ICC study reveals that 99% chuck

[hbkjai]

For the love of God PLEASE get your DAMN facts right before comin in here postin stupid sh*t about ' 3 times the limit', 'ICC relaxing rules for the sake of one bowler' or ' comparisons with fast bowlers who 'must' rotate their arms faster than a spinner'- ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh... The aussie idiots including people in the team like Warne were like ' The ICC should do all the testing in match conditions' and when the ICC actually DID test under match conditions with a 250 FPS- frames per sec- camera.. instead of the 50 FPS that you and I normally get to watch cricket from, they found 99% of the bowlers chuch under the EXISTING rules, so unless you wanna call bowlers like Mcgrath n Pollock for chucking , these guys .. and by guys I mean Bio -Mechanical experts decided on the certain limit.. which CAN be detected by the naked eye [ as opposed to what A.I's like Warne saying- how will the umpire know if it's 13,or 14 or watever']..
As expected this left a lot of people fuming.. uhh 'experts ' like Maninder Singh were all over ICC trying to save the world of cricket.. For once even the sensible Geoffrey Boycott got it wrong.. AH for people who still dont believe me, or dont WANNA believe me, you guys should've listened to what Michael Holding had to say while on commentary in the test match between Pakistan n Srilanka.. Remember he was one of the guys who kept on saying ' hyper-extension.. what.. that's not in the rules'.. and now he was like ' we the members of the ICC panel sat down with the Bio Mechanical experts who showed footage from the ICC championship trophy to back up their theories.. and what Mr.Holding said was ' that opened my eyes to the whole concept, I came to know about stuff that I never thought was possible, I couldnt believe what they were saying, yet they backed it up with their footages taken from ACTUAL matches'.. Again I direct your attention to the 250FPS n 50FPS issue.. true some idiots set the original limits to some sh*tty levels that resulted in this kinda confusion.. by the way uhh.. Murali's arm rotates at the same speed as that of a bowler who bowls at a similar pace to Brett Lee.. [who's quicker than Dizzy ] while bowling.. now you tell me what sense it makes then to have different limits for different bowlers.. THAT'S WHY the ICC are listening to what the REAL experts are saying.. and for once they appear to be on the right track... And oh if u take the wrist out of Murali's action, then you can see a completely normal action trust me!! It's his amazing wrist that always adds to the illusion..So PUHLEESE, think and think again before you say its all abt Murali.. its not.. its about the damn 99% of the bowlers all over the world dammit!!!! And of course the legends are gonna be ****ed when someone says they chucked too.. the fact of the matter is they didnt to the naked eye.. but under the current rules they did.. and 15% or more is DETECTABLE to the naked eye.... And oh I also heard Sanjay Manjrekar say while on commentary that they say a metal rod [having the similar joints as a human arm obviously] when rotated freely had some degree of flex!!! So there.. any questions???
And one final thing.. I agree with what Mr. John Buchanan said.. if 15% means that the bowlers will bring in more variations , it can only add to the whole challenge of playing the game for the batsmen.. and that can never be a bad thing in the era of supposedly weaker bowling standards that we have today..

 

[rahulk666]

99% bowlers used to the chuck but now they don't because ICC has allowed 15 degrees of flexion. I guess we will have to wait for another murali only to see ICC increasing the lfexion to 30 degrees. In a while international cricket will become like baseball (where bowlers will throw the ball instead of bowling it)

 

[djkay]

Lol... I can't believe some trolls that comes this forums and shout their mouth off without knowing all the facts. That's the problem these days, everyone believe they are experts on on cricket and don't listen to people that actually played the game and seen the scientific results. Oh well.....

 

[sohum]

99% bowlers used to the chuck but now they don't because ICC has allowed 15 degrees of flexion. I guess we will have to wait for another murali only to see ICC increasing the lfexion to 30 degrees. In a while international cricket will become like baseball (where bowlers will throw the ball instead of bowling it)

And then, one day, Martians will show that they truly exist and they will invade our world. They will find cricket to be a boring game and will ban it. And then all cricketers will be killed. And then the world will end and all human life will cease to exist. And then it will all begin once again. Tis the sad story of human life.

Lol... I can't believe some trolls that comes this forums and shout their mouth off without knowing all the facts. That's the problem these days, everyone believe they are experts on on cricket and don't listen to people that actually played the game and seen the scientific results. Oh well.....

Science, science, science. Logic, logic, logic. They are both quite faulty, I am sure you know. How can we trust the so-called research that has been conducted. Just because people have played cricket does not mean that they will be the best authority on the subject. Everyone has hidden agendas and anyone could be using this controversy to stir up some success. Let the game go on, is what I say.

 

[rahulk666]

And then, one day, Martians will show that they truly exist and they will invade our world. They will find cricket to be a boring game and will ban it. And then all cricketers will be killed. And then the world will end and all human life will cease to exist. And then it will all begin once again. Tis the sad story of human life.

