Possible solution for edges

[Ash1973]

Happy days!

 

[grkrama]

I disagree, bowl short of a good length mixed with a few bouncers, then every 15 balls of so bowl a fullen. 3 times out of 4 the batsman will be caught out by this, an inswinging yorker bowled wide from the crease is deadly. You can do the opposite, good and full with a bouncer as the surprise ball. It shows that the AI can be set up.

Again what you say about bowling to a plan is wrong, I have several different tactics and plans which I use to reasonable effect. The majority of my bowling is on a good length either angling or swinging the ball away from the right hander forcing the AI to hit to the offside. My field will only have 2 maybe 3 on the legside. Maybe this is why I get more edges than most.

Doesnt work i tried bodyline theory against russia with indian team with ishant nd yadav getting good bounce and speed, i just pushed all the fielders back except for a couple at slips.[this was at legend difficulty].

the russian batsman hit the very first ball for six fair enough but then however well i mixed the deliveries mostly couple of bouncers a few slower short balls occasional surprise goodlength or full length balls, the batsman just continued to pummel for it at 60 in 15 overs, then they decided they have over lived their stay and lobbed a head high boucer straight to long on, then the very next delivery the other batsman also did the same lofting a bouncer straight down to long off.

then afer pacifying me with a couple of wickets the run cycle continued, the key problem is you never feel like you earned a wicket in FC games, you have players dilscooping full length spin deliveries to WK for wickets after toiling for 20-30 overs, its like the game pitying you/

I personally dont expect AI to respond with match situation etc, but simple stuff like how it gets out, being in character with batsman type etc would go a long way. Also there should be no getaway shots for AI like the latecut, there are times when you feel you have got the AI in control by bowling good deliveries then out of nowhere the AI will pull a late cut to 157kph inswingng yorker or a nice loopy offbreak that goes for six. how do batsman latecut spin for six?

can't say i didn't warn you...

Still the best cricket game ever nothing can come close to it by miles, every game has its shortcomings, so you still playing it i guess?

 

[cooks1st100]

Doesnt work i tried bodyline theory

i mixed the deliveries mostly couple of bouncers a few slower short balls occasional surprise goodlength or full length balls,

Your idea of bodyline theory is way of the mark, I mean slow bouncers for a start. A wanky ball developed for a wanky format of cricket! . I don't bowl bodyline I bowl a short ball plan. out of 6 balls, 4 will be on a good length but short( late in the green zone) with only 2 bouncers, one wide of off and one just over offstump, every 2nd over i will bowl one bouncer with extra pace, the only time I use the extra pace button. As I have already mentioned every 15 balls of so I will bowl a yorker. I constantly change my angle of delivery. This doesn't work every single time and I wouldn't want it to but it gets me pretty good results. I generally use it as a partnership breaker with spin bowled at the other end. I find that right arm around to a righthanded batsman is probably most successful for me.

Look I don't know what I'm doing that's so different to everyone else but I've just started a test on legend for the first time. My first 10 overs went for almost 60 runs but I reigned it in and after 2 sessions it is now 187-3 (52 overs). I had 2 edges one which was caught at 2nd slip, the other didnt carry, and I managed 2 bowleds including possibly the best wicket I've ever taken. Good length full (4 metres), swinging away slightly which seamed back in and took out the offstump. Proper magic moment!!

Before this match I reduced running speed and acceleration for a few of the opposition and I had one moment where the batsman would have been run out coming back for 2 had my fielder been able to throw it to the wicket keeper and not the fella backing up.

 

[blockerdave]

I disagree, bowl short of a good length mixed with a few bouncers, then every 15 balls of so bowl a fullen. 3 times out of 4 the batsman will be caught out by this, an inswinging yorker bowled wide from the crease is deadly. You can do the opposite, good and full with a bouncer as the surprise ball. It shows that the AI can be set up.

