IPL Who Will win It.?

[AbhishekS]

won the final for his team and the world cup as well. He deserves all the credit he is getting, in my opinion.

If just one knock should credit a player the entire world cup success, then Gambhir deserves more credit than Dhoni.

 

[Varun]

I agree with Aditya on that somewhat, he scored under pressure - a captain's innings - and the fact that batting/bowling contribution has less to do with the captaincy than it is actually perceived. (Notice that I said 'less'.) Stephen Fleming, a great captain, with an ODI average of 32 and a S/R of 71 perfectly fits the description. Of course, he accrued over 8000 runs over his ODI career.

I'll say that yet again, though, he's overrated. BY THE PEOPLE. He hasn't done any wrong himself, and hasn't snatched credit wantonly.

 

[AkshayS]

Making 93 in the world cup final and being a match winner in a world cup final, still you don't want to ignore his failures?

WTF, why should I ignore his failures when he did nothing in the whole world cup and in the final promoted himself up the order ahead of an inform batsman and spanked his favourite opposition. Doesn't really makes sense to me to ignore all his world cup failure because of just one performance.

He knew that if he fails, the whole media and Indian fans will always criticize him by saying "that he failed throughout the world cup with the bat". It's just a matter of one day, doesn't matter whether you lost a match or not before the final in the world cup, if you lost in the final, it's over. Sachin OUT, Sehwag OUT, Kohli OUT and then comes in the Indian captain, out of form and desperate to make some runs and he showed immense concentration and patience and won the final for his team and the world cup as well.

Well when did I say that he was bad during the innings, I'm just not talking about how he placed his innings, I'm talking about his performances. You're just changing the topic.

He deserves all the credit he is getting, in my opinion. It's your opinion, whether you like him as a captain or not.

Wow really.

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(Notice that I said 'less'.) Stephen Fleming, a great captain, with an ODI average of 32 and a S/R of 71 perfectly fits the description. Of course, he accrued over 8000 runs over his ODI career.

Well He was indeed a good captain, but he won numerous matches for NZ just on his own batting, he was the consitent performer for them and one of their best batsmen ever.

If just one knock should credit a player the entire world cup success, then Gambhir deserves more credit than Dhoni.

Accurately put.

 

[Aditya]

Yes, I just don't think that all the credit Dhoni is getting is unfair. It's your choice to forget his failures or not, he performed when it was most needed, that's all. I'm not saying that Gambhir should not get much credit than Dhoni, in fact without Gambhir's performance we would have never won the world cup. But performing when you're the captain of the side and performing when you're in form are two different things. Gambhir was not really in bad form, he was getting out after playing good knocks of 30's and 40's. Where as Dhoni was struggling with his form and as a captain, taking the decision that he took was excellent for me, I don't know about others.

 

[Gaurav_7]

Forget the debate . But how's MSD talented? Just because he plays the HELICOPTER SHOT on a rare occasion? He is far off from being rated a 'talent' . A talented player is someone who's technically sound , something that sounds opposite when you name MSD . Imho for India - Sachin , Kohli , Gambhir are the only talented players , they're the ones who are technically sound and possess all the shots in the book . Even Gambhir shouldn't be considered a talent given he is yet to master the 'short balls' .

Wow. So, Sehwag is zero talent, right? Same is with all the batsmen who aren't technically sound. Talent and nature of play are different things. You're mixing them up. Also, you mean one has to master everything to be considered as 'talented'? Wrong view that.

 

[Bevab]

Forget the debate . But how's MSD talented? Just because he plays the HELICOPTER SHOT on a rare occasion? He is far off from being rated a 'talent' . A talented player is someone who's technically sound , something that sounds opposite when you name MSD . Imho for India - Sachin , Kohli , Gambhir are the only talented players , they're the ones who are technically sound and possess all the shots in the book . Even Gambhir shouldn't be considered a talent given he is yet to master the 'short balls' .

Where is Raina?!

And on the topic on Dhoni, his batting average is 48.78. Still I think we should discuss in a new thread, not litter this thread with Dhoni posts.

 

[Dipak]

Where is Raina?!

And on the topic on Dhoni, his batting average is 48.78. Still I think we should discuss in a new thread, not litter this thread with Dhoni posts.

You're taking as if average is everything.
Even Tom Cooper's avg is 55+ so you think he's better than Tendulkar.

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I'll say that yet again, though, he's overrated. BY THE PEOPLE. He hasn't done any wrong himself, and hasn't snatched credit wantonly.

This

 

[SaiSrini]

Sourav Ganguly was fearless and stubborn. He was aggressive and never feared about the media or other critics, whether it was his professional life or his personal life. Ganguly consistently gave opportunities to the (then) youngsters like Sehwag, Yuvraj and Harbhajan, even if they would fail on a more consistent basis. Many slammed Sourav for such decisions, but we all now know how good the players who grew under Ganguly's leadership have turned out. Had he not been firm on his decisions of giving good amount of opportunities to the youngsters, Indian cricket would have been in a huge mess now.

On the other hand there is a guy with the Midas touch, Mahendra Singh Dhoni. Agreed that he is a very good leader and has the ability to take the correct decisions when needed, but there is something that goes unnoticed. He lacks the fearlessness that Ganguly had. Dhoni fails to give opportunities to youngsters. Under Dhoni's captaincy, if a debutant fails in his first match and then in another one, he is OUT OF THE SQUAD! You can't analyze a player's class by one or two matches. Every newcomer should get at least one or two series to prove himself and not just a couple of matches. Even the likes of Sachin and Dravid fail sometimes, but that doesn't mean that they don't deserve to play cricket anymore.

