India tour of Pakistan

bharat

Panel of Selectors
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Profile Flag
India
Sohaib is a useless bowler.He can only bowl fast.Sami is also useless.He is trying to copy Akthar exactly.
The only Pakistani bowler,whom I felt was good is Umar Gul.He bowled extreamly well.

Sohaib was not sucessful because he could not tamper the ball.
Former Pakistani bowler Abdul Quader indirectly said this.He said the the pak. bowlers were sucessful because they had tampered the ball.But now there are cameras zooming-in at all angles,which made it difficult for them.
 
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snoop_dizzle

Guest
I think that Rashid Latif needs to stop being so bitter over not being in the team (not sure wether hes retired.. so correct me if im wrong) first he acusses them of match fixing in the 4th ODI and now he goes telling everyone over a matter that should of just been delt with by Pakistan Cricket
 
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601731

Guest
latif comes out with these allegations only when he is out of the team.
 
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tosh1981

Guest
ss das should be given a chance to open...

agreed he had a bad tour of the windies, but he has a very compact technique...

he is defensive and a good foil to sehwag...

if yuvraj were to open with sehwag, we would have disastrous starts, or fantastic starts - more likely disastrous, because both are edgy batsmen who take chances...

das is somebody like chopra who does not get himself out - but he has some shots, unlike chopra, who only has a defense....

chappel made a good comment right at the start of the test series - before chopra even fell - that he does not have conviction in his shorts, and thats why he gets out in the 30's 40's so much...
because - at that score, the field is usually spread slightly, and he has trouble penetrating it, finding gaps and beating players when that happens...

das is a better batsman than chopra and he has hit form again since the windies tour - so he deserves another shot...
more than anything else - he is a natural opener - unfortunate that yuvraj may have to miss out - but this is better in the long run...
 

bharat

Panel of Selectors
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Profile Flag
India
Yes,during 1999 Das and Ramesh opening pair was good.
Sehwag can bat down the order but both Das and Ramesh are not Agressive.So Sehwag will have to open the innings surely.

There is a lot of trouble ahead for India.
Harbajan will be back.The current team has only one spinner.
So,it can be either Kumble or Harbajan.Pathan and Balaji have got their place fixed.When Zaheer returns it will be difficult for him to find a place.
John Wright's contract is also going to end at the end of this year. :(
 
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tosh1981

Guest
das and sehwag would be best...

lets see how harbhajan does in domestic games...

if he performs well, gie him a chance with the national team - if not - reward kumbles performance on this tour with some more games...

only get harbhajan in if he performs exceptional well at home...

everybody should get their place only on merit...

das has been doing well - give him a spot in the squad - if yuvraj doesnt work at opener, das gets the nod for a few games

khan performed horribly on this tour - so he needs to get some good performances in back home...

until khan and bhajji prove themselves, the bowlers should be balaji, pathan, nehra and kumble...


in tests, yuvrak should open, and if he doesnt performa s opener, give das a try in that position
 
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jeromedascorp

Guest
Yuvraj shudnt open in my opinion. And das was out cos he didnt perform!! I think if india can train Parthive well enuff then it will be great. He did a very good job in the opening slot. He did wat he was supposed to do. Plus he scored a 50. It will be hard him being a keeper. But lets not forget Nayan Mongia used to play opening. Keepers have done it before.
 
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zaf1986

Guest
Shoaib is an idiot I agree with you all as is Latif.

But he has the best strike rate for a current bowler (43) and a pretty good average (22)
 
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tosh1981

Guest
zaf, im an indian in the US...

saw the whole series here along with a bunch of pakistanis...
good friends, some of them...

but i must say, very fickle fans - they never watch when their team is losing - and criticise incessantly after a loss...

only the indians stayed up and supported their team even through the 2nd test, while there were no pakistanis watching the 1st and 3rd test after the 1st day...


anyways - wanted to ask u - since we're talking about openers...

what do u think of taufeeq umar??
i saw him at the world cup, and thought he had horrible technique - he moved around too much, and never looked a steady player...

they kept hoping he would coming in to replace afridi for the ODI series, and frankly i didnt care about either of them, cos both of them are literally bonus wickets for india... afridi had his one good game, and is not gonna play well again for about 15 matches...
imran farhat looks a good batsmen, but these guys here (mostly from karachi), really have a high opinion of taufeeq...

they said he would do very well in the tests, even after pathan exposed his flaws by bowling him around his legs in the final ODI...

i cant believe the guy can play well in tests, as u need both sound technique and temperament to open in tests... and imo - he has neither...
his scores in the series proved it - with not even a single 50 in 6 innings...

i think ur lineup should be....

