Review: First Impressions of DB14 on PC

[zimrahil]

I've managed a lot more edges online. Though had the keeper taking one at third slip...

I think basically, edges are in the game and right, but the AI doesn't fall for the same tricks that a human opponent does.

Human batting edges is about spot on

AI batting edges is a different matter. Been thinking about HBK's comment of not bowling enough high quality deliveries to get the edges. However I seem to bowl plenty of deliveries that lead to bowling the AI or plenty of LBW shouts

So does this mean bowled/LBW modes of dismissal require lower quality of delivery than getting edges? This cannot be right?

I dont agree the balance is right. I have played around with gameplay files for years tweaking edge probabilities and it is possible to get more chance of an edge and not ruin balance

As long as variety of edge is there (I.e. thickness of edge is varied) then increase in edge probability works

Another factor is I currently only play on veteran. I wonder if likelihood of edge is toned down too much at higher levels? I wish at highest skill levels the edge probability was increased slightly, increase variety of edges and ensure slip chances are occasionally dropped and all will be good with the world!

 

[whiteninness]

I can't tell you why, but when I play in overcast conditions the ball does swing more, this is not a set up for an argument, or an attack, or an opinion, I'm just telling you very calmly and very definitively that you are wrong.

Sorry but I value science over anecdotal evidence

This has been tested. It fails every time.

There ARE however legitimate reasons why there may be a correlation between swing and overcast conditions (note I said correlation, not causation). Perhaps it rained the night before (which would be connected with overcast conditions), the grass is less abrasive on the ball, causing it to keep its shine.

Can also be a confidence thing. A batsman sees clouds and gets a bit timid. A bowler sees clouds and feels confident. This is harder to quantify but I'm sure has an effect. Now a batsman feeling timid won't make the ball swing more through the air, but it may make him more likely to poke at one outside off, nick it to the keeper, and of course whenever someone nicks it to the keeper they feel like it was a ripping out-swinger

 

[ethybubs]

Sorry but I value science over anecdotal evidence

Science changes views based on observations. To value science would mean to understand the fragility of fact, and to take into account all evidence, however anecdotal, that is displayed.

Your confidence hypothesis does not explain how the swing is increased, because you are assuming that more swing equals more wickets, (granted that it generally does but it is not a given) a batsman can make a hundred and still claim that the ball was swinging more due to overcast conditions. As for your wet grass theory, It would mean that the swing does not increase for the first few overs of an overcast day compared to a clear day, and this idea is simply wrong.

 

[Rowdoss]

There was a scientific study in the 80s by a scientist from NASA that concluded cloud cover was a myth, However his methods were fairly flawed.
Most recently a joint study involving Universities from England and New Zealand concluded:

""This study shows that there is no direct or indirect manner in which humidity can significantly affect the ability of the bowler to make the ball swing," they concluded in research published in the online journal Procedia Engineering this week.
"It is therefore logical to conclude that humidity may not have the significant influence on swing bowling that is widely assumed."
"Instead, the researchers put forward their own theory that cloud cover provided the ideal environment for swing bowling because it reduced turbulence in the air caused by heating from sunlight."
They say such still conditions meant the air surrounding the ball during the delivery was less likely to be disturbed, making it easier to produce the "asymmetrical" flight needed for swing bowling.

"What is clear is that the scientific community should turn their attention away from the question of humidity and focus their efforts to test the cloud cover hypothesis," they say.

 

[Alberts]

Human batting edges is about spot on

AI batting edges is a different matter. Been thinking about HBK's comment of not bowling enough high quality deliveries to get the edges. However I seem to bowl plenty of deliveries that lead to bowling the AI or plenty of LBW shouts

So does this mean bowled/LBW modes of dismissal require lower quality of delivery than getting edges? This cannot be right?

I dont agree the balance is right. I have played around with gameplay files for years tweaking edge probabilities and it is possible to get more chance of an edge and not ruin balance

As long as variety of edge is there (I.e. thickness of edge is varied) then increase in edge probability works

Another factor is I currently only play on veteran. I wonder if likelihood of edge is toned down too much at higher levels? I wish at highest skill levels the edge probability was increased slightly, increase variety of edges and ensure slip chances are occasionally dropped and all will be good with the world!

I don't think it's the edge chance that's the problem still, but rather how the AI act. Whilst it's better now, it seems that they still only make quite large mistakes most of the time, and not enough small ones. They still tend to miss it by a lot and there aren't enough "oooh" moments around the edge. This is just going to be a balance thing with the AI over time.

That issue seems linked to the "dressing room shot" as well, so I think the AI still needs some work in general. But that's to be expected at this point. They're definitely getting it closer to right each update.

 

[zimrahil]

I don't think it's the edge chance that's the problem still, but rather how the AI act.

So why is HBK saying you need to bowl enough high quality deliveries to get chance of more edges suggesting a direct correlation between the two?

What you are saying suggests perhaps otherwise? (though I think everyone agrees the AI doesn't play and miss by a small margin enough times)

 

[Alberts]

So why is HBK saying you need to bowl enough high quality deliveries to get chance of more edges suggesting a direct correlation between the two?

