ICC updates Drug Code (FINALLY)

[FreddieFan]

I am certainly no expert when it comes to drugs, but surely as a proffesional sportsman you have to take responsibilty for what goes into your body. If you are told to take something, you pick up the phone, call someone who knows what they're talking about (a doctor, a physio, etc - even if they don't know themselves surely they can put you onto someone who does) or even check with the ICC - I'm sure if you asked the anti-doping section if you is allowed to take a particular product then I can't see them refusing to answer you.

I don't know whether Asif and Akhtar intentionally took drugs - I'm not even sure about the circumstances in which they failed their tests - I haven't been following it that closely. But surely, it is only common sense that you protect your livlihood by ensuring you do not, intentionally or otherwise, take a banned substance. When it comes to drugs in sport, for me, ignorance is no excuse.

There's no solid proof they intentionally took the drugs, or EVEN IF THEY TOOK DRUGS.

Intentionally or not, it is banned, and with good reason. Say I'm a weightlifter. My private chef is giving me food into which he has, for whatever reason, filled with steroids. This is found out and I am approched about the matter. 'I didn't know,' I say, 'you can't stop me competing, it wasn't my fault.' I go on to win an Olympic gold, beating all the other natural athletes - is this fair? Isn't to me.

 

[Adarsh]

Yep, they should be banned. However, you should keep in mind that Shane Warne got away with drugs too. Surprising that there is still huge amounts of adoration and respect for him, despite the guy being a cheat. Yes, he's good but then so's Asif, arguably.

Warne should've been banned for longer than he was out for. However, he was punished, unlike the Pakistanis who've got away with nothing.

 

[RoboRocks]

Well Warne lost the right to captian Australia which he had the right skills to do so after Steve Waugh.
The Austrlaian selectors could not trust him to captain their country.

I cannot see Akthar coming back after this with no competitve cricket.

Asif will be back but he won't be the bowler he was seeing as he won't be playing to much competitve cricket either.

 

[smssia0112]

Being unfortunate has a whole lot to do with it. How do you know what the Pakistani teams do in Pakistan? I WENT THROUGH THE SYSTEM. They do not each ANYTHING about drugs. Between June 2005 to March of 2007, there was NOTHING about drugs, either in Urdu, or in English. In April, they started teaching, and we learned about it. But before that, nobody here knew exactly what they were in the rural areas of Pakistan. I played in Islamabad, so surely you would think they would teach us here? The fault clearly lies with the PCB for that.

Really, are you in fact a Pakistani cricketer? I had you down as an ignorant 12 year old who has no idea about the seriousness of taking steroids.

Yes, he is fortunate. How do I know? He grew up in Sheikhapura. If you went there, and asked anybody on the street, what is nandrolone? What are drugs?

The answer you would get are cigrrattes, shisha, pot, etc. If you asked are there any athletic drugs, to anybody in that city, you would get an answer similar to that of "They are non existant"

He grew up there, and from the sounds of it, you didn't.

Please do not even speak about how I know, without even visiting Pakistan, and these poor cities - because once you visit them, its very obvious.

What makes you say that I have never visited Pakistan before? Do you know me as well as you know Mohammad Asif and Shoaib Akhtar and the entire population of Sheikhapura?

Well, IMO, blaming somebody for doing something he didn't even know. He was given it by the county therapist, but stopped when the Pakistani physio told him to. He did nothing wrong, but listen to the people who should have known what they are giving their players - the Leicestershire coaching staff and physio are fully responsible.

YOu seem like you are best friends with Mohammad Asif, if you know that he didn't know what drugs were. And why is Asif the only one who's been given this mysterious drug by Leicestershire? And why wouldn'tthey explain what it is before giving it to him? Don't you think that they might have explained about the drug first? Would you take anything your coach gave you without a single question?

To add to that, and your previous claim that there is no education about drugs in Pakistan from the PCB, perhaps the constant drug tests may have tipped Asif off to the fact that there is such thing as a steroid or banned substance. Or even the newspaper? Are you saying that Asif has never heard of anyone using drugs before as well? Does your friendship with him tell you that? Perhaps he watched the Olympics? Or heard about it from a teammate? There's no way he lived under a rock and hadn't heard of drugs at all, ever.

