Ashok Dinda = 140ks (consistently). Bye bye Ishant?

[Cricketman]

He is in his prime right now. His last peak was around 2003 WC, where Zak, Nehra, and Srinath were all consistently bowling 140+.

He is a better bowler now, and is a solid 130kmph bowler. He is one of the best quick bowlers in the world, of course he's a 'genuine' fast bowler.

 

[Dare]

I mean, don't West Indies produce a bowler in the high 140's/150's every few months? Currently they have Taylor, Edwards, Roach and Rampaul. They've had the likes of Tino Best, Pedro Collins, Jermaine Lawson, Darren Powell, Vasbert Drakes, etc. All of them pitch it at a great speed but they've been largely in and out of the side and West Indies have been languishing at the bottom of the Test table. Ambrose and Walsh were the last real Windies bowlers who actually got success and had speed. Taylor looks like he's heading that way.

West Indies languishing at the bottom of the test table has little to do with the speed their bowlers bowl at. The issues are allot deeper then that.
The only bowler that is any real quality out of the 2nd group you mentioned is Pedro Collins, had it not been for strikes and a few other issues bowlers like Best, Powell and Drakes would have never made the team. Lawson was good but then they figured that his arm bends allot more then the allowed limit so he wasn't allowed to bowl until he changed his action and he hasn't been heard of since.

Walsh is a great example of a guy giving up his speed to bowl good line and length and to prolong his career. When he started of he was one of the quickest around but during the 90s he toned it down and was a guy that bowled around 80-85 mph. Ambrose was usually allot quicker then Walsh was.

West Indies missed about 15 years of fast bowler coaching. That is the reason for the sudden fall in quality quick's. It has improved in recent years and there are a few bowlers in domestic cricket that can become good ones for the future.

Edwards,Taylor,Roach and Bravo is a quality pace attack the problem is will they ever complete a test series together.

 

[sohum]

West Indies languishing at the bottom of the test table has little to do with the speed their bowlers bowl at. The issues are allot deeper then that.

The reason I brought it up is because Hmarka suggested that anyone in the 130's would be dealt easily by the opposition when, in fact, speed is probably the least important factor of how successful a bowler is. West Indies have dealt with a lot more problems that has pushed them near the bottom of the table, but they had a decent batting line-up even after the retirement of Walsh/Ambrose and a crop of 140+ bowlers to choose from. As you mentioned, those bowlers weren't really any good apart from their speed.

sohum added 2 Minutes and 56 Seconds later...

Zaheer Khan bowled a lot faster than high 120s low 130k in his prime and also he is not a genuine quick bowler anyways

Zak was selected because he was genuinely quick and because of his killer yorkers back in the ICC Knockout World Cup that we shared with Sri Lanka (I think). Like all Indian pace bowlers, he focused more on line and length thereafter and has managed to do pretty well.

Our quickest bowler to have bowled in international cricket recently is probably VRV Singh who could push it up to the 150's. However, he was a really poor bowler and accordingly got dropped.

 

[Dare]

The reason I brought it up is because Hmarka suggested that anyone in the 130's would be dealt easily by the opposition when, in fact, speed is probably the least important factor of how successful a bowler is. West Indies have dealt with a lot more problems that has pushed them near the bottom of the table, but they had a decent batting line-up even after the retirement of Walsh/Ambrose and a crop of 140+ bowlers to choose from. As you mentioned, those bowlers weren't really any good apart from their speed.

Also the only bowler that really played a good amount of years with Ambrose and Walsh was Collins all the other bowlers got tossed in and were told hey go and bowl fast. They didn't have the proper time to bowl with some great quick bowlers and learn the art. Like Walsh/Ambrose/Bishop/Patterson had when they were just starting their careers.
In the case of Edwards and Taylor it was with just one domestic game they played when they were called up to the test team.


India would be better of making Sharma a mid 130s bowler that is as accurate as any with the ability to move the ball of the seam, after all that's what McGrath made his name out of. He also needs to clean up his action, there is too much going on.
Every bowler that has played for India in recent times was a 145+ bowler before he made his debut according to Indian cricket experts but then when he actually bowls he ends up being a 130+ bowler.

 

[sohum]

Every bowler that has played for India in recent times was a 145+ bowler before he made his debut according to Indian cricket experts but then when he actually bowls he ends up being a 130+ bowler.

Actually, almost every Indian pace bowler who has played recently as a frontline seamer has/had the ability to push it up to the 140's before injury/bowling coach forced them to change.

Munaf, VRV, Sreesanth, Zaheer, Ishant were all selected because of pace first. The notable exceptions are the likes of Nehra, RP and Irfan who were selected for their swing. Then, too, RP and Nehra have clocked in the 140's when bowling in England (maybe it was the speed gun that was broken?).

Each of these bowlers, except VRV, have had success during their career, which suggests that it's not their lack of speed which leads to their eventual failure, but something else.

 

[Prithvi]

Even same is the case with Vinay Kumar.
No one thinking of him

 

[SaiSrini]

I know speed is not everything but seeing as that is what this thread is discussing...........:sarcasm

So one person says it and it becomes everything.:sarcasm

He also said it would be curtains to Ishant if Dinda consistently bowled 140's. And our argument is that, its not curtains for Ishant because even if he has come down in his speed, he has all the ability to end up being like Zaheer who is in the high 130's but still relies on accuracy and control to be successful. I dont see why Ishant cant do that. Zaheer was also initially quite wayward and ordinary in ODI's. But later, he changed his game.

Those who watched the T20 match today, what speeds were Ishant and Nehra bowling at? Or even Dinda. I am confident that these bowlers are told to bend their backs when the pitch provides them with enough pace and bounce and not provide the pace if the pitch lacks it. In the match against Australia at Nagpur (the venue of yday's T20), Ishant and Nehra consistently clocked 140+ and the pitch has having very good pace and bounce.

SaiSrini added 0 Minutes and 51 Seconds later...

Even same is the case with Vinay Kumar.
No one thinking of him

I dont have hopes in him. I saw his bowling in the CLT20. Looks rubbish to me. He seems to have picked lot of wickets in domestic cricket, but I feel he will be another case of 'domestic champion, international failure'.

 

[pcfan123]

Nehra seemed to be the fastest in the highlights that I saw. He was touching 144 at one point and was over 140 consistently

 

[SaiSrini]

Just saw the highlights. Ishant at 134-138kph was constantly troubling Dilshan and Jayasuriya and was splendid. Nehra at 141-144 was clobbered by Jayasuriya and Dilshan in that initial overs....

Ishant was excellent in that spell. Is Sreesanth's comeback hurting him from inside? If that can turn around the corner for him, GREAT!!

 

[drainpipe32]

Ishants the future of Indian bowling IMO. 20 years of age and has already shown some great potential. Troubled us in Australia and then owned us in conditions that didn't suit quicks back home.

 

[sohum]

Ishants the future of Indian bowling IMO. 20 years of age and has already shown some great potential. Troubled us in Australia and then owned us in conditions that didn't suit quicks back home.

He's going to be plagued by injury, I feel.

 

[Yogy]

Dinda, I hate him, One of the worst bowler to have played for India. :

 

[SaiSrini]

Was not impressed with Dinda at all from the highlights that I saw of yday's game. I dont think he will be a major option for us in