Additionally, the guys who get the opportunities are by same means linked to his IPL side. Why was Manpreet Gony given a chance to play for India? Why is Saha given an opportunity now?
There are some guys who disagree with the fact of the CSK links, but even they know that when a player plays for CSK, his influence on Dhoni and the selectors is much more than someone else who plays better than him, but for some other team.

And Dhoni currently has a better side than Ganguly to lead, so its obvious that he will be more successful. Had Dhoni been the skipper of the Indian team when Ganguly was (in the early 2000s), he wouldn't have been as successful as he is today. Its the team which wins the matches and not the captain. A captain just acts as a catalyst and makes the way easier for his side, but the initiative comes from the players who are a part of his team.

I mentioned in one of my earlier posts where Ganguly did not captain after the onslaught of the T20 format where scoring at 10 runs/over to win a game isnt considered safe anymore and that bowlers and captains are under the pump far more greater.

Dhoni fails to give opportunities to youngsters? I believe Ashwin, Kohli, Chawla, Mithun, Jadeja etc are all youngsters. And when Dhoni has a more settled team to choose from and when the youngsters are getting more opportunities in the IPL and A tours, why does Dhoni need to give them chances in the national team when all he has to do is pick the best side to win games for India? Saurav didnt have the IPL in those days, but now the IPL gives chances to youngsters and gives them exposure. The selection committee picks the team and Dhoni gives most of the guys in the team chances (Dhoni doesnt have a vote in selection).

The side Ganguly had was better with most of our legends at their peak (e.g. Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman, Kumble) and Ganguly himself was a highly successful batsman. Right now, Dravid is out of touch, Sachin looks good but not as before, and Laxman remains the same, and we dont have Kumble and Ganguly.

 

[AkshayS]

The side Ganguly had was better with most of our legends at their peak (e.g. Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman, Kumble) and Ganguly himself was a highly successful batsman. Right now, Dravid is out of touch, Sachin looks good but not as before, and Laxman remains the same, and we dont have Kumble and Ganguly.

Well I don't really want to argue with that, but force of habit.
Agreed with Dravid fact.
Laxman is way better now, Tendulkar has been as good as ever, Sehwag is 5 times better, Gambhir is a solid batsman just like Ganguly, India have the best opening pair in the world, youngsters are performing unlike earlier, we have India's best keeper behind the wickets, we do miss Kumble but Zaheer has taken up the task of leading the attack, he is way better than ever.
I see no reason why this squad is not stronger than the one Ganguly had.

 

[Atharv]

No, I didnt bring Tendulkar because of you, I talked about him because you were using the word "overrated" and in India most players are overrated including Sachin Tendulkar.

All I will say is, every captain of India has been overrated. Saurav Ganguly was enormously overrated (they overrate him even now, more so than Dhoni). Same case with Dhoni too! If you think all this is called "overrated", yes Dhoni is overrated. But its all because our people have this tendency to do it.

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So a captain is rated well on what criteria? Can you explain it to me?

Sachin is the most under rated player in the history of cricket and Indians have contributed to it by trying to compare him with guys like Ganguly,Dravid and Dhoni. The impact that he has had on cricket(in economic as well as any other sense) is unparalleled . Sachin is my fav . So is Dhoni . But to say that Sachin is over rated just for the sake of counter argument is not cool.



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Additionally, the guys who get the opportunities are by same means linked to his IPL side. Why was Manpreet Gony given a chance to play for India? Why is Saha given an opportunity now?
There are some guys who disagree with the fact of the CSK links, but even they know that when a player plays for CSK, his influence on Dhoni and the selectors is much more than someone else who plays better than him, but for some other team.

Rahane Should have been in the WI team . His exclusion was a huge surprise .



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Dhoni fails to give opportunities to youngsters? I believe Ashwin, Kohli, Chawla, Mithun, Jadeja etc are all youngsters. And when Dhoni has a more settled team to choose from and when the youngsters are getting more opportunities in the IPL and A tours, why does Dhoni need to give them chances in the national team when all he has to do is pick the best side to win games for India? Saurav didnt have the IPL in those days, but now the IPL gives chances to youngsters and gives them exposure. The selection committee picks the team and Dhoni gives most of the guys in the team chances (Dhoni doesnt have a vote in selection).

IPL performance should not be a criterion for the national team selection .

 

[Varun]

Sachin is the most under rated player in the history of cricket and Indians have contributed to it by trying to compare him with guys like Ganguly,Dravid and Dhoni. The impact that he has had on cricket(in economic as well as any other sense) is unparalleled . Sachin is my fav . So is Dhoni . But to say that Sachin is over rated just for the sake of counter argument is not cool.

Are you serious? Sachin is considered a legend in India and elsewhere.

 

[Atharv]

Are you serious? Sachin is considered a legend in India and elsewhere.

Absolutely. When Sachin is compared to the likes of Dravid and Ponting it is amusing. If there can be any comparison at all it can only be with Don Bradman. The praise and regard that he is getting in recent times should have come his way quite earlier in his career. He was already a legend some years ago but Indian media(criticism by Kapil,Amarnath,Malhotra,Azad was absolutely shocking. Ajay Jadeja was the sole Tendulkar defender in those years,else any tom,dick harry was taking potshots at Sachin) and a section of people(booed in Mumbai, his homeground) criticised him for no rhyme or reason. He shut up their mouth for good by his ultra super performances after his injury.

 

[AbhishekS]

@Atharv: You are just making yourself sound silly. You seem to be one of the many idiotic fans who treat Tendulkar as God.