Lots of confirmation bias there. I don't know if @ChinamanSpin can still be relied upon to dig out any quote, or if the Big Ant Boys are around to confirm, but I am 99.94% @Ross has said that the AI doesn't respond to what happened before, each ball is independent. it's admirable because we don't want the 3 bouncers + 1 yorker = out shenanigans of old games, but IMO they've thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

Again what you say about bowling to a plan is wrong, I have several different tactics and plans which I use to reasonable effect. The majority of my bowling is on a good length either angling or swinging the ball away from the right hander forcing the AI to hit to the offside. My field will only have 2 maybe 3 on the legside. Maybe this is why I get more edges than most.
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I agree to a point, Pitch conditions make a difference, not massive but it's there. I definitely noticed a fair difference between the first day and the third day bowling on a greentop. First day there was natural seam, third day, far less so.

The "number" of edges, is actually something of a red herring. We don't need more edges, we need a realistic connection between "situation" and outcome. At present there is no appreciable difference in how likely you are to get an edge whether you're bowling with a 5-helmet fast bowler on a green top getting plenty of movement, or a 2-helmet fast bowler on a flat pitch getting nothing: that is not right. (by situation i mean the pitch/ball conditions, batsman/bowler skill, amount of movement etc.)

you can bowl a brilliant line on/just-outside off stump, getting good movement, and you're much much more likely to get a wicket from the batsman trying to cut the one that's a bit straight and being LBW, or chipping it to mid-on, than an edge to slip.

i have got no problem whatsoever bowling over after over for no reward, that's a big part of test cricket. but i do have a problem with it feeling the same if i'm bowling with WI All Time vs Kenya on a green top, or bowling with Kenya vs WI All Time on a flat pitch. And I have a problem with the wickets you do get rarely having any real connection to how you've bowled, or how the batsman has batted hitherto.

 

[blockerdave]

This video illustrates the issue perfectly. Look at the line bowled in this over and the hawkeye at the end. How does the wicket come? He gets his knee in the way trying to cut a ball pitching in line with the stumps and out LBW.

 

[ChinamanSpin]

Lots of confirmation bias there. I don't know if @ChinamanSpin can still be relied upon to dig out any quote, or if the Big Ant Boys are around to confirm, but I am 99.94% @Ross has said that the AI doesn't respond to what happened before, each ball is independent. it's admirable because we don't want the 3 bouncers + 1 yorker = out shenanigans of old games, but IMO they've thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

You called? I'm a little rusty, but I got this.

Each ball is on it's merit, there is no "not this time son" involved

This is about batting against the AI, and suddenly being got out. Suggests that each ball is unique perhaps?

(Congrats on the new arrival by the way )

 

[blockerdave]

You called? I'm a little rusty, but I got this.

Not quite the one I as after, I thought there should be one regarding how the AI batsman doesn't care what went before...

(Congrats on the new arrival by the way )

Thank you!

 

[cooks1st100]

This video illustrates the issue perfectly.

Actually I think this is a pretty poor example man. I'd interpret it as this wicket came about because the 5 balls previously were outside off and had the next ball been so the cut shot would have connected. As it was, it pitched more towards leg and stayed low and that's why you got the LBW. Had it been a hard wicket it would have gone over the stumps at that length.

A better example would be the late cut that gets played to a yorker. A totally unrealistic and infuriating shot but the more I've bowled the less I've seen it played. Mainly off no-balls.

I can't really comment on the difference between good teams and poorer ones as the only teams I have been fiddling around with and playing against have been Aus, South Africa and England. As I have said on another thread I have set the batting attributes to reflect their first class average. maybe I'll have a go with against a lesser team with my settings.

I still think edges do need an increase but just to reflect the new ball and make taking the second one mean something. The edges I do get are fantastic and a quite varied although I have never seen a top edge from a pull shot.

The pitch does make a slight difference I have already proven this in regards to green pitches and edges, also the ball deviates if the pitch is cracked and you hit them. I have taken wickets as a result of this.


Congrats also fella.

 

[T.J.Hooker]

Actually I think this is a pretty poor example man. I'd interpret it as this wicket came about because the 5 balls previously were outside off and had the next ball been so the cut shot would have connected. As it was, it pitched more towards leg and stayed low and that's why you got the LBW. Had it been a hard wicket it would have gone over the stumps at that length.

