Ashes debate thread.

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puddleduck said:
Yes they probably are, but that doesn't stop Harmison, Plunket/Mahmood or Hoggard being useful with the bat. Afterall just because Ponting is a better bat then Hussey, doesn't by any means make Hussey useless.

I think you probably picked the wrong word earlier when using "useless".

Regarding Englands batting depth, our tail is noticeably longer without Giles, but they still have the ability to eke out some runs, and with Panesar look more like taking wickets, so potentially are more dangerous, as it is wickets that win you test matches.

That all said, our actual batting depth in the top 6 now looks a lot stronger than it did before the Ashes, with some real competition for places emerging, and plenty of it from players under 26.



hussey > ponting

Ponting has had the chance, If Hussey debuted when he should of (when he was around 20 :p) He WOULD be the best in the world and I have NO doubt about that.
 
andrew_nixon said:
It's only been 18 months.....
Well actually its more like a year, the last test was in September last year :p
 
Ah yes, so thats my mistake then :)
 
irottev said:
35 still isn't bad and I was more going by the ODI's. I can't even remember the last time we played Australia in a test. Such a long time ago.

Yeah but you wouldn't say he dominated enough to cause Australia to 'struggle'.

langerrox said:
hussey > ponting

Ponting has had the chance, If Hussey debuted when he should of (when he was around 20 ) He WOULD be the best in the world and I have NO doubt about that.

He should've atleast been in the team over Mark Waugh. Though, Hussey was naturally an opener and I wouldn't of chosen him over Michael Slater nor Mark Taylor. You dunno how well Hussey would've gone in his early 20's because much like Hayden & Martyn, they failed early on in their careers and worked their way back into the Australian side and became great players much like Hussey is now.
 
No, your right I wouldn't. I never named anyone. I was meaning in general. For some reason I was under the impression Kaneria did well. I have a shocking memory, I am mixing ODI's with tests, he didn't either. Theres quite a few nice hauls in the Vettori lot though 6 from 14 tests. But your right, it was a bad comment as it is totally wrong. Forget I commented.

*holds up white flag*

Trust me, 18 months seems like ages. I actually remember the tests now. I was in Auckland at the time of them. We had so many injuries and some crappy filler batsmen.
 
irottev said:
No, your right I wouldn't. I never named anyone. I was meaning in general. For some reason I was under the impression Kaneria did well. I have a shocking memory, I am mixing ODI's with tests, he didn't either. Theres quite a few nice hauls in the Vettori lot though 6 from 14 tests. But your right, it was a bad comment as it is totally wrong. Forget I commented.

*holds up white flag*

Trust me, 18 months seems like ages. I actually remember the tests now. I was in Auckland at the time of them. We had so many injuries and some crappy filler batsmen.

The last time Australia struggled against spin or atleast I think was against India in 2001 against Harbhajan Singh. Punter averaged like 3 runs for the series, Gilchrist scored a century in the 1st game and then bagged a GOLDEN pair in the 2nd. I guess the only shinning light in that series was Hayden who averaged 109 with the bat with a double ton to go with that. Nevertheless, we were dominating that series and before we knew it we had McGrath & Gillespie batting just to save the series!

I don't think Panesar will do anything near that Australia although I watched some disturbing footage of Jim Laker tearing through the Aussie batting order in the early to mid '50s.
 
wfdu_ben91 said:
The last time Australia struggled against spin or atleast I think was against India in 2001 against Harbhajan Singh. Punter averaged like 3 runs for the series, Gilchrist scored a century in the 1st game and then bagged a GOLDEN pair in the 2nd. I guess the only shinning light in that series was Hayden who averaged 109 with the bat with a double ton to go with that. Nevertheless, we were dominating that series and before we knew it we had McGrath & Gillespie batting just to save the series!

I don't think Panesar will do anything near that Australia although I watched some disturbing footage of Jim Laker tearing through the Aussie batting order in the early to mid '50s.

