The State of Brazilian football en route & after 2014 World Cup

[War]

I'm not making this thread as a fan of Brazil, since i'm not. But like any football fan, I appreciate their historical significance in world football.

However now that Brazil have not won the Olympic gold that they clearly wanted badly, with a group a talented but massively hyped youngsters. Once expects their coach to be sacked, if they are true to form.

But what does this defeat really mean?. IMO it just continues along the trend ever since Brazil were knocked out in the 2006 WC quarter-finals/2007 Copa America win. Which is Brazil are searching for an identity without much luck.

Before their Olympics, BBC sports South American guru, Tim Vickery had an insightful article articulating this issue: Can Brazil rekindle their magic? - ESPN Soccernet

Spain's Euro 2012 triumph - their third consecutive international title - has prompted many to reach for comparisons with Brazilian sides of old in the quest to answer the bar-room question: Which is the world's best-ever international team?


Fun stuff, but given the difficulties of comparing teams from different eras, it may be more worthwhile to peer in the other direction, looking forward rather than backward when making Brazil/Spain comparisons.

The specific question is this: What impact might the success of Spain have on future Brazil sides?

It already has the pundits thinking. Andre Kfouri, one of Brazil's best, devoted the back cover of Lance!, Brazil's sports daily, after the Euros to the definitive reappearance of the smaller, thinking central midfielder.

"There was a time when they seemed doomed to extinction," he wrote. "Their territory had been occupied by modern gladiators, in armour of muscles and warlike concepts. With a destructive mentality, they were the ones with the task of winning the battle that determines the result of most football matches. They transformed the centre of the field into giant walls. Bricks, cement and barbed wire. It has taken a long time, but the wall has fallen."

In Brazil, the wall has fallen from a greater height than elsewhere. The likes of Spain's Xavi and Andres Iniesta, plus Andrea Pirlo of Italy, for that matter, have proved their worth once more. But where are the Brazilian equivalents? It is worth recalling that in the previous World Cup, Brazil's central midfield was made up of the ugly tandem of Gilberto Silva and Felipe Melo - giant, combative and anything but thoughtful and aesthetically pleasing - and this in the zone of the pitch where Brazil used to field the best passers of the ball.

How could this be? Because in football, first comes the idea. And Brazilian football in recent years has been dominated by the idea that everything has been changed by the physical development of the game. The seeds were planted after the defeat to Netherlands in the 1974 World Cup. Used to time on the ball, Brazil's midfield were undone by the high-energy pressing of the Dutch. If this was to be the future, in Brazil's collective mind anyway, then conclusions could be drawn. One was that Brazil's players needed to bulk up. Less space on the field resulted in more physical contact, meaning that the players - especially in the heat of the battle in central midfield - had to be bigger. In the absence of any European physical advantage, it was felt, superior individual ability would tip the balance Brazil's way.

The other conclusion was that possession football was dead. There was no longer enough space on the field to work the elaborate midfield moves of old. The way forward was to block the opposition and launch lightning counter attacks down the flanks. Brazil became a team of Silva and Maicon, a converted centre-back, providing a block in midfield and a skilful athletic runner to burst forward from right back, respectively. Throw in some strikers with unquestionable genius - the likes of Romario in 1994 and Ronaldo thereafter - and for a while it worked very nicely.

But it has not worked so well of late, and even when it was winning titles - Brazil's fifth, and last, World Cup came in 2002 - the new model left older fans pining for the more exuberant days of the past. This, said the technocrats of the Brazilian game, was nothing but dewy-eyed nostalgia. There could be no turning back. Only hopeless romantics could deceive themselves into thinking that the winning formula in today's game could involve little midfielders playing a possession-based game.

Obviously, no one told Spain. Not knowing it was impossible, La Roja went and did it anyway. Their three consecutive major titles rank with anything in the history of the world game. A by-product of their achievement is that it has left those Brazilian technocrats wearing the emperor's new clothes.

And so Brazil now seeks to change direction. Taking over after the last World Cup, national team coach Mano Menezes stated right off that he was aiming to wean the team off an excessive dependence on the counter attack. Events at Euro 2012 have merely confirmed his view. He commented that the best teams were looking to elaborate more in midfield and that Brazil had to make improvements in this area, especially in terms of being more patient when in possession.

First comes the idea; then come the players to carry it out. But they do not come at once, even in a country that produces as much talent as Brazil. Those players have to be nurtured, brought up with a philosophy of play as Barcelona does with their youngsters and as Spain have done with their youth sides.

Brazil can always count on extraordinary individual talent, but how quickly can they groom midfielders with the technical ability and tactical intelligence of a Xavi, an Iniesta, a Pirlo, a Bastian Schweinsteiger? Can Brazil do this in time for the 2014 World Cup on its home soil? The clock is ticking.

