybe @ the Oval or Cardiff) when the sun tends to come out more in this country. Maybe even at Old Trafford also that has a history of assisting spinners, but i'm not sure how Trafford newly laid pitch is going to play now.

On the middle-order batsmen, Inverarity made it clear @ the squad announcement that the squad is not set in stone & if push comes to shove players can be added.

Bailey is in England now, so if he can score heavily compared to his average FC season in Australia just concluded, he could be in with a shout still.

But once more we got to mention Brad Hodge. Now that the selectors were brave & smart enough to pick Rogers, if Inverarity & co had not written off Hodge's push to come back & play for victoria in the FC to regain an Ashes place - he could have been the real middle-order batsmen answer AUS would have wanted now.

- Australia Cricket News: Brad Hodge ponders Ashes bid | ESPN Cricinfo

- Australia Cricket News: Brad Hodge comeback bid ruled out | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Sedition]

Might be a silly question, but she does know that the Old Trafford cricket ground is not the same as the football ground, right? Might be worth making that clear... or not, until you get there.

That's a bummer.. well we might be able to drive past Man Utd's Old Trafford if we go. Thanks for letting me know

The ?80.00 for Day 4 tickets at Chester-le-street are starting to look alright after seeing the scalpers prices - Buy England Test Cricket tickets - Daily Telegraph Tickets

No idea what's going on with Old Trafford. From their official website:

Tickets for Saturday 3rd August & Sunday 4th August 2013 are still available, although there are only a limited number of tickets remaining. Day 5 tickets are also now on sale - click here for day 5 details.

Tickets for Thursday 1st & Friday 2nd are SOLD OUT.

Then on their eticket website it only has family tickets for Days 1 and 2 and Day 5 tickets. So yeah, they've got no idea what's going on obviously.

Anyone dealt with those scalper looking sites like GetMeIn, Seatwave and Viagogo for tickets before?

 

[Sedition]

Scratch that last question, just booked Day 4 tickets for Chester-le-street. Durham County Stand, Upper 1 if anyone's gonna be around there.

 

[barmyarmy]

Might see if I can round up some friends with big wallets...
That's the test I normally go to.