How about the 1st test against Bangladesh 6 months back?? Rafique from memory picked up 5 wickets or so in the match.

Once again you are underestimating Monty's ability. If Monty can trouble the best batsmens in the world against spin such as Yousuff, Tendulkar, Inzi and a few Pakistan and Sri Lankan batsmans in conditions where you'd expect to have less turn than in Sydney, Adelaide and Perth, than I expect him to do well in Aus. This doesn't mean taking 7 or 8 wickets in every match but to keep pressure at one end and get one of the quickies to do damage at the other end (similar to what Aus. do, with McGrath keeping pressure at one end and Lee attacking at the other). Also recent history has shown that Aus. are not too comfortable against left arm orthodox spinners so I expect an intriguing contest between Monty and the Aussie batsmens.
 
kodos said:
How about the 1st test against Bangladesh 6 months back?? Rafique from memory picked up 5 wickets or so in the match.

Once again you are underestimating Monty's ability. If Monty can trouble the best batsmens in the world against spin such as Yousuff, Tendulkar, Inzi and a few Pakistan and Sri Lankan batsmans in conditions where you'd expect to have less turn than in Sydney, Adelaide and Perth, than I expect him to do well in Aus. This doesn't mean taking 7 or 8 wickets in every match but to keep pressure at one end and get one of the quickies to do damage at the other end (similar to what Aus. do, with McGrath keeping pressure at one end and Lee attacking at the other). Also recent history has shown that Aus. are not too comfortable against left arm orthodox spinners so I expect an intriguing contest between Monty and the Aussie batsmens.

Fully agree.
Monty has the conditions in Australia to cause damage and becuase he has trouble the best players of spin like kodos said it shoulkd be a good contest.
 
kodos said:
How about the 1st test against Bangladesh 6 months back?? Rafique from memory picked up 5 wickets or so in the match.

Once again you are underestimating Monty's ability. If Monty can trouble the best batsmens in the world against spin such as Yousuff, Tendulkar, Inzi and a few Pakistan and Sri Lankan batsmans in conditions where you'd expect to have less turn than in Sydney, Adelaide and Perth, than I expect him to do well in Aus. This doesn't mean taking 7 or 8 wickets in every match but to keep pressure at one end and get one of the quickies to do damage at the other end (similar to what Aus. do, with McGrath keeping pressure at one end and Lee attacking at the other). Also recent history has shown that Aus. are not too comfortable against left arm orthodox spinners so I expect an intriguing contest between Monty and the Aussie batsmens.

Rafique didn't trouble Hayden or Ponting.

Recent history of left arm spin bowlers troubling us? If you're talking about Rafique then you should note down that he just didn't trouble what so ever 2 of our 3 best batsman. I don't know of any other left armers who could've troubled us.
 
Haha, Hayden and Ponting. Well you better hope then both of them make a big partnership then. Basicly what I am saying is that if the team as a whole was troubled it doesn't matter that 2 wern't.
 
irottev said:
Haha, Hayden and Ponting. Well you better hope then both of them make a big partnership then. Basicly what I am saying is that if the team as a whole was troubled it doesn't matter that 2 wern't.

Usually it's Langer, Hayden, Ponting & Hussey that make all of the runs and when they don't it's all up to Warne, Lee & Gillespie.
 
kodos said:
Once again you are underestimating Monty's ability. If Monty can trouble the best batsmens in the world against spin such as Yousuff, Tendulkar, Inzi and a few Pakistan and Sri Lankan batsmans in conditions where you'd expect to have less turn than in Sydney, Adelaide and Perth, than I expect him to do well in Aus.

Perth turn? You're joking right. Perth is probably a spinners worst nightmare. The only pitch in Australia that really turns is Sydney, Adelaide will on the 5th day. Guys like Warne and MacGill probably make Aussie pitches look better for spinners, but they could turn a cricket ball on glass. If Panesar stays positive and attacks the Aussie batsmen he will have some reasonable success. He is a far better option than Giles.
 
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