I am against drug use at all, but Mohammad Asif had no idea. If you grew up in the same city he did, and was just as talented as him, went on to play international cricket, I can assure you - the same would have happened to you.

That I would become a drug cheat and then claim innocence by ignorance (which is not a defense for anything by the way)? How do you know so much about my alternate lives as well? Personally I would have asked what the container of pills was before I took it.

Mohammad Asif had a more convincing story, BACKED up by the county coaching staff, and the Pakistani physio.

Which one? The unintentional one, the unaware one, the meat one or the strange county drug that no one else has been found guilty of taking at that county or anywhere else?

Asif and Shoaib aren't the best of mates off the field

Again, you speak as if you are Asif's best friend and know everything about him.

INTENTIONALLY.[/B]

He denied knowing about it, just as Asif did, but you believe one person and not the other? And Warne got banned for that, Shoaib and Asif didn't. That's the whole point. There is no excusable situation fro taking drugs, except, accoridng to you, being Pakistani.

There's no solid proof they intentionally took the drugs, or EVEN IF THEY TOOK DRUGS.

There's a positive drug test that says that they took them, and for goodness sake, who unintentionally does drugs? I'll bet you believed Shane Warne when he said his mum gave him the steroids. Oh wait, I forgot, he's Australian, so you didn't.

Asif will be back but he won't be the bowler he was seeing as he won't be playing to much competitve cricket either.

Unfortunately, Asif has been playing cricket, he was playing well against South Africa on Pakistan's tour of the Proteas last year.

Finally ,even if we say that he didn't know what drugs were, that he had no idea that he was taking them, that he was eating a lot of meat and all of your other excuses, that doesn't change anything, because....

HE TOOK DRUGS. HE DESERVES TO BE PUNISHED. END OF STORY.

There is no excuse, not even ignorance. If someone is arrested for dealing or taking drugs in the streets, they don't get off because they didn't know it was against the law, or that they didn't know they were taking drugs.

 

[Sureshot]

Yep, they should be banned. However, you should keep in mind that Shane Warne got away with drugs too.

Warne should've been banned for longer than he was out for. However, he was punished, unlike the Pakistanis who've got away with nothing.

If he was punished (which he was) he didn't really get away with it did he?

Personally for me I think coming down hard on drug cheats is the way to go. If you want to take the that risk then you can risk finishing your career here and now.

 

[angryangy]

If that's the case then it must put into doubt many cases?

Why deny the B sample though? Why has there been a lack of support from major organisations who would know about the high protein diet? I sure haven't heard many people defend them.

Personally, I don't hear of many people testing positive for any drugs, much less how they defend. Particularly in cricket, it's really not common. All I can say is that the process through which the PCB tried the players was an utter shambles. Based on the initial reaction, where they opted not to defend and refused a b-sample, you'd think they were admitting guilt, but then what ensued sheds so much doubt on the first situation, that even the players seemed like pawns in some bizarre intra-political game.

I just don't think it's fair on clean players to call it one way or the other, from that sort of a system.

On the other topic, it doesn't help to be too presumptuous on Warne's case. He tested positive for a diuretic, which is not an anabolic steroid or any sort of performance enhancing drug (unless you're a jockey or boxer trying to make a weight category). Diuretics cause the body to produce more urine. Caffeine is a mild diuretic. Aside from where weight control is important, the main reason they are banned in most sports is because creating more urine can be used to mask other drugs.

Warne's defence was that he was given them by his mother as a "diet pill" and did not know they were a banned substance. Evidently, unawareness was not a suitable defence, as he was banned for a year.

Nevertheless it will never be determined whether he took other drugs that were masked by the diuretic. Increasing muscle mass certainly doesn't seem important to a player who never bowled fast and if anything he got smaller and leaner as he went on. A popular theory is that Warne, an infamous "party boy" may have taken a recreational drug such as ecstasy that he didn't want to get caught with.

The bottom line is that he was tried by a fair system and did the punishment, neither of which happened to the other two.

 

[Sureshot]

Personally, I don't hear of many people testing positive for any drugs, much less how they defend. Particularly in cricket, it's really not common.

I know it's not that common (unlike somewhere like say Athletics, boxing, Wrestling, etc) but even if it's only one professional every couple of years it's still too much.

