South African Cricketers Playing Overseas

Valaskjalf

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Yeah I have a huge problem with this situation with all these countries, especially England, profiting from our talent. Imagine England didnt have Pietersen or Strauss, they would be a mere shadow of the team they are now and had Trott not scored a century on his debut in the Ashes who knows?

About the reasons for this "lack of recognition" Im not sure. Some say its the quota system, the intrigue of earning big pounds in the UK...who knows. All I know is that Pietersen's whole reason for going to the UK had nothing to do with Cricket SA's inability to spot his talent - he left the country playing for Natal B so I doubt he has a foot to stand on. Noone would have selected him when he left so yea...

I dont think the quota system plays such a big role anymore...Im not sure but the players who do get into the team based on their skin colour are generally also the best guys for the job....look at Duminy, Amla, Parnell (yes he is not white), Tsotsobe as the ones who came into the squad relatively recently: They're all quality players and deserve their places in the side.

I think money talks though....SA domestic players are paid meagerly in comparison to county players for example and if you dont make the cut for the national side then you cant really make a living playing domestically here in SA. Perhaps its because SA has a very competitive domestic arrangement with a lot of talent, we probably have more talent than England in their domestic cricket.

I was a bit peeved when Trott qualified though, he was always a very good player who I thought would make it into the side - he just left a little early I think. I remember I used to play against him in high-school, our schools were in the same league and competitions and he was seriously good back then already and always looked promising. Very sad that he had to leave, eventhough I still think he would struggle to get into our test side. Our middle order is pretty strong and he would probably have to compete against Ashwell Prince who is a star player. Perhaps the problem lies with England, not South Africa....due to the media-hype and the sort of bi-polar nature of the cricketing critics in the UK (the one day you're awarded an MBE for no apparent reason and a week later youre seen as the worst cricketer in the world) - players get chopped and changed so much in the England side that anyone is likely to get a chance.

I think the SA team is more settled and we have a different philosophy to cricket than England. Over here we put a lot of stress on team unity and sticking with players and trying to create a tight bunch of players, whereas whenever a player fails with the bat in England the verdict is out and "off with his head! lets look at bringing in someone completely new". That is unlikely to happen in the SA team and when players go through a slump we dont call for their heads...so even if a player is doing exceptionally well in our domestic league, we rarely want to unsettle a team and bring in a new face unless its absolutely necessary.
 
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King Pietersen

ICC Board Member
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Yeah I have a huge problem with this situation with all these countries, especially England, profiting from our talent. Imagine England didnt have Pietersen or Strauss, they would be a mere shadow of the team they are now and had Trott not scored a century on his debut in the Ashes who knows?

About the reasons for this "lack of recognition" Im not sure. Some say its the quota system, the intrigue of earning big pounds in the UK...who knows. All I know is that Pietersen's whole reason for going to the UK had nothing to do with Cricket SA's inability to spot his talent - he left the country playing for Natal B so I doubt he has a foot to stand on. Noone would have selected him when he left so yea...

It was down to Natal's inability to spot his talent though, and the reason he was in the Natal B side was because of the quota system. He was a better off-spinning all-rounder than the guy who was put in the side to fill the required quota. He should have been selected, due to his immense talent, and if that talent wasn't spotted, and Pietersen was shoved aside because of the quota system, then good on him for leaving and making the most of his talent elsewhere.

You need to stop mentioning Strauss in this as well. He left South Africa when he was six (iirc), and has English blood in him. He is not in anywhere near the same boat as a Pietersen or a Trott. Nor's Prior.
 

Skater

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Not forgetting both Pietersen and Trott have English parentage.
 

Valaskjalf

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Not forgetting both Pietersen and Trott have English parentage.


Fair point, didnt realize Trott's parents were both English. Still felt that he had a chance if only he stayed around a bit longer. Same with Pietersen...Im sure he would have been recognised before too long - too late now. Would have been awesome to have him in the side though...Smith-Gibbs-Pietersen-Kallis-De Villiers-Duminy....pretty crazy.
 

vishwa

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They gave preference to Ghulam Bodi over Kevin Pietersen... speaks volumes of their system.

More - Click here
 
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mdoggie

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Nothing to do with patience, it's down to his coaches at Natal not seeing his obvious natural batting ability, and playing him as a frontline bowler. He didn't average in the 10's either, for Natal he averaged 26 with the bat, and batted mainly at number 10. He also averaged 36 with the ball, which for a young off-spinner in South African conditions really isn't bad.

He was also within his rights to blame the quota system. He'd performed decently for Natal, and was replaced by a player worse than him on racial reasons. He tried to sort things out with Natal, but they weren't interested, so KP was within his rights to tell Natal to shove it and move to England.

Feel free to slag him off for leaving the country and not trying to earn his place back if you like, but at least do your research first. Just guessing at statistics which are fairly wide of the mark just makes you look abit silly, because Pietersen was far from a 'completely useless' cricketer for Natal.

I don't no where I read the stats I mentioned so if they are incorrect, my mistake.

But you seem to make out like averaging 26 is impressive, which sorry to tell you but it isn't. Plenty of players were able to make it in the Natal side even if they were white. Players far worse than Pieterson have made it. Players take time mature and maybe Pieterson needed it because it wouldn't be hard for a coach to drop him with stats like he had. 36 with the ball is average at best and certainly a player that is dropable.

At 19, very few players actually play top flight domestic cricket, most play for their B teams and the few that do, are either increadibly talented (Lie Wayne Parnell) or in weaker teams (Jonathon Vandlier). He was neither at that time and stats show.

