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Daniel Vettori Hints At Ball Tampering
- Thread starter Gunner786
- Start date
Not until Akram and Younis started it, actually Safraz Narwaz started I think. That was around the 1980's.
Can we keep that chat to the thread about it?
Read the article:
Daniel Vettori, the New Zealand captain, made an informal approach to match officials in regards to the bowling of Umar Gul, the Pakistan paceman, after Saturday's ICC World Twenty20 Super Eights match at The Oval, and was told there was no issue with it.
Vettori raised eyebrows when he told reporters after the match he had never before seen a bowler achieve reverse swing after 12 overs of a Twenty20 match. He then sought out Ranjan Madugalle, the match referee, to ask whether he was satisfied Gul swung the ball legitimately.
"It was an informal approach where Daniel Vettori sought clarification from the match officials about Gul's reverse swing," Stephen Hill, the New Zealand media manager, told Cricinfo. "They said there was no issue. The matter now rests."
He was asked in the press conference, what's he meant to say? Yeah i've seen balls swing in T20 cricket ALL THE TIME. Totally normal for that to happen. He never made any accusations about it at all, he just said he didn't know how. All he did is inquire informally. It's honestly a big deal made out of a polite inquiry.
Read the article:
Daniel Vettori, the New Zealand captain, made an informal approach to match officials in regards to the bowling of Umar Gul, the Pakistan paceman, after Saturday's ICC World Twenty20 Super Eights match at The Oval, and was told there was no issue with it.
Vettori raised eyebrows when he told reporters after the match he had never before seen a bowler achieve reverse swing after 12 overs of a Twenty20 match. He then sought out Ranjan Madugalle, the match referee, to ask whether he was satisfied Gul swung the ball legitimately.
"It was an informal approach where Daniel Vettori sought clarification from the match officials about Gul's reverse swing," Stephen Hill, the New Zealand media manager, told Cricinfo. "They said there was no issue. The matter now rests."
He was asked in the press conference, what's he meant to say? Yeah i've seen balls swing in T20 cricket ALL THE TIME. Totally normal for that to happen. He never made any accusations about it at all, he just said he didn't know how. All he did is inquire informally. It's honestly a big deal made out of a polite inquiry.
Using the pitch to scrub the ball is an absolute load of bollocks. So you are telling me the bowler is perfectly landing one side of the ball on the pitch constantly and not the other? Give me a break. This is what the english were claiming in 05 before we found out exactly how they did it. Wickets are far drier in Australia and you don't see it reversing there in under 40 overs........I was at the game on Saturday and it was far from overcast...in fact it was bloody warm for England...not saying he cheated or anything....but there's a simple trick to doing it when conditions aren't helpful that some teams just can't get right....and it has to be something to do with the action rather than the ball.
And what's wrong with that, has Vettori done anything wrong. He hasn't come out and said Gul cheated. Try again.
There was a school of thought in Australia that Mitch Johnson was doing it a year or two ago, but that's when he was bowling with a crooked wrist and not swinging it. It certainly wasn't intentional, they just found that it happened due to his bowling style. And I think he'd much rather be able to swing the ball conventionally rather than being able to scrub it up. Well obviously, or we'd be trying to get him to go back to his old style.
And completely agree with Howsie and Irottev, Vettori never made an accusation, the media has cooked this up deluxe. Journos are just looking for a story and reading between the lines.
And Younis Khan is just coming across as too sensitive now, saying he's insulted when the umpire checked the ball between overs. Umm, Younis? That's their JOB. And given how how early it was reversing it would have been completely incompetent of the umpires NOT to check to see if the ball had been damaged somehow.
Insomniac
Title Recipient
I think what Younus is implying / trying to sy is that they are taking the ball from him in between overs, rather than only taking it from him when a wicket falls or there is a break in play.
