India in England Jun-Sept 2014

[richowebbo]

I can't agree. Moores has, for the most part, inherited a group of players that are possibly permanently scarred from the Ashes debacle. I hate to say it, but we could well be looking at the end of players like Cook and certainly Bell. Who's to say they will ever recover?

I think Ian Bell will get over this hump. Alistair Cook though, if he's not staying in for hours and hours, supporting the team, he has no place in the side. He can;t captain. Jimmy and Broad are constantly in his ear, because he doesn't know what he's doing.

Goodness I'm angry, excuse the many posts!

 

[blockerdave]

I can't agree. Moores has, for the most part, inherited a group of players that are possibly permanently scarred from the Ashes debacle. I hate to say it, but we could well be looking at the end of players like Cook and certainly Bell. Who's to say they will ever recover? I think it's a given that Prior is done as well.

Moores was shit in 2007, and shit now. Who is he blowing?

 

[abhi_jacko]

Now then, we have a discussion!

No, we don't

We are basically saying the same thing with different twists:

Basically, England fell into Dhoni/Ishant's short bowling trap and gifted the game away

 

[richowebbo]

No, we don't

We are basically saying the same thing with different twists:

Basically, England fell into Dhoni/Ishant's short bowling trap and gifted the game away

the word GIFT was in that post, you all saw it, right?!

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

But with 120 to get, with 5 wickets in hand and 2 sessions to get it, hooking 3 times in a row for the wickets with THREE MEN in the deep is gifting the game to the opposition. All they had to do was not hit it there, and 3 of them did. In a row.

given this is what I do in literally every single game of DBC I'm going to lay off them a bit.

 

[richowebbo]

Yep, one was stupid, two moronic, three just weak and ridiculous.

I can accept the first one, just... We were scoring quickly in that period it was sort if a calculated risk. KP vs Lee at the Oval in 2005, had he holed it we would have said how ridiculous it was to take such risks... They came off and we say what an unbelievable innings. So I can just about accept the Prior dismissal. The Stokes and Root ones were disgraceful

Yes, BUT, Matt Prior ain't no KP!

Stokes, has he bowled well enough to keep his place?

 

[War]

 

[richowebbo]

given this is what I do in literally every single game of DBC I'm going to lay off them a bit.

Probably for the best mate....remember, you can;t get hurt on DBC!

I always get out on DBC driving at wide ones. Must learn to press the leave button!

 

[War]

Be very difficult to justify dropping Ballance and promoting Bell right now. If you're dropping Cook on form I'd say you have to drop Bell too.

Personally I think Cook has to go as Captain. I think the best alternative captain is Morgan but I can't see how to get him in the side.

Oh yea, forgot about Ballance for a minute, yea can't drop him. I think Bell is just getting himself stupidly most of the time, I'm not seeing any major technical and mental flaws in his game like i do with Cook.

Morgan is only being suggested for captaincy because we acknowledge KP won't come back. That why is said "realistically" if all this crap wasn't going on KP would be in the team & would be captain.

 

[cricket_icon]

Moores was shit in 2007, and shit now. Who is he blowing?

10000000000000% agreed, I never liked him being made coach again, what exactly was the reasoning behind it? Did he show some great improvement as man manager? was he a tactical genius? was he going to bring some new philosophy to the England side? It really is beyond me as to why he is back.

Yes, BUT, Matt Prior ain't no KP!

Stokes, has he bowled well enough to keep his place?

KP must come back, it was Prior and Cook who set him up for the fall anyway

I'd give Stokes another game but Prior has to go.

My 3 main points as to why England lost the game:

1) Poor selection, I think many had doubts about Prior in recent months and now is the time for him to be dropped. Bring in young, aggressive cricketers who want to play and not just sit back and try to find form. Buttler needs to play the next game.

2) Broad has under performed and done so for a while now, before he could at least make up for his poor bowling form with some good innings at 7/8 but he looks pathetic with the bat. They say he is carrying an injury, fair enough, drop him for someone who is fit, say Jordan?

3) Poor, poor captaincy, allowing the game to drift far too often, we've seen this for months from Cook and we saw how it cost England the Sri Lanka series, it happened again. England were well into India's tale and the field settings became increasingly defensive and lackluster, Cook (much like Dhoni) was waiting for things to happen. I'm not a believer in dropping a captain mid-series and I reckon Cook should get another game but someone...namely the coach who needs to get off his arse, must get to Cook, tell him where he is going wrong.

If these changes aren't brought in and India can get a decent score, England will lose the second match.

 

[blockerdave]

Yes, BUT, Matt Prior ain't no KP!

Stokes, has he bowled well enough to keep his place?

I think Stokes was probably our best bowler, certainly in the first innings.

Ironically, i think he should be promoted in the order, too. I ascribe his current poor batting form to the fact he's been dropped to 8. He's been told youre a bowler who bats a bit, any runs are a bonus, go and bash it. This is a guy who made an outstanding hundred, batting at 6, above Prior just before Prior was dropped for his poor batting. Now he's shoved in at 8 below Prior. Just an example of the appalling thinking around this England team at the moment.

Cook should be removed as captain, but given until the end of the series to get his form back once removed from that. I think Broad and/or Anderson have to be dropped, they have been outbowled by first Sri Lanka, then by India, which is unacceptable, and with back to back tests on top of the Trent Bridge featherbed they would likely need a rest. Broad's knee is playing up and Jimmy hasn't been right since last summer.

Cook, Robson, Ballance, Root, Morgan (Capt), Ali, Stokes, Foster (Wk), Plunkett, Jordan, Finn would be my 11 for the next test.