EVeryone in this country blames quotas, Bee for their problems. Its far easier than working harder. There were plenty of the white people in the team and if he showed his ability for Natal B like every other player has to do, he may have returned but he decided to move and try his luck in England. Plenty of Players do that, as you can see with the influx of players in New Zealand but Pieterson is unique in being the only player who is hell bent on slagging everything about the cricketing structure of this country.

No one said he had to stay in South Africa, that's what he decided and no one really cared. People only hated his because of the way he went about it when he came back to South Africa.
 

Biggy

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Born in South Africa, but that does not make him South African. His father is English so he has every right to play for us.

So being born in South Africa, having a South African Mother, and living there for 11 years doesn't make him South African? What does then? :sarcasm
 

Skater

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So being born in South Africa, having a South African Mother, and living there for 11 years doesn't make him South African? What does then? :sarcasm
He can play for England because of his English father. It doesn't get simpler than that.
 

King Pietersen

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I don't no where I read the stats I mentioned so if they are incorrect, my mistake.

But you seem to make out like averaging 26 is impressive, which sorry to tell you but it isn't. Plenty of players were able to make it in the Natal side even if they were white. Players far worse than Pieterson have made it. Players take time mature and maybe Pieterson needed it because it wouldn't be hard for a coach to drop him with stats like he had. 36 with the ball is average at best and certainly a player that is dropable.

Averaging 26 whilst batting mainly at 10 is fairly impressive, as is scoring 2 fifties against a touring England side + taking 5 wickets. I don't see why Natal dropped him, other than for the quota reasons that Pietersen has stated. He performed well for a young guy, and averaging 36 with the ball, as a young off-spinner in South Africa is very respectable. Not exceptional, but not droppable, especially when you consider his batting ablity.

EVeryone in this country blames quotas, Bee for their problems. Its far easier than working harder. There were plenty of the white people in the team and if he showed his ability for Natal B like every other player has to do, he may have returned but he decided to move and try his luck in England. Plenty of Players do that, as you can see with the influx of players in New Zealand but Pieterson is unique in being the only player who is hell bent on slagging everything about the cricketing structure of this country.

You think it's harder to stay in South Africa, stay with his family and work his way back into the side there, than move to a country half way across the world, where he knows no-one, only has contacts with a small club side, working a bar job whilst playing for Cannock CC trying to get spotted by a County? I'd say the direction KP took was far more difficult an option.

Sure there were white players in the side, but that's not the point. Pietersen was replaced in the Natal side, by a guy who wasn't as good as him, so that Natal could fill the quota. Then to return to the stats. Bodi (the guy Pietersen was replaced by) at the time was averaging 18.17 with the bat, and 47.58 with the ball. Definitely picked on merit then....

Pietersen's not guessing at being replaced because of the quota system either, he was given that reason by Natal coach of the time, Phil Russell. Which is ludicrous reasoning for dropping a player, especially one as talented as Pietersen. I'd say, and Pietersen would probably agree, that if Graham Ford had stayed at Natal, and not been replaced by Russell, that he would have stayed in South Africa.
 
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vishwa

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I don't no where I read the stats I mentioned so if they are incorrect, my mistake.

But you seem to make out like averaging 26 is impressive, which sorry to tell you but it isn't. Plenty of players were .....

I agree with you. I believe unlike the rest of us, since you are from South Africa, you are in the best position to put forward a view on the quota system forward. I respect your opinion and please be informed, there are very few people who will come out and say what you have said as honestly as you did. Cheers to that :)

I deem it fit for KP to hold an opinion and I presume he is truly justified in expressing his opinions. South Africa and England are democratic countries and everyone has the right to opinion. Frankly, I don't like it when he's booed every single time he steps foot on a ground in South Africa. You can't crucify someone for expressing his honest opinion on something which was blatantly wrong on the Natal management's part. To select Ghulam Bodi over Kevin Pietersen cannot be justified in any way. Worse, if it is because of a racial policy, it becomes all the more regrettable. And this just keeps on happening in South Africa. They have lost a plethora of players already and the adoption of a highhanded approach is costing them a lot of talented blokes, who are looking for and do end up finding greener pastures in England et al.

Kevin Pietersen
Jonathan Trott
Martin van Jaarsveld
Andre Nel

The list goes on. Andre Nel was infact shockingly dropped from a series just because South Africa had a color policy to pick players on the basis of and it was disgusting to see colour superseding talent and merit during selection.

Ditto with Kevin Pietersen. Can anyone blame these men for being angry? I don't think so.

You think it's harder to stay in South Africa, stay with his family and work his way back into the side there, than move to a country half way across the world, where he knows no-one, only has contacts with a small club side, working a bar job whilst playing for Cannock CC trying to get spotted by a County? I'd say the direction KP took was far more difficult an option.... that he would have stayed in South Africa.

Agreed. It is eventually South Africa's loss and England's gain. I'm sure England aren't complaining and South Africa isn't too on the surface. But deep inside, the individuals responsible for this mess know they have screwed up big time.
 
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LegBreakGoogly

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Not one of you international can make comments about another country because you have no idea :mad:
 

Kev

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So being born in South Africa, having a South African Mother, and living there for 11 years doesn't make him South African? What does then? :sarcasm
Look at it the other way around, he's 27 and came to England when he was 11. He went to school in Brighton and has spent more of his life in England than in South Africa.

I've gotta be honest, if I had moved to another country when I was 11 and one of my parents came from that country I'd feel pretty attached to that country by now.
 

irottev

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^ Agree, England is Priors home and therefore it's fair enough that he plays for England. It's players like Morgan who I have a problem with who play for Ireland one month and England the next month. You can't have 2 homes. I personally think it's being a dirty traitor and being unloyal to your country.

How are sides like Ireland,etc meant to improve if international teams keep taking their decent players away?
 

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