Pakistan Team Discussion

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Aislabie

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It wasn't exactly Iftikhar's fault that he was forced to bowl a high-pressure over - that wasn't any Pakistan player's fault, injuries happen - but definitely, he didn't seem at the level in the final, whether with bat or ball. 0 off 6 isn't a match-losing contribution, but it can have flow-on effects - and it certainly seemed to.
My problem isn't with Ifti's bowling - frankly I do not care in the slightest how good or bad the 7th-best bowler in the team is. My problem is that his batting is entirely unsuited to the role he keeps being picked to play.

1. I'd leave Rizwan up the top. I think you can have good success with a stabiliser and a hitter opening the batting. I've never really seen Babar as an opener, so he can drop down.
I mean, same. That's why I mentioned that the team I picked in the post was experimental to see what would and what wouldn't work. I like Rizwan as an opener, and I like the Babar-Rizwan partnership. Just because they are different to the norm doesn't make them bad. The idea of experimenting with two powerplay hitters is to see if those particular resources can be better optimised. If that does not prove to be consistently successful, then go back to the tried and tested by all means.

2. I agree the Windies side should be about development, but maybe also add one or two of the young guys you talked about to that squad. Development's plenty important. A young bat can come in for Fakhar, who I still wouldn't trust yet with that knee.
Yeah that's fair - I don't mind that plan at all.

3. With all due respect to Dilbar's mighty mustache, I watched him a couple times with the Stars and haven't seen many worse imports. Maybe he's good on slower tracks - I haven't seen him back in Pakistan, so I can't comment there - but I feel like that's an immensely questionable selection.
Equally, it would be unduly harsh to judge Dilbar by his Stars debut, when they thought it would be a good idea to bring in someone who'd never played a senior hard-ball cricket match, to make his professional debut in a foreign country in entirely unfamiliar conditions.

I see his skillset as being quite like Liam Plunkett - a good, decent pace bowler who can bowl into the pitch for four of the middle overs; if he can turn his pace profile into a three-pace style (with a stock ball, a slightly slower ball, and a much slower ball) then he will make himself impossible to set himself to. He already has almost all of those skills, and his natural length is about nine metres from the batter, so that's my reason for naming him.

Rizwan should be opening IMO. I feel he’s got more aggression in his game than Babar by a slight margin. I also believe Babar would fit a number three role better than Rizwan would. A lot of the times when Rizwan faces plenty of deliveries he usually turns that into a match winning knock or a performance that gives a good platform. Until recently he had only a handful of performances where he seemed to waste deliveries. I’m not sure of Babar‘s numbers on this aspect as I did not have a look. Wonder if Babar would be willing to drop down though, Wasim Akram did claim that Babar preferred opening in not so nice words and moving your most skilled batter away from his favoured position is a tale that often ends poorly in folklore….
Like I mentioned a few sentences ago, I honestly agree with what you're saying here - with two caveats.
  1. I would still favour exploring the options of specialist powerplay hitters, seeing if those particular resources can be maximised a bit better.
  2. I would also send Rizwan and Babar to play in the National T20 Cup and Pakistan Super League with the express objective of consistently scoring at over 140, to develop their skills.
I think Iftikhar isn’t needed as a specialist pace hitter for the next WC given it’s in West Indies where pitches have been very slow. His bowling could be useful but I don’t rate it as anything more than a part-time seventh option and Babar seems unwilling quite often to make use of his talent as a sixth bowler when he has the option of him or Khushdil let alone a seventh. Time to groom Azam Khan into the side and see what he’s capable of, the CPL experience will only help.
I'm quite unconvinced by Azam Khan in his current guise - for all the hype, he scores slower than Shan Masood and has far far worse fitness. I am also convinced that the two problems go hand in hand, which is why I would be looking to provide him a personal trainer to bring the absolute best out of his game. I do not mean to fat-shame here, but if he's going to play for Pakistan then he needs to be able to contribute to a high standard in the field from the first ball to the last.