 

[playkid12]

How should I know what the Leicester physo gave him?

Yes, it is a coincidence. Akhtar doesn't play for county.

Akhtar and Asif aren't friends. They rarely speak to each other. If anything, they are aquaintences (excuse the spelling)

Akhtar - I can see him being guilty. He was taught about drugs in 1998.

Asif - I can't - he never knew about it.

You seem to know a lot about the Pakistan team's inner workings Zmario, did you recently play for them?

Listen, whether intentional or not, they both took the drugs. They're both grown adults and had heard of the existence of drugs (if not from society, the media, education, then surely from Shane Warne's incident..again, im not saying Nandrolene, but drugs in general). If Asif was from a very innocent society, then how did he acquire them? Surely it couldn't have been openly sold. He must've gotten them from a really secluded or small place. When you buy stuff like this from that kind of a source, you have to do a lot of research on it and know what you're taking not only because it can be drugs, but what if its something that could harm him worse. He had a physio along with a team of experts that work in sports medicine. He should've consulted them to see if it was legal before starting it. It's just not smart to start an unknown product if you're an international cricketer. The reason why performance enhancers are banned is because they're unnatural and unfair. Both Asif and Shoaib were unfair, whether intentional or not. And their ignorance isn't completely PCB's fault. It's the player's duty to consult professionals on what they're taking is legal by international standards - it's called responsibility. Nandrolone is a steroid that occurs naturally in the body, just like any steroid. However, its found in really small amounts. The amount set by most sports, including cricket, is 2 ng/ml from what I know. Believe me, no one can have that much nandrolone without taking the steroids. It's not human to produce that much. If you're saying that they didn't take it, it's not true and no one out of pakistan will believe you. If you're pleading innocence because of ignorance, it's still their fault for not consulting anyone before taking them. They're professional cricketers, they need to be more responsible. They're lucky to have been given another chance. I wouldn't have given it to them if I was in charge.

As far as Warne's concerned, why is he still playing again? I hate that guy. You shouldn't be allowed to get away with performance enhancers, its ridiculous!

 

[smssia0112]

You seem to know a lot about the Pakistan team's inner workings Zmario, did you recently play for them?

Listen, whether intentional or not, they both took the drugs. They're both grown adults and had heard of the existence of drugs (if not from society, the media, education, then surely from Shane Warne's incident..again, im not saying Nandrolene, but drugs in general). If Asif was from a very innocent society, then how did he acquire them? Surely it couldn't have been openly sold. He must've gotten them from a really secluded or small place. When you buy stuff like this from that kind of a source, you have to do a lot of research on it and know what you're taking not only because it can be drugs, but what if its something that could harm him worse. He had a physio along with a team of experts that work in sports medicine. He should've consulted them to see if it was legal before starting it. It's just not smart to start an unknown product if you're an international cricketer. The reason why performance enhancers are banned is because they're unnatural and unfair. Both Asif and Shoaib were unfair, whether intentional or not. And their ignorance isn't completely PCB's fault. It's the player's duty to consult professionals on what they're taking is legal by international standards - it's called responsibility. Nandrolone is a steroid that occurs naturally in the body, just like any steroid. However, its found in really small amounts. The amount set by most sports, including cricket, is 2 ng/ml from what I know. Believe me, no one can have that much nandrolone without taking the steroids. It's not human to produce that much. If you're saying that they didn't take it, it's not true and no one out of pakistan will believe you. If you're pleading innocence because of ignorance, it's still their fault for not consulting anyone before taking them. They're professional cricketers, they need to be more responsible. They're lucky to have been given another chance. I wouldn't have given it to them if I was in charge.

As far as Warne's concerned, why is he still playing again? I hate that guy. You shouldn't be allowed to get away with performance enhancers, its ridiculous!

Great post, agree with most of it.

Regarding Warne, he got a one year ban, Shoaib and Asif got off with nothing. Warne was dished out the ban (which as has been said wasn't exactly a performance enhancing drug) and he took it. He returned because he paid his dues and was allowed back in.

Now Asif and Shoaib have both been let off for taking a worse drug anyway.