What!! Please stop watching too many Sci-fi movies.

 

[Hondo]

Science, science, science. Logic, logic, logic. They are both quite faulty, I am sure you know. How can we trust the so-called research that has been conducted. Just because people have played cricket does not mean that they will be the best authority on the subject. Everyone has hidden agendas and anyone could be using this controversy to stir up some success. Let the game go on, is what I say.

So you are saying let all the chuckers just play the game. Science doesn't have ant credintial in cricket?

 

[hbkjai]

Science and logic maybe faulty..[sure] and as far as the research is concerned.. if you watched that telecast you would've noticed they showed various replays from that very camera which was used to conduct this 'so-called research'.. But I guess you must've missed it while you were away making a plan to protect the earth from the invading martians.. [ What the hell was that anway?!]
And so far its been obvious to anyone following cricket that it's the people with hidden agendas that are saying this is a bad move.. and I dont know about you, but I say having played at the highest level successfully for 10 + years does lend 'some' credibility to what the ex-player says.. especially if he was the memeber of the very committee that saw all the evidence from the uhh.. 'so called' research.. Maybe martians tinkered with the evidence aye mate? And the fact of the matter is that we CAN see for ourselves that pretty much everyone DOES flex their arm while bowling.. really have you been watching any replays at all??
Oh my god do these people even bother reading the whole posts?! It was clearly said that anything over 15 degrees was detectable to the naked eye.. so the umpire on the field can call it if you still haven't figured it out.. And that 30 degree and the baseball comparison is real cute... Shows you what a typical ignorant [over] reaction would look like...
P.S- Let the game go on.. how?

 

[fardin]

dude that is too much to read'

 

[sohum]

What!! Please stop watching too many Sci-fi movies.

Actually I detest Sci-fi movies. Can't watch one minute of them.

What the hell was that anway?!

You've identified yourself at the end of your post that the baseball comparison is a "typical ignorant [over] reaction". That was my feeling but I was trying to get it through in another manner. Obviously people here take things a little bit too literally.

Science and logic maybe faulty..[sure]

Nice sarcasm there. Yeah, right. Good luck in your life, mate.

So you are saying let all the chuckers just play the game. Science doesn't have ant credintial [sic] in cricket?

Do you really want to get into a philosophical debate? I am not saying that science doesn't have any credential in cricket, although I am not sure that makes sense. We do not have to entertain extremes over here. All I am pointing out that there is some (maybe minute) chance that the findings may not be exactly what they are made out to be. Science is a pretty good source of knowledge but it is still not perfect. No source of knowledge is perfect. Every proper scientist that you meet would accept this fact and that is why they account for uncertainties and whatnot. But seriously, how much trust are you going to put on some research such as this? Another organization with anti-ICC interests could easily pull off a study that contradicts the ICC. Studies have almost no meaning because there is one to prove everything.

And the fact of the matter is that we CAN see for ourselves that pretty much everyone DOES flex their arm while bowling.. really have you been watching any replays at all??

Ah right. I forgot that you were one of those rare human beings who knew that 99% of the bowlers the ICC tested were chuckers. Oh, but you knew it already. I wonder why we are wasting time on this subject. Do you know how small a change it is between 15 and 16 degrees. And you expect the umpires (who are supposed to be looking for no-balls, wides, LBWs, edges, etc. anyway) to detect when the bowlers flex their arms slightly more or less, immediately?

I say having played at the highest level successfully for 10 + years does lend 'some' credibility to what the ex-player says.. especially if he was the memeber of the very committee that saw all the evidence from the uhh.. 'so called' research..

Oh, right. I forgot that while these guys were successfully playing cricket at the highest level for 10+ years they were simultaneously following a career in science, which would allow them to interact meaningfully with the evidence that they have now found. I am not making any accusations here, but, where is the money after cricket? You can either begin a business or shoot your mouth off on television. If you still want to make money, which one do you think is easier?

Oh my god do these people even bother reading the whole posts?!

I have two things to say to this. First of all, just reading the post does not amount to anything. One must significantly understand what is being said. And secondly, after understanding what has been said, you must communicate your thoughts on the subject. Just because you have written it (clearly, as you say) does not mean that I agree with it. Which is why I am here, discussing this topic. It also makes some sense to try and comprehend the thoughts that are being present here instead of just reading them close-mindedly and then reiterating what has already been said before, and what is already being disputed.