ODI

farhat
hameed
yohanna
inzy
younis khan
razzaq
moin
saqlain
sami
shoaib
shabbir

Tests

farhat
nazir
hameed
inzy
yohanna
kamal
akmal
sami
shoaib
kaneria
gul


imo, you guys lack one quality batsman in both tests and ODI's...
 
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zaf1986

Guest
Originally posted by tosh1981@Apr 20 2004, 09:42 AM
zaf, im an indian in the US...

saw the whole series here along with a bunch of pakistanis...
good friends, some of them...

but i must say, very fickle fans - they never watch when their team is losing - and criticise incessantly after a loss...

only the indians stayed up and supported their team even through the 2nd test, while there were no pakistanis watching the 1st and 3rd test after the 1st day...


anyways - wanted to ask u - since we're talking about openers...

what do u think of taufeeq umar??
i saw him at the world cup, and thought he had horrible technique - he moved around too much, and never looked a steady player...

they kept hoping he would coming in to replace afridi for the ODI series, and frankly i didnt care about either of them, cos both of them are literally bonus wickets for india... afridi had his one good game, and is not gonna play well again for about 15 matches...
imran farhat looks a good batsmen, but these guys here (mostly from karachi), really have a high opinion of taufeeq...

they said he would do very well in the tests, even after pathan exposed his flaws by bowling him around his legs in the final ODI...

i cant believe the guy can play well in tests, as u need both sound technique and temperament to open in tests... and imo - he has neither...
his scores in the series proved it - with not even a single 50 in 6 innings...

i think ur lineup should be....

ODI

farhat
hameed
yohanna
inzy
younis khan
razzaq
moin
saqlain
sami
shoaib
shabbir

Tests

farhat
nazir
hameed
inzy
yohanna
kamal
akmal
sami
shoaib
kaneria
gul


imo, you guys lack one quality batsman in both tests and ODI's...
You're entitled to your opinion on Taufeeq, but he has proven himself against the very best, he made 88 at Sharjah in a Test against McGrath and co, and then made 135 in SA against Pollock and co. I think he is a very good player based on these performances.

I think it was the biggest mistake to make Afridi an opener, because he isn't one. He should be down the order at 7 or 8.

Imran Nazir, whom I rate very highly too, maybe considered ahead of Taufeeq if he doesn't get his form back.

Younis Khan is useless, his time is up, he should be out. I'd much rather Misbah-ul-Haq or Faisal Iqbal to him.

How can you include saqlain with a sane mind? Did you not see him bowl in the 1st test? His days are numbered, and probably at Surrey now not Pakistan. Shoaib Malik or Mohammad Hafeez instead, both are handy with the bat too.

Shabbir in the Tests only (he averages like 45 in ODIs)

I've recently been very impressed by Gul, and might say him for both forms of the game, instead of Shabbir.

I'm slightly conufused as to why you have Moin in the ODIs but Akmal in the Tests, I would have it the other way round. In any case, Moin is 33 now, so he's probably come to the end of his career anyway.

I think 6 specialist batsmen is fine, every team can't have a batting lineup like India, not even Aus.
 