Dilbar had one good season two years ago. Unfortunately he hasn't performed at all since then. I would rather take Hasan Ali before Dilbar
I also rate Hasan as the better bowler, quite before looking at his possible contributions as a hard-hitting number eight. But I do also see Dilbar as a possible role bowler in the same way as Liam Plunkett was for England - he has the exact right raw ingredients.

I feel like khushdil has been given a fair shake at the international level, he needs to back to the domestic level before being given another chance. I agree he was wasted by not being allowed to bowl but he was picked based on his batting and he did not perform at all.
22 T20I innings, averaged 20.60 and struck at 110. It was a really poor stint, and his two best innings by far came against Zimbabwe and Hong Kong - without those, it's a sub-100 strike rate which is awful.

I do think your assessment is completely valid; my assessment that he might be worth persisting with further is based only on him being one of the PSL's few very successful domestic hitters. If you're not going to let him bowl then you might as well get Asif Ali back in again.

I don't know who he pissed off to be taken off the team when was starting to get into form. I just hope he can find his form back
Agreed tbh. I like him as a cricketer.

that Windies series has been cancelled
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The next T20I assignment would be against a second-string New Zealand (thanks to the IPL), after the PSL concludes
That's definitely prime time for experimenting then; hopefully the PSL will have unearthed some more talented players to fill in some gaps by then as well.

Reports say Shaheen is gonna miss England and New Zealand series.
1668448873084.png

Can't keep blaming Asif Ali when you give him 6/7 balls a game and expect him to score 4 sixes a game from that. He is set up for failure. Its more about the approach then the players themselves.
How would you feel about Asif Ali possibly being given a new role as a powerplay hitter?
 

Ahmad94

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View attachment 272903

How would you feel about Asif Ali possibly being given a new role as a powerplay hitter?

A Shahid Afridi-esque role - the good old days.

Surprisingly, he has opened the batting in List A cricket - quite a bit at the start of his career. But the issue will always be - who is going to sacrifice themselves to give him a chance - Rizwan has definitely suited the opening the batting, not the kind of player to come anywhere below 3. Babar is another slow starter, plus you have Shan Masood and Mohammad Haris. Pakistan has very rarely been a side that makes radical changes and I doubt this will be one.

The thing that has annoyed me so much about him is that he has played 55 T20I in the last 4 years for Pakistan - barring the WC last year (vs Afg and NZ), I don't remember him learning or adapting his approach or showing any initiative with his batting or approach. There was a game in the recently concluded England T20 tour of Pakistan - where there was a batting collapse and he came in the 10/11th over - and he then tried to hit Mark Wood out of the park within the first 10 balls. Where is the logic? You're not 21, this isn't your first rodeo. I guess he knows there are no real options for his role so he will end up raking up those international games.
 

ddrap14

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My problem isn't with Ifti's bowling - frankly I do not care in the slightest how good or bad the 7th-best bowler in the team is. My problem is that his batting is entirely unsuited to the role he keeps being picked to play
Who's the sixth best? Because I don't really see anyone else.

Equally, it would be unduly harsh to judge Dilbar by his Stars debut, when they thought it would be a good idea to bring in someone who'd never played a senior hard-ball cricket match, to make his professional debut in a foreign country in entirely unfamiliar conditions.
This is probably true - although I do remember seeing him more than once, I thought. Could be faulty memory
 

icyman

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I fear Pakistan is getting blinded by reaching the Finals of the Asia Cup and WT20 by playing some mediocre cricket. Yes, they played well in the semis, but their faults were on display for everyone to see during this tournament. Their template of cricket too, is very similar to what India has a few years ago- good bowling attack,great openers, but lacked the density in the middle.

This can lead the team to KO and even finals, but one of these elements coming off means they will lose badly. Strengthen the middle order, perhaps have Babar there and it may help. India ought to have done the same with Rohit moving to the middle a few years ago, but didnt. Pakistan has a chance to rectify this, but probably wouldn;t given Babar's stubbornness.
 

Bevab

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Who's the sixth best? Because I don't really see anyone else.


This is probably true - although I do remember seeing him more than once, I thought. Could be faulty memory

A bowling attack of..