 

[Will_NA]

As far as Warne's concerned, why is he still playing again? I hate that guy. You shouldn't be allowed to get away with performance enhancers, its ridiculous!

He took Cocaine.

 

[Insomniac]

None of that has anything to do with it. It simply isn't a good excuse. Asif, poor upbringing or not, is a professional sportsman. If he doesn't find out everything about what is going into his body, then he's a moron, plain and simple.

He trusts the people who should know about it - the county physio and the Pakistani physio.

He was new into the side, and the people who SHOULD know what they're giving their players are trusted when you're new in the team.

If that's the case then it must put into doubt many cases?

Why deny the B sample though? Why has there been a lack of support from major organisations who would know about the high protein diet? I sure haven't heard many people defend them.

If you read the long PCB's report, they had experts come in about the high protein diet.

That is so naive! *I'll stop quoting the Kooks songs now* So you mean that while he was at Leicestershire or at a cricket side in Pakistan, he never had a routine drugs test? He will have done and so he will have known about drugs, ignorance is a poor excuse to be honest.

No, he never did. The one that the PCB did in Late September / Early October was Asif's first drug test (The one that came up with Nandrolone)

 

[smssia0112]

He trusts the people who should know about it - the county physio and the Pakistani physio.

He was new into the side, and the people who SHOULD know what they're giving their players are trusted when you're new in the team.


If you read the long PCB's report, they had experts come in about the high protein diet.


No, he never did. The one that the PCB did in Late September / Early October was Asif's first drug test (The one that came up with Nandrolone)

No, he never did. The one that the PCB did in Late September / Early October was Asif's first drug test (The one that came up with Nandrolone)

Once again I ask how you know what Asif thinks and who he trusts? You seem to have knowledge of everything he thinks and feels and says and does.

 

[Insomniac]

It's about time. I find it preposterous that these two disgraces to the game have gone unpunished. The ICC and PCB are completely and utterly spineless; Drug using sportsman should be made an example of, not let off scott-free. Warne had the same excuse as these two, he did his punishment and wasn't weasled out of it. Disgraceful.

Warne did crack cocaine...

I don't see how thats an accident.

 

[smssia0112]

Warne did crack cocaine...

I don't see how thats an accident.

It's not, Matt said that Warne used the accident excuse (and he didn't test positive for cocaine) with the same level of proof, and he didn't get off.

 

[Insomniac]

I am certainly no expert when it comes to drugs, but surely as a proffesional sportsman you have to take responsibilty for what goes into your body. If you are told to take something, you pick up the phone, call someone who knows what they're talking about (a doctor, a physio, etc - even if they don't know themselves surely they can put you onto someone who does) or even check with the ICC - I'm sure if you asked the anti-doping section if you is allowed to take a particular product then I can't see them refusing to answer you.

I don't know whether Asif and Akhtar intentionally took drugs - I'm not even sure about the circumstances in which they failed their tests - I haven't been following it that closely. But surely, it is only common sense that you protect your livlihood by ensuring you do not, intentionally or otherwise, take a banned substance. When it comes to drugs in sport, for me, ignorance is no excuse.



Intentionally or not, it is banned, and with good reason. Say I'm a weightlifter. My private chef is giving me food into which he has, for whatever reason, filled with steroids. This is found out and I am approched about the matter. 'I didn't know,' I say, 'you can't stop me competing, it wasn't my fault.' I go on to win an Olympic gold, beating all the other natural athletes - is this fair? Isn't to me.

Actually it seems fair enough - you never intentionally took it. You never knew about it.

And thats what the PCB said.

It's not, Matt said that Warne used the accident excuse (and he didn't test positive for cocaine) with the same level of proof, and he didn't get off.

But there was a law in place - the Australian Sports Drug Ban (or something of the sort)

That law isn't in place in Pakistan.

The PCB adhered to all the current laws they had, including their on Drug Code made in 2002.

The PCB law is now the same as the WADA one.

Yep, they should be banned. However, you should keep in mind that Shane Warne got away with drugs too. Surprising that there is still huge amounts of adoration and respect for him, despite the guy being a cheat. Yes, he's good but then so's Asif, arguably.

Warne should've been banned for longer than he was out for. However, he was punished, unlike the Pakistanis who've got away with nothing.

They were banned for 5 months. (October to January)