Predictions

Discussion in 'The Ashes 2010-11' started by aussie1st, Nov 12, 2010.

  1. War Chairman of Selectors

    War
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    National Team:
    England, Australia, Italy
    Domestic Team:
    Lancs, Trini, United, Chelsea, Gunners, Pool, Juve
    Firstly no one is talking about any spinner AUS have. My position is that AUS should always play an all-pace attack.

    Secondly pessimism over the consistent fitness of members of the AUS pace attack is different towards pessimism over the ability of members of the AUS pace attack. The latter is which is was refering to & what people seem to be questioning.

    Once Hilfenhaus/Bollinger/Johnson/Harris or Siddle are fully fit bowling together. You have potentially the most lethal bowling attack in the world (although a fully fit SA attack of Steyn/Morkel/De Wet/Tahir/Kallis would be equal & would have more variety due to presence of a quality spinner).
     
  2. Themer Chairman of Selectors

    Themer
    AKA:
    Jack
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    National Team:
    England
    Domestic Team:
    Nottinghamshire
    Location:
    Newark, UK
    Still think you're massively overrating the Australian bowling line up. I'd rather go in with the fully fit England bowling line up than Australia's.
     
  3. piriyanth International Cricketer

    piriyanth
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2007
    National Team:
    Australia and RSA
    Domestic Team:
    Kings 11 punjab
    Location:
    Australia Sydney
    Ashes - Australia 2-1
    Leading run scorer - Michael Clarke
    Leading wicket taker - Mitchell Johnson
    Flop of the Ashes - Marcus North
    Under pressure player proving critics wrong - Michael Hussey
    First player to be dropped - Marcus North(fingers crossed)
    Other players dropped - Nathan Hauritz, Paul Collingwood, Peter Siddle
    Players to make Test debut in Ashes - Eoin Morgan, Ryan Harris
     
  4. TumTum International Cricketer

    TumTum
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    National Team:
    Australia
    Domestic Team:
    Blues & Pies
    Location:
    Regional Victoria
    In English conditions yes, but anywhere else i'd take the Aussie bowling line-up.
     
  5. War Chairman of Selectors

    War
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    National Team:
    England, Australia, Italy
    Domestic Team:
    Lancs, Trini, United, Chelsea, Gunners, Pool, Juve
    And i still think you're massively under-rating the AUS pace attack.

    I still dont understand what you are arguing though. Are you arguing/questioning the AUS pace attack on ability grounds or fitness grounds?.

    If its ability grounds, once they all are fit. No way can our ENG attack compare to AUS.

    If its assurity over fitness to the main bowlers. Then obviously ENG are in a more solid state ATM than AUS. This however doesn't mean anything.
     
  6. Themer Chairman of Selectors

    Themer
    AKA:
    Jack
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    National Team:
    England
    Domestic Team:
    Nottinghamshire
    Location:
    Newark, UK
    Both fitness and ability tbh.
     
  7. War Chairman of Selectors

    War
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    National Team:
    England, Australia, Italy
    Domestic Team:
    Lancs, Trini, United, Chelsea, Gunners, Pool, Juve
    Ok. Well thats your POV ATM, i cant change that. All i will say i prepare to be surprised then on the ability front.

    Just one question though. Are you more confident/or rate our ENG pace attack options of Anderson/Broad/Finn/Onions ability wise over Hilfenhaus/Bollinger/Johnson/Harris/Siddle?
     
  8. Themer Chairman of Selectors

    Themer
    AKA:
    Jack
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    National Team:
    England
    Domestic Team:
    Nottinghamshire
    Location:
    Newark, UK
    I'd find them extremely close in terms of their ability. I'd probably err towards England just slightly.

    England are alot more solid while some of the bowlers for Australia blow hot and cold Johnson and Siddle.
     
  9. War Chairman of Selectors

    War
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    National Team:
    England, Australia, Italy
    Domestic Team:
    Lancs, Trini, United, Chelsea, Gunners, Pool, Juve
    Really?. Lets look at them man vs man:

    Hilfenahaus vs Anderson:

    Surely Hilfenhaus in the more complete swing bowler?. Hilfy as he just showed in IND on flat pitches where bowlers like him are usually ineffective was superb. As he kept Sehwag quiet.

    While in the Ashes last summer in ENG. Hilfehaus was the better swing bowler.

    Anderson also goes into the current Ashes, with MASSIVE question marks over his ability to be effective when the ball stops swinging, a test which Hilfy has already passed.


    Johnson vs Broad:

    I'm comparing these two since they have similar long term experience. (30 odd tests)

    Regardless of how inconsistent Johnson may be he is still a sub-30 average test bowler. Compared to someone like Broad who averages over 34.