 

[hbkjai]

Look man I understand the reasons behind your doubt.. after all we have always made progress in science.. So then what do you suggest we do about the whole issue if we're not using any science at all? Let the umpires call out in the middle? In that case isn't the bowler's action scientifically analysed?? Or do you have in mind any other way to solve this? My point is, as long as we're relying on technology being used today.. we have to go by what it tells us.. NO half measures whatsoever!
And I stand by my statement that you can actually see the bowlers flexing their arms a little..Why do you think people watch replays and call a certain bowler a chucker?? So please please dont even try to be sarcastic over that one!! And woah so who do you think should be taking care of issues like this?? I mean with you I get the feeling any human being isnt beyond doubt as far as his intentions are concerned! Maybe we need that martian! Hello did anyone tell you what the umpires are gonna do with the 'calling' of a bowler aspect? They can't tell the difference between 15 and 16.. uhh.. that's where the technology and all the analysis comes in.. Oh but you don't trust it.. then why worry about 15 and 16.. we arrive at that figure with the help of technology you know! And finally just in case you didnt know.. [it sure seems like it].. the umpire standing at square leg is usually the one who notices something wrong with the action of a particular bowler.. for the simple reason that its easier for him!.. He then conveys it to the other umpire.. and if they both feel the same way, the bowler gets reported.. What else do I need to clarify?! I do feel I'm keepin an open mind.. or else I would've been the one going nuts over the 99% and 15 degrees issue and crying out its the end of cricket!!

 

[fardin]

dude i told you too much to read' take a shortcut dude' you just keep writing and you dont even care who is going to read it' that is too much to read' you can go ahead and make a book about chucking with that sort of writing'

 

[hbkjai]

LOL man I'm sorry.. I didnt wanna bore everyone to death either.. I'm done now no matter what he comes up with next.. ok?

 

[sohum]

dude i told you too much to read' take a shortcut dude' you just keep writing and you dont even care who is going to read it' that is too much to read' you can go ahead and make a book about chucking with that sort of writing'

I have nothing to say about this statement except...why don't you just not read it?

LOL man I'm sorry.. I didnt wanna bore everyone to death either.. I'm done now no matter what he comes up with next.. ok?

Ah you're not going to do anything no matter what I come up with next? That is the perfect way to have a discussion in a discussion forum right? We are here to debate and chat about stuff, not to read short posts. I may be wrong sometimes, you may be wrong sometimes but the fact of the matter is that we are sharing ideas. So if people like fardin don't like reading our ideas, they can just not read it. Simple stuff.

Now coming back to the topic. So what you are suggesting that the ICC suggests is that they have 250 FPS cameras at every cricket ground in the world that holds international level matches? And then, as soon as a ball is bowled, the information is processed immediately and then the umpires are somehow notified as soon as the action increases beyond the suggested amount. Let us not even think of the possibility of computer error here, just to keep things simple.

I am sure you are aware that an investment in such a technology would be quite expensive, although it would help drastically in cricket. Close run-out decisions will be better judged and now these bowling actions will also be sorted out. I question the ability of the ICC to extend this technological support to every cricket ground that hosts international cricket, in the world. It would be too expensive and on the other hand, they would have to make sure that they don't go half measures by excluding some grounds.

Regarding the ICC's studies, I am sure that the ICC put some amount of research into their initial limits of 5 degree, 7.5 degrees and 10 degrees. And now, they have only extended the limit to 15 degrees because their findings find that most bowlers are guilty of the initial stipulations. They haven't, yet, scientifically tested what legal limits should be. And then the question arrives as to why should this be a legal limit? There is the ethical question of what determines 15 degrees as being okay and 16 degrees as being chucking. How did the ICC come to this limit. If all the bowlers had been bowling in the range of 17-20 degrees, the ICC would have provided an even higher stipulation. This shows the arbitrary nature of this suggested stipulation.

As for the square leg umpires calling bowlers for chucking, I am not sure but I believe Daryll Hair was standing at the bowler's end when he called Murali for chucking. I am not certain of this and you may as well check out the facts. This just shows that he wasn't doing his job in the first place.

So finally, you ask, what is my suggestion that we do with chucking? Well I have stated my opinion earlier in this thread.

I think the ICC basically needs to get their heads out of their butt and just let the cricket be played. All the people who are screaming their heads off about Murali--I doubt anyone in their country will be able to reach as much success as Murali even if they did flex their arms as much as he does. That is the speciality he brings to the game--it is not a question of numbers.

One major problem with science is that we must assign numbers (a human-invented concept, by the way) to real-life things. This is difficult because sometimes humans just do not have the means to make the connections between the two. Whatever the ICC does, I think the most important thing is that they make sure that cricket is still played in the long run. Even when the Martians are here. :P

 

[andrew_nixon]

The ICC have decided on the limit of 15 degrees, as any higher is when the average human eye can clearly detect straightening. No equipment is needed at every game, although I'm sure the ICC will continue to research the matter.

 

[sohum]

The ICC have decided on the limit of 15 degrees, as any higher is when the average human eye can clearly detect straightening. No equipment is needed at every game, although I'm sure the ICC will continue to research the matter.

All right...thanks for clearing that up. One question that has always bugged me is why they call it straightening of the arm if the arm is always bending. Any explanations to this strangeness?