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tosh1981

Guest
I think 6 specialist batsmen is fine, every team can't have a batting lineup like India, not even Aus.

first of all - i think australia has a better batting lineup than india in both forms of the game...


anyways
saqlain bowled for 1 innings of a test after a long layoff, against a guy who ultimately made 309, and another who had racked up almost 500 runs without being dismissed in the year...

surely u cant dismiss him based on that...
his variety and guile in ODI's was sorely missed - shoaib mailk is as good as sehwag as a bowler, and only made runs in a losing cause...

main reason i included moin in odis and kamran in tests is because in the difference in batting and wicket keeping
kamran is younger, more agile - therefor he will be a better keeper in tests...

since u guys are lacking one quality batsman in odis, i think what moin and razzaq can provide with the bat is very important...

i seriousl dont know how taufeeq made those runs against aus and sa... every time ive see him bat, he looks completely ill at ease - he moves around like most west indian batsmen, and cant strike the ball nearly as cleanly...

havent seen imran nazir in a while now - but after 6 consecutive failures in the tests, u have to give a quality guy like imran a try...

havent seen faisal, hafeez or misbah ulhaq play...
dunno if theyll be good for the ODI game...

younis khan cant hit, but he can play the role that kaif plays for india now - and with big hitters like razzaq inzy and moin around him - he could still be useful in the ODIs...


as for shabbir - its still early in his career - how can u write him off because of his current average in the odis.. isnt samis average almost 50 in tests?? dont tell me u dont want him playing ur tests either???

i feel imran farhat is ur best young prospect (hameed has only one good shot, imo and he is already 26 or older)...
the biggest mistake u guys made was dropping farhat and bringing in afridi after the first odi...
 
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zaf1986

Guest
first of all - i think australia has a better batting lineup than india in both forms of the game...

I disagree, Aus have a better allround team, but India undoubtedly has the strongest batting lineup int the world - come on - when 5 of your top 6 average over 50 - not even Aus have that.


anyways
saqlain bowled for 1 innings of a test after a long layoff, against a guy who ultimately made 309, and another who had racked up almost 500 runs without being dismissed in the year...

surely u cant dismiss him based on that...
his variety and guile in ODI's was sorely missed - shoaib mailk is as good as sehwag as a bowler, and only made runs in a losing cause...

yeah, I agree, but recently Saqlain in the games he played (e.g. vs SA b4 the WC 2003, he conceded 200 runs also, (Smith and Gibbs put on the first of their 300 run partnerships) but for a world class bowler you expect better. Besides Malik is younger and can develop. Malik is a good hitter and lost his form in the ODI series, but in NZ he bowled v. well on pitches that effectively helped pace bowlers.


main reason i included moin in odis and kamran in tests is because in the difference in batting and wicket keeping
kamran is younger, more agile - therefor he will be a better keeper in tests...

since u guys are lacking one quality batsman in odis, i think what moin and razzaq can provide with the bat is very important...

yeah, I guess that makes sense, Razzaq in the ODIs not in the Tests I think.

i seriousl dont know how taufeeq made those runs against aus and sa... every time ive see him bat, he looks completely ill at ease - he moves around like most west indian batsmen, and cant strike the ball nearly as cleanly...

I mean yeah, he probably hasn't been at his best recently, but the record is there for everyone to see. In SA, where he made 135, the team were bowled out for 200 odd, which shows it was a pitch suiting pace bowlers, (Pollock took 5 i think) and yet he made a hundred.

havent seen imran nazir in a while now - but after 6 consecutive failures in the tests, u have to give a quality guy like imran a try...

You know, I can't stand Pakistani selectors, they should get someone half decent like Zaheer Abbas/Imran Khan etc quality players and tacticians rather than idiots like Aamir Sohail and deadbrains like Bari.

havent seen faisal, hafeez or misbah ulhaq play...
dunno if theyll be good for the ODI game...

Hafeez played as an opener allrounder, which was disastrous because he was a makeshift opener, and not a specialist one. He bowls offbreaks, and can bat pretty well, just not as an opener. He's 24, so he's got his career ahead of his. Misbah average 50 in first class, but has only played a couple of ODIs / Tests, Faisal Iqbal will be criticised every time he is picked because he's Miandad's nephew.

younis khan cant hit, but he can play the role that kaif plays for india now - and with big hitters like razzaq inzy and moin around him - he could still be useful in the ODIs...
I still believe Misbah, Faisal or Hafeez instead of Younis Khan who keeps getting bowled by spinners which is a concern for a specialist experienced batsman, and the way he ran out Inzamam in the 5th ODI against SA was totally infuriating, I mean I was angry at Hameed running out Inzi at Multan, considering Hameed is still a new kid on the block, but Younis Khan was the second most experienced in the side after Inzi, knows Inzi better than anyone in the side, and yet calls him for a suicidial single, knowing its Inzi at the other end, with a hamstring injury.