    Bollinger vs Finn:

    Surely a no contest in favour of Bollinger. Finn career could go up or down depending on how he goes in the Ashes as well.

    Ryan Harris vs Graham Onions:

    Two swing bowlers. Only difference is that Harris bowls it close to 90 mph & seems more capable of being a effective bowler in all conditions.

    Onions as he showed in S Africa last winter like Anderson, when the ball stops swinging he still has alot of work to do to be effective againts good international batsmen.

    From here we go into the respective back-ups for each side who look like they are either ready for tests/have the raw ability to be ready for tests.

    For AUS you have: Siddle, Starc, Cameron, Copeland, George, J Pattinson vs For ENG you Tremlett, Bresnan, Shazad.

    I dont know how much of those AUS bowlers you have seen. But its impossible that ENG back-up is anywhere close to AUS back-up quicks.

    So basically overall AUS pace stocks is better in every department. I'm not too sure how you are managing to give ENG any edge anywhere.
     
  10. Themer Chairman of Selectors

    Themer
    AKA:
    Jack
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    National Team:
    England
    Domestic Team:
    Nottinghamshire
    Location:
    Newark, UK
    You've completely misread the type of bowler that Onions is. He's a line and length bowler who gets close to the stumps and some times can get a hint of swing.

    I can't be arsed going over every person vs person match up but I still believe that England are the better bowling group especially if you add Swann into the reckoning.
     
  11. War Chairman of Selectors

    War
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    National Team:
    England, Australia, Italy
    Domestic Team:
    Lancs, Trini, United, Chelsea, Gunners, Pool, Juve
    What?. Onions is a swing-bowler, that is very obvious. The amount of swing he gets, is more than just a "hint", when he gets conditions in his favour. Ha really, you have been watching a different Onions.

    Look @ the Ashes last year, he sort of outbowled Anderson when both of them got similar seaming pitches @ Lords & Birmingham.


    We are talking about the fast-bowling depth of both sides. So Swann isn't relevant. If AUS selectors where smart, they would be playing a spin, since its obvious all are crap in AUS.

    Plus even if you want to bring him in to talk about overall attack strenght. I cannot see how you would rate Anderson/Braod/Finn/Swann over Hilfenahaus/Bollinger/Johnson/Harris, as a better bowling group capable of taking 20 wickets in most/all conditions.

    I'd love to see you break down in some detail whether you want to use a man vs man comparison or whatever analysis you may wish to chose. To describe to me how ENG are the better bowling group (especially in the fast bowling department), instead of just stating it baselessly. Thanks in advance. :)
     
  12. Themer Chairman of Selectors

    Themer
    AKA:
    Jack
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    National Team:
    England
    Domestic Team:
    Nottinghamshire
    Location:
    Newark, UK
    Actually we were talking about the relative strength of the "Aussie bowling line up" originally to which I said Australia should be pessimistic about and specifically noted that Australia have an ineffective spinner. You've slowly changed the subject to pace attacks as times gone by.

    That's odd. Cricinfo seems to agree with that Onions is a "wicket-to-wicket seam bowling that made an impact". He isn't a swing bowler he bowls line and length close into the stumps and occasionally gets a bit of swing.
     
  13. JD10 International Cricketer

    JD10
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2007
    National Team:
    England
    Domestic Team:
    Lancashire,Liverpool FC,
    Location:
    North England/Melbourne
    How about Swann vs Hauritz ?
     
  14. War Chairman of Selectors

    War
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    National Team:
    England, Australia, Italy
    Domestic Team:
    Lancs, Trini, United, Chelsea, Gunners, Pool, Juve

    Because the stenght of AUS attack is its pace attack. Mentioning the spin resources wont mean anything since its obviously bad.

    That would be like judging the strenght of Windies attack of the 70s & 80s by wahtever average spinner they had (Harper, Butts, Padmore, Jumadeen, Nanan). When the the obvious strenght of the attack was its pace bowling resources.




    Yes he certainly does bowls fairly close into the stump like Shaun Pollock at his best. But Onions is a much of a swing bowlers as Anderson, Hoggard, Tim Southee, Hilfenhaus. Thats his obvious strenght with the ball. When the ball stops swiniging he becomes gun-barell straight & is easy to play.

    War added 3 Minutes and 0 Seconds later...

    Obviously Swann>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>haurtiz.
     
  15. Papa_Smurf International Cricketer

    Papa_Smurf
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2010
    Location:
    Smurf Village
    I've really tried hard to find some point to disagree with, but I can't help but agree with this analysis :)
     

Share This Page