Essentially he painting the picture that since the 1974 world cup, Brazil have depended solely on natural great individual skill to win them games (Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Romario, Ronaldino, Kaka etc etc etc) and have moved away from the magic mid-field play of their legendary 1970 team - which Spain has coincidentally reverted to in their modern domination of world football.

So they are hoping the likes of Oscar, Ganson, Neymar, Lucas can be their registra and triquartista versions of Xavi, Pirlo, Xabi, Iniesta. Moving away from the period of hard tackling mid-fielders like Emmerson, Edu, Dunga, Gilberto Silva, Felipe Melo, Sandro, Julio Baptista

Fortunately for the Brazil clubs pocket and unfortunately for the world, they seems to have already accepted these young kids as the real deal, while conveniently ignoring these dynamics of Brazil's decline,. The money Chelsea and PSG have thrown at Oscar and Lucas is stunning leap of fate and if Neymar and Leandro follow suite to Europe its crazy to think how much they will cost too.

The pressure Oscar and Lucas will be crazy in the next two years - if they don't star up at Chelsea and PSG.

If they can live up and you add experienced players like Julio Cesar, Alves, David Luiz, Ramires, Lucas Leiva Andre Santos or Adriano Corriea at left-back - the team can certainly be very strong. On paper it may be then come 2014, they may be the team best equipped to stop Spain:

---------------------------------Julio Cesar--------------------------

Alves---------Thiago Silva-----David Luiz-----Marcelo/Santos/Adrianno

------------------Sandro------------Lucas/Ramirez------------------

-------------------------------Oscar------------------------------

Hulk------------------------Leandro-----------------Neymar-------

But clearly the time is very short and this Olympics defeat would have clearly hindered that and if they don't win the Confederations Cup next year, then i think world would need to stop treating Brazilian talent its still the most unique commodity in world football.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

Thought Oscar was quality at the Olympics. Played a pivotal part in the system keeping the shape together, something Ganso failed to do. Very smart player with lots of skill on the ball. On paper, Brazil have a really, really strong squad forming for the World Cup.

 

[War]

Thought Oscar was quality at the Olympics. Played a pivotal part in the system keeping the shape together, something Ganso failed to do. Very smart player with lots of skill on the ball. On paper, Brazil have a really, really strong squad forming for the World Cup.

What killed Gonso was in the Copa America 2011, those rough South American defenders didn't give him time to dictate play as a triquartista.

Oscar looks talented in that role as well, but he didn't get that kind of test in the Olympics. He will encountered in the premier league if Chelsea give him enough playing time, only then we will know if he is the real deal.

Paper strong talent is all Brazil have at the moment.

 

[Bevab]

Everyone is really somewhat over-hyped. You don't see the Mexicans, who also have a good youth system getting overpriced like the Brazilians.

 

[War]

BBC - Tim Vickery: Brazil's Menezes under pressure after Olympic defeat

 

[Auwais]

They're still a work in progress, obviously. Plenty of growing talent up front but I worry that they might end up too top-heavy like the Brazil of 2006.

They rely far too much on Thiago Silva at the back. The emergence of R?mulo is promising though, they've lacked a good passer from deep for a long time.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

What I want to know is what kind of effect is hosting the World Cup and Olympics pretty much back to back going to have on Brazil's economy? The rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer I suppose.

 

[Auwais]

One of the reasons behind their booming economy is a thriving middle-class bridging the gap between the ultra-poor and ultra-rich.

They're about to overtake the UK as the sixth-biggest economy in the world.

 

[War]

They're still a work in progress, obviously. Plenty of growing talent up front but I worry that they might end up too top-heavy like the Brazil of 2006.

They rely far too much on Thiago Silva at the back. The emergence of R?mulo is promising though, they've lacked a good passer from deep for a long time.

Ye that's true. As Tim Vickery said they probably haven't had such a mid-fielder since Gerson in 1970.

 

[War]

BBC - Tim Vickery: Neymar must leave comfort zone to fulfil promise

Yep i'd say Neymar has to leave Brazil. I personally believe he has to prove he can deal with better defences or else he will end up like Robinho.

Oscar Chelsea's career will also be very interesting leading up the world cup.

 

[spooony]

This is whats going to happen

 

[War]

Brazil boss claims Spain are incomparable - ESPNFC

I know it was only Iraq, but it was interesting to see the apparently rejuvenated Kaka and his protege Oscar working in tandem in mid-field.

 

[War]

Brazil find renewed fluidity and winning blueprint without a striker | Guardian Sport Network | Football | guardian.co.uk

 

[Auwais]

It's a good Plan B but I'd be surprised if Dami?o isn't leading the frontline in 2014.

Still, a lot can change in two years.

 

[War]

It's a good Plan B but I'd be surprised if Dami?o isn't leading the frontline in 2014.

Still, a lot can change in two years.

Yea although at the moment i sorta suspect Brazil are about 80-90% sure about what their best squad of players is for the cup. I reckon only very poor performances in next years confederations cup can cause much serious changes.