What you are saying suggests perhaps otherwise? (though I think everyone agrees the AI doesn't play and miss by a small margin enough times)

Because he made the game and is understandably skeptical that there's a problem.

The fact that human players see plenty of edges between eachother (and AI against Human), but the AI don't suggests that the problem is with the AI. Maybe it is down to humans playing poor deliveries poorly and hence more edges from them, but I tend to get plenty of bowled and LBW wickets bowling to plans, yet edges are still surprisingly rare, as are close plays and misses. That suggests an AI issue, not an issue with edges.

To put that another way, if my lack of edges are down to poor bowling, then why are most of my wickets bowled and LBW? Are they saying that those are easier to get than edges? My bowling average is about 20 and strike rate around 45 in first class matches, yet it's still only about 2-3 edges a match of the 20 wickets.

I think the issue is down to how the AI still has this tendency to either middle or miss it most of the time, with small mistakes being few and far between. The problem isn't as bad as it was, but still needs some work. Clean bowling a top order batsmen should be less likely than getting an edge off him.

 

[handsome]

@hbk and @BigAntStudios Guys you have made a gem of a game. Hats off to you. I have specifically logged in by exiting the game to tell you of 2 awesome incidents which i have never experienced in cricket games.

1. Good length ball on the off stump. I play on the front foot but little outside the line, get an inside edge and caught by the keeper.

2. Full length ball on the leg stump going down towards the 4th stump. I play on the front foot but because i am early playing it, the ball kisses the backside of the bat and hits the leg stump.

Stand up and applaud

 

[whiteninness]

Science changes views based on observations. To value science would mean to understand the fragility of fact, and to take into account all evidence, however anecdotal, that is displayed.

Anecdotal "evidence" is very fragile. There are many myths in life that are perpetrated by hearsay, despite simple scientific tests to the contrary.

With regards to swing, the latest tests seem to show no connection with cloud cover. Perhaps there is some other effect, along the lines of what Rowdoss posted, but it isn't proven yet.

 

[blackcapsfan]

Another factor is I currently only play on veteran. I wonder if likelihood of edge is toned down too much at higher levels? I wish at highest skill levels the edge probability was increased slightly, increase variety of edges and ensure slip chances are occasionally dropped and all will be good with the world!

Just to add my 5 cents to this discussion RE: Edges, I have been playing career mode on PRO for about 55 hours now (according to my steam stats) and have not got a single edge. I bowl line and length, always hit the centre of the green indicators, and try and get some swing and seam and bowl the odd quicker ball. All my wickets are either caught at mid on /mid off, or somewhere on the circle square.

 

[whiteninness]

Your confidence hypothesis does not explain how the swing is increased, because you are assuming that more swing equals more wickets, (granted that it generally does but it is not a given) a batsman can make a hundred and still claim that the ball was swinging more due to overcast conditions. As for your wet grass theory, It would mean that the swing does not increase for the first few overs of an overcast day compared to a clear day, and this idea is simply wrong.

If people believe that clouds = more swing then it can cause batsman to lose confidence and bowlers to gain confidence. I've seen it first hand. They can also feel as though the ball is swinging more, even if it isn't. A lot of cricket is played between the ears.

The "wet grass theory" is far from well thought through, but just trying to give an example of how there could be a correlation between clouds and the true cause of more swing. There was also something along these lines hypothesised in one of the articles I've read, but it's been a few years.

 

[zimrahil]

Just to add my 5 cents to this discussion RE: Edges, I have been playing career mode on PRO for about 55 hours now (according to my steam stats) and have not got a single edge. I bowl line and length, always hit the centre of the green indicators, and try and get some swing and seam and bowl the odd quicker ball. All my wickets are either caught at mid on /mid off, or somewhere on the circle square.

Thanks for that.

Most of my comments above are in relation to HBK's suggestion that we are not bowling enough high quality deliveries to see a reasonable amount of edges
Hence my comment that get plenty of bowled/lbw so why not edges?

AI missing ball by miles might just be an animation /graphical issue and not physics issue. Who knows until BA give some feedback

If its a physics/config issue I still maintain this needs tweaking to increase slightly likelihood of an edge

Or maybe I just don't know what I am talking about

 

[Alberts]

Thanks for that.

Most of my comments above are in relation to HBK's suggestion that we are not bowling enough high quality deliveries to see a reasonable amount of edges
Hence my comment that get plenty of bowled/lbw so why not edges?

AI missing ball by miles might just be an animation /graphical issue and not physics issue. Who knows until BA give some feedback

If its a physics/config issue I still maintain this needs tweaking to increase slightly likelihood of an edge

Or maybe I just don't know what I am talking about

Increasing the likelihood of an edge will make more for the human players too, and there seems to a damn site more for them already (though maybe still not enough).

 

[zimrahil]

Depends on config files
EA had separate edge files for human and AI for example

 

[Hooper]

Depends on config files
EA had separate edge files for human and AI for example

Correct, worked well in C07. Im not too worried, someone will crack it.

I bowled 90 overs in a Test and got no edges..