 

[War]

Compton should come back, when your team is in such a bad place mentally you need the right character as much, more even, than you need the right skills.

He's a ballsy character who believes he belongs out there at the highest level, with so many of england's going into their shell the type of guy who is sitting there going "can't wait to get at them and chase this down." would invaluable in the dressing room.

I like Cook, I think he's under-rated sometimes because he's a guy that sees the new ball out more than makes big scores and that's a lot more important for an opener than people give it credit for, but even I'd have to say his place in the squad is getting near untenable right now.

funnily enough, I used to always wonder if his career, which at one point was shaping up to be record breaking would fall foul somewhere, he just isn't as good as the other guys who've managed that 10,000 runs aggregate.

Ye as i mentioned earlier in the thread, Cook's career can be summarized as this: http://www.planetcricket.org/forums/2819820-post680.html

Despite having the most hundreds by England, he is nowhere near the level of a Jack Hobbs, Herbert Sutclifffe, Boycott, Gooch, J Edrich in elite, historical great ENG openers.

 

[asprin]

Wow, England! I'm out of words. Atrocious shot selection, mindless batting there. Honestly, even at the stroke of lunch I thought it was easily England's game. As much as I'd like to think India did it, it was more like England handed it over to them on a silver plate.

Nevertheless, I'm happy to see India win. I hope this results in keenly contested games from hereon. Cmon England, get your act together and make this series exciting.

 

[blockerdave]

Oh yea, forgot about Ballance for a minute, yea can't drop him. I think Bell is just getting himself stupidly most of the time, I'm not seeing any major technical and mental flaws in his game like i do with Cook.

Morgan is only being suggested for captaincy because we acknowledge KP won't come back. That why is said "realistically" if all this crap wasn't going on KP would be in the team & would be captain.

I am a huge KP fan and I think he was treated disgracefully. That being said, i'm unconvinced about his captaincy. I would also like to see him playing in the county championship saying - sod T20, i want to play more tests and i am going to continue playing FC cricket. Aside from wanting to shove it in Giles Clarke's face, does he really have the appetitie to rebuild England?

I am wondering if Bell has it mentally, to be a senior player in a failing side. Last summer was really the only time he has been "the man", making the runs to hold the side together. Rather than being something he kicked on from, it seems conversely to have taken a lot out of him.

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Ye as i mentioned earlier in the thread, Cook's career can be summarized as this: http://www.planetcricket.org/forums/2819820-post680.html

Despite having the most hundreds by England, he is nowhere near the level of a Jack Hobbs, Herbert Sutclifffe, Boycott, Gooch, J Edrich in elite, historical great ENG openers.

Just read that bit you linked and agree strongly.

 

[richowebbo]

I think Stokes was probably our best bowler, certainly in the first innings.

Ironically, i think he should be promoted in the order, too. I ascribe his current poor batting form to the fact he's been dropped to 8. He's been told youre a bowler who bats a bit, any runs are a bonus, go and bash it. This is a guy who made an outstanding hundred, batting at 6, above Prior just before Prior was dropped for his poor batting. Now he's shoved in at 8 below Prior. Just an example of the appalling thinking around this England team at the moment.

Cook should be removed as captain, but given until the end of the series to get his form back once removed from that. I think Broad and/or Anderson have to be dropped, they have been outbowled by first Sri Lanka, then by India, which is unacceptable, and with back to back tests on top of the Trent Bridge featherbed they would likely need a rest. Broad's knee is playing up and Jimmy hasn't been right since last summer.

Cook, Robson, Ballance, Root, Morgan (Capt), Ali, Stokes, Foster (Wk), Plunkett, Jordan, Finn would be my 11 for the next test.

I also think Stokes at times was our best bowler, but that won't guarantee his place in the eyes of our selection panel. They are always keen to drop the younger players before the experienced ones for any reason they can find.

I don;t think Jimmy should be dropped. He's still our best bowler.

Hales, Robson, Ballance, Bell (C), Root, Butler, Ali, Stokes, Plunkett, Jordan, Anderson would be my 11. If Bell doesn;t perform, bring in Morgan as captain by all means.

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10000000000000% agreed, I never liked him being made coach again, what exactly was the reasoning behind it? Did he show some great improvement as man manager? was he a tactical genius? was he going to bring some new philosophy to the England side? It really is beyond me as to why he is back.



KP must come back, it was Prior and Cook who set him up for the fall anyway

I'd give Stokes another game but Prior has to go.

My 3 main points as to why England lost the game:

1) Poor selection, I think many had doubts about Prior in recent months and now is the time for him to be dropped. Bring in young, aggressive cricketers who want to play and not just sit back and try to find form. Buttler needs to play the next game.

2) Broad has under performed and done so for a while now, before he could at least make up for his poor bowling form with some good innings at 7/8 but he looks pathetic with the bat. They say he is carrying an injury, fair enough, drop him for someone who is fit, say Jordan?

3) Poor, poor captaincy, allowing the game to drift far too often, we've seen this for months from Cook and we saw how it cost England the Sri Lanka series, it happened again. England were well into India's tale and the field settings became increasingly defensive and lackluster, Cook (much like Dhoni) was waiting for things to happen. I'm not a believer in dropping a captain mid-series and I reckon Cook should get another game but someone...namely the coach who needs to get off his arse, must get to Cook, tell him where he is going wrong.

If these changes aren't brought in and India can get a decent score, England will lose the second match.

point 1) Yep. I'd open with Hales for this reason.

point 2) Yep.

point 3) Yep.

What i can;t understand is, this summer we have only been able to put together one good session, and then the next one we are awful. What is being said by Moores etc.?