Once and For All Hawk Eye Cannot Accurately 'Predict'

"Hawk-Eye requires between 1 to 2 feet of travel after the ball has pitched to be able
to accurately track the ball out of the bounce (this is significantly less than an umpire
requires)"
not me paul hawkins inventor of hawkeye says so.Anyway i think i would leave this topic at this.
 
Ok, so did you notice that that was a quote from 2003? Do you recall that the predictive element wasn't used at that time, because the tests via tracking indicated it wasn't reliable enough?

Do you understand that the tech has developed enormously in the 11 years since he give that quote, and that the increase in resolution and frame rate exponentially increased the amount of data collected, so the "2 feet" quote isn't true any more, and that this is why the predictive element was added to DRS?
 
so the "2 feet" quote isn't true any more
how do you know? has it been commented upon, if so kindly link me to it.
well those are the only 2 quotes i could get of him, if it has been improved why hasn't it been made public, say im pushing a new version wouldn't i do all the publicity.Sure tech in terms of frame rate and res has improved but has it translated to hawkeye's improvement it seems to have the same problem as it had years ago. There is no sureshot data on both sides of our argument. Which is purely my point, if it was so good why cant they make it transparent after all the controversies happening about it.
 
Well you're right in that hard data on Hawkeye's capabilities is not easily googled, so I can't find a figure on that. But it's certainly the impression I've had from tv features / articles that the massive improvements in computer and digital camera tech from 2001 / 2008 made the system more effective.

Moreover, it doesn't really matter because you almost always get a couple of feet in an lb anyway, and the article states that if the data wasn't solid enough to make a good prediction then they just didn't send one to the broadcasters. There is nothing in that quote to suggest that 2009 or 2014 Hawkeye predicitions are intrinsically inaccurate, and in fact it instead clearly suggests that Hawkeye is more accurate than the human eye under the same circumstances, which is the opposite of the point you're trying to argue.

I agree some hard data would be ideal, but it's reasonably plausible that Hawkeye has trade secrets to protect, and very implausible that the ICC would want to sanction expensive tech additions and huge changes to the game without a reasonable professional standard of proof of usefulness.

This is the thing, really. You say you don't want to believe "just some guy", but it isn't just some guy. It's a guy who makes a living as an expert in ball tracking tech, plus a load of other guys whose job it is to make huge decisions on behalf of the ICC, ECB, ITF, MCC and whoever else is involved. I don't expect a broadcaster to vet their tech like that, but the governing bodies of world sports? And remember the bit where they test elite umpires to make sure they're good enough at guessing lbws, that whole professional umpiring exam bodies and that sort of thing?

There is no smoking gun in terms of large numbers of obviously incorrectly tracked or predicted hawkeye deliveries, and by contrast there are plenty where the analysis seems perfectly reasonable. Andy Flower took England to #1 in the world armed with Hawkeye data and as far as I'm aware it's a standard coaching tool at international level.

So we've got a bunch of plausible looking hawkeye stuff and bunch of guys who are cricket and ball tracking professionals on one side, and some disgruntled fans and the odd oddball delivery on youtube on the other. That's why it remains sensible to assume the probable accuracy of hawkeye vs the human eye, even in the absence of comprehensive online proof.

I'd very much like to see the accuracy comprehensively demonstrated, and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Hawkeye really is bullshitting everyone, but the degree of conspiracy required seems quite implausible.
 
Scientific experiments need to be objective and based on something which is inherently repeatable, in order to allow others to confirm and refine your work. Sharing the same few youtube videos as "proof" of something and trying to elevate yourself above those in the ICC and other sporting authorities (the FA, the LCA...) who've obviously done scientific testing of these things to ensure that the tracking is accurate, and wouldn't use it if it wasn't.

The only reason why tests shouldn't have DRS is cost; in order to encourage international tours between nations that may not have the appropriate technology. However, if as in the recent England/India series all of the DRS technology is there because of the broadcasters, then it should be required.
 
The Australian system is actually different, called Virtual Eye. In 2010/11 I think I remember Paul Hawkins criticising the Virtual Eye data on a couple of deliveries, saying they'd interpreted something wrong.

There's definitely enough evidence to suspect that mistakes are possible, just not that they happen at a rate worse than the best umpires.
 

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