None of the deliveries were wide enough to play a conventional cut shot. It's an absolutely nonsensical shot choice for an opening batsman at virtually any stage of a test match, but especially so right at the top of the innings.

 

[blockerdave]

Actually I think this is a pretty poor example man. I'd interpret it as this wicket came about because the 5 balls previously were outside off and had the next ball been so the cut shot would have connected. As it was, it pitched more towards leg and stayed low and that's why you got the LBW. Had it been a hard wicket it would have gone over the stumps at that length.

Per @T.J.Hooker above I think it's a good example - there were no balls there to cut and the ball he tried to cut was the straightest/furthest to leg of the lot. Had he been LBW playing across the line you could say he'd got sick of the tight off-side line then tried to over-compensate on the straightest one and misplayed (although actually you couldn't, because the AI doesn't play like that), but instead he played an utterly nonsensical shot, and I got a lot of pleasure at the over - really good line and grouping, one of the best I've ever bowled - but the wicket didn't really give me the pleasure I'd have liked.

Congrats also fella.

Thanks!

 

[IceAgeComing]

I refuse to accept the "YOU CAN BOWL TO PLANS!!!!" thing as long as the AI can reliably late cut full, straight balls to third man when you don't have someone there...

e: there are more edges, but still having more than at most one slip seems pointless, and having a mid on/off are still pretty mandatory since they stop most straight stuff and get a load of catches - although it is better than it was since the AI seems a lot more likely to hit straight shots between those positions and the stumps...

 

[T.J.Hooker]

Had he been LBW playing across the line you could say he'd got sick of the tight off-side line then tried to over-compensate on the straightest one and misplayed

For an lbw there, I'd want to feel that holding a tight line just outside off had drawn the batsman into premeditating a forward press, and a little line adjustment or movement back in catches his mistake. That's usually how it feels for me. You get the batsman into a nice groove where you want him in the crease, and then bowl the variation.

For nicks behind, I want to feel like the game understands that the distance between pitching and hitting the bat is a major vector of difficulty. You're always looking for that spot far enough away from the batsman that you can get 3 inches of line deviation from pitch to bat, but without bowling short enough to give him time to see the movement and adjust.

If the game just rewarded finding a bit of movement from the right length and punished long hops and half volleys it'd be such a major step forward.

 

[ChinamanSpin]

I refuse to accept the "YOU CAN BOWL TO PLANS!!!!" thing as long as the AI can reliably late cut full, straight balls to third man when you don't have someone there...

That's rubbish. My plan of "bowl straight until they miss it" works perfectly... I've just taken to always having a third man to pretend it doesn't exist. Usually helped by knowing you can't hit behind extra cover, or wide of mid on, on the front foot.

I get a few edges, but they don't seem to be earnt. When I try to "set the batsman up" with outswingers and an inswinger takes an outside edge there isn't much satisfaction.

 

[Valaskjalf]

Well BigAnt has been super quiet which could mean one of 2 things....they've done what they set out to do and we will wait for the next patch until the cows come home, or they're super busy fixing up all these issues and Patch 3 is imminent!...im hoping for the 2nd one :P

 

[blockerdave]

Well BigAnt has been super quiet which could mean one of 2 things....they've done what they set out to do and we will wait for the next patch until the cows come home, or they're super busy fixing up all these issues and Patch 3 is imminent!...im hoping for the 2nd one :P

They've said very clearly that they're quiet on DBC and less active for now as they have other announcements coming up. As much as we'd all like it to be so they have other games to make and support, likely more profitable than DBC!

I hope there are significant AI improvements they can make in the rest of the DBC14 support cycle, although I think some things may be so fundamental to the systems in place it's unrealistic to expect an overhaul by a patch.

If they're able to beef up the effect of ball and pitch conditions (and wear of both) and get some link between movement and likelihood of a wicket that would be a big step forward; not to mention of course they must sort out the AI field sets.