And I doubt they checked it during the NZ game because else he would have mentioned it, he's talking about the Ireland game where I'd say reverse-swing began from the 15th over onwards.
sami ullah khan
Panel of Selectors
Although Vettori did not make a direct accusation, it is his act of a polite inquiry from match referee, that may have aggravated Pakistani Fans. I watched the whole match and although the ball did reverse, the swing was never too big to suggest any misdeeds by the fielding team. The ball just swung enough to cause trouble to batters. Umar Gul has worked hard on his bowling and Waqar's stint as our bowling coach was helpful in unearthing his death over bowling abilities. Umar Gul has found his rhythm and will be tough to handle. Vettori should instead ask his bowlers to learn from Umar rather than being a skeptic. Fact of the matter is that Pakistani invented reverse swing. while other teams may learn this art, Pakistanis will always be better than the rest due to our legends who impart his gift onto younger players. As far as ball tampering charges are concerned I hope English fans do not forget the visual footage of Michael rubbing sand on the ball and they owe their only ashes win in last 20 years to reverse Swing or ball tampering whatever you may like to call it.
Again I applaud Gul for his bowling, as did Vettori. But as captain he has a right to ask the umpires, he has done nothing wrong.
I think this does pose the question now as to how other sides can do it, because it's obviously a very handy skill to have. Maybe it requires the conditions to be right. Hopefully we have learned from Gul and the likes of Mills and Butler can do a little bit with the ball today.
With Kyle Mill's action he will never be able to get the ball to reverse swing, Butler could get it to reverse maybe, but we don't have to many bowler that could do it. I know Tim Southee can get it to reverse, he did it in Malaysia.
angryangy
ICC Chairman
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2004
No, keeping one side shiny and one side rough is not reverse swing.
I was commenting on this a month ago, during the series in the UAE. Late in the series, they appeared to be maturing a strategy, where spinners come on as soon as the initial Powerplay is over. Shahid Afridi and Saeed Ajmal seem to be able to help rough the ball up quicker than normal. In the ODIs, there was some dangerous movement from Umar Gul around the 30th over, shortly before the ball change, but in T20s it seems much more effective, not to mention arriving much earlier.
It may sound confusing, but the advantage I think they create is actually in the seam of the ball. Roughness or shine is one thing, but the seam is also very important to swing bowling. In the standard reverse swing situation, you might have a very old ball with a soft, flattened seam and a lot of roughness, but in this case, having a newish ball with a bit of a seam left will compensate for only having done a little work on the ball. In T20 they send the spinners out even earlier than in ODIs, so it makes sense that it can take even less scuffing.
n3wu$3r
Club Captain
lol i think pak did it a bit more...
vettori had problem with tait aswell (chucking issue)...whenever he loses i guess he just wants an excuse to satisfy himself that the opposition didn defeated or outplayed his team fairly..just for mere soul satisfaction lolz....maybe afraid of accepting defeat...there are about 100 of cameras there in the ground..even if an incidence happens in the crowd the cameras capture it....tampering??GOD is there any sense in it....goood captain though one of my fav..such a mature player...didn expected this from him...
i wont be surprised if one day someone stood up and said paki players have old balls in their pockets and when Pak wants reverse swing they replace it withh the match ball....
why cant people appreciate Gul's effort...he just a dammm good bowler who is extremely underrated....12 wickets in 5 matches in T20 ???...highest wicket-taker in the previous T20-WC...Highest wicket-taker for kolkata knight riders..12 wickets in 6 games(First IPL)....highest wicket taker for Western austrailia..In that big bash T20 or whatever held in Australia he was the second-highest wicket-taker alongside nannes....
Talented very very talented a bowler who makes the ball talk......but then again when ur doing good people will raise question...
There was no tampering, they just bowled well. At least our side made the Super 8's and weren't bettered by Ireland.
Those pitches were terrible. Considering he scored 2 fifties and took a bag on one of them at least he's honest. We never lost to Bangladesh thanks.
n3 People ARE appreciating Gul's bowling. Vettori did at the press conference. The media has gone and blown this up into something it never was. Time to move on, it's really not a big deal.
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