as for shabbir - its still early in his career - how can u write him off because of his current average in the odis.. isnt samis average almost 50 in tests?? dont tell me u dont want him playing ur tests either???
I think Gul is better bowler for the ODIs, Shabbir for the TEsts.

i feel imran farhat is ur best young prospect (hameed has only one good shot, imo and he is already 26 or older)...
the biggest mistake u guys made was dropping farhat and bringing in afridi after the first odi
...

Farhat is good, and the opening partnerships with Taufeeq in the Tests, and Hameed in the ODIs is really working well. Hameed still a new kid on the block, needs to work on tightening his game, he chases everything wide outside offstump even if it isn't short. Hameed is 25.
 
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tosh1981

Guest
good to see that we agree on a lot of things about pakistan...

i really like ur test lineup - they can really become a powerful force in test cricket -

i think u had won series vs SA and NZ before going into the IND series... which is pretty good...



anyways - heres indias batting lineup...

india

sehwag
yuvraj
dravid
sachin
ganguly
vvs
parthiv


australia

langer
hayden
ponting
martyn
lehmann
katich
gilchrist

of these, langer and martyn are the only ones who average below 50 in tests...
and we all know that those really arent reflective of their stats...
for us - sehwag has done well, but his average was hugely bolstered by his 309...
yuvraj is about as raw as katich - but katich has shown ability to make runs under pressure and also has a much better technique...

if i had to combine the lineups i would take...

hayden
langer
dravid
sachin
ponting
vvs
gilchrist


this may only seem like 4v3... in the top 7...
however, when u compare man to man, the gap is much wider...

hayden is far ahead of sehwag
if yuvraj finishes with a record like langers as an opener, i would be very surprised indeed
dravid is probably the best test batsman in the world today... but ponting is in incredible form - and is just going to improve - there isnt much to choose between them, imo...
sachin is definitely a better choice than martyn
ganguly is a real problem for us in terms of our batting - both lehmann and martyn are better batsmen than him
vvs and katich - no matter how well vvs has done lately, and how good he looks - this guy katich ranks very high in my books...
ive been following him in domestic cricket as well, and its only because of mark and steve waugh that he didnt get a chance 3-4 years ago...
gilchrist vs patel - patel is great - he shows guts and has made runs against both aussies and pakistan - away - thats incredible - but u simply cant get a better wicket keeper batsman than gilchrist today - and ud have to go a long way back in time to find one that is as good as him...

out of the 7 positions...
australia is better in four slots...
the only contest we really win is sachin vs martyn...
vvs/katich and dravid/ponting is a tie, imo...
even if one were to argue that dravid is better than ponting and vvs better than katich, that makes it 4-3 for the aussies..., but the advantage that australia has over india in the four slots that they win is much larger than the advantage we get in our wins...

in other words...

hayden is MUCH better than sehwag
langer is better than yuvraj
dravid is slightly better than ponting
sachin is better than martyn
martyn/lehmann FAR better than ganguly
vvs slightly better than katich
gilchrist FAR better than parthiv...


which is why, if i had to choose one of the two batting lineups, id still take australias over ours...

we may have some brilliant individual batsmen, but when u take the team efforts together - australia are much more stable
(of course they have the advantage of never having to play against the best bowling lineup in the world - which is their own, of course)
 
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nikhilverma

Guest
Well have you guys started a tradition of posting lengthy posts .
I had a heart attack :lol:
 
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zaf1986

Guest
we may have some brilliant individual batsmen, but when u take the team efforts together - australia are much more stable

I think thats what I said, they are better unit, but India's 5 of top 6:

Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Laxman
Ganguly

are a strong lineup, I rate VVS over Katich for the simple reason that Laxman is a specialist batsman, and Katich, a good player no doubt, is an allrounder. He doesn't really fit the bill.

Out of the seven,

I would go with:

Hayden
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Lehmann
Laxman
Gilchrist.....
 

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