Shaheen
Naseem
Wasim jr
Rauf
Shadab
Nawaz

Does have six bowling options.
Post automatically merged:

I fear Pakistan is getting blinded by reaching the Finals of the Asia Cup and WT20 by playing some mediocre cricket. Yes, they played well in the semis, but their faults were on display for everyone to see during this tournament. Their template of cricket too, is very similar to what India has a few years ago- good bowling attack,great openers, but lacked the density in the middle.

This can lead the team to KO and even finals, but one of these elements coming off means they will lose badly. Strengthen the middle order, perhaps have Babar there and it may help. India ought to have done the same with Rohit moving to the middle a few years ago, but didnt. Pakistan has a chance to rectify this, but probably wouldn;t given Babar's stubbornness.

I did point out that eerie similarities between the two sides prior to the tournament and how Pakistan’s version seemed to be more refined than our older side.
 

Rehan_24

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What difference will that make? Clearly, the domestic structure doesn't have the level of competition or the quality to allow players to come out at that level -e.g. Khushdil has been the strongest power hitter in Pakistani domestic for some time (that includes the fastest T20 century). He was arguably one of the best bowlers in the last PSL for Multan Sultans.

Can't keep blaming Asif Ali when you give him 6/7 balls a game and expect him to score 4 sixes a game from that. He is set up for failure. Its more about the approach then the players themselves.

Waseem Jr has been the second-highest wicket-taker for us in ODI and T20 since the last year.

You have a point but the counter logic here is that our selectors go for Statistics and probably they don't see the potential one has no matter if someone doesn't have a highest runs or wickets in a domestic season. Talent picking eye isn't everyone's cup of tea actually. Its a rare quality. We are going towards statistics only and thats the reason these players collapse against quality sides and in crunch matches. A highest wicket taker for the last year is not expected to bowl such a loose short pitch over in a crunch final.

We do have much better players in the domestic circuit. There is a big lottery of players. Its just that the talent eye isn't there in my humble view.
 

Na Maloom Afraad

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All this talk about 'Golden Generations' during the FIFA WC has me thinking how Pakistan has probably squandered their best-ever opportunities of going on an unprecedented run of trophies with two T20 WCs, one Asia Cup and most likely the easiest route to a WTC, all in the span of a couple of years.

Don't even know who to blame here. Part of me thinks it's because this talented group of cricketers is under an absolutely bang average coach in Saqi. Or how Babar himself is far too conservative of a captain to make any bold decisions. Or how Hasan Ali grassed two crucial catches, one in the WC semi and one against the Windies in that agonizing away defeat.

Either way - it is absolutely infuriating, and I won't hear any defenses of this bullshittery.
 

Bevab

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All this talk about 'Golden Generations' during the FIFA WC has me thinking how Pakistan has probably squandered their best-ever opportunities of going on an unprecedented run of trophies with two T20 WCs, one Asia Cup and most likely the easiest route to a WTC, all in the span of a couple of years.

Don't even know who to blame here. Part of me thinks it's because this talented group of cricketers is under an absolutely bang average coach in Saqi. Or how Babar himself is far too conservative of a captain to make any bold decisions. Or how Hasan Ali grassed two crucial catches, one in the WC semi and one against the Windies in that agonizing away defeat.

Either way - it is absolutely infuriating, and I won't hear any defenses of this bullshittery.

Is this team that good though? I get your point that it's unlikely your lot will have an easier road to the WTC final in the future but this side still is a long way off from the best Pakistani sides in history.
 

wasteyouryouth

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Is this team that good though? I get your point that it's unlikely your lot will have an easier road to the WTC final in the future but this side still is a long way off from the best Pakistani sides in history.
I think they have the building blocks to be a good side - said this during the World Cup. A fully fit bowling line up that could be around for five to ten years. There's a few holes but I think, if anything, this team is overachieving.
 

Bevab

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I think they have the building blocks to be a good side - said this during the World Cup. A fully fit bowling line up that could be around for five to ten years. There's a few holes but I think, if anything, this team is overachieving.

They're a great T20I side but lack experience in ODIs and tests. Experience that they're consciously choosing to not build behind the scenes in favour of more T20Is and T20 games for their star names. It's reflected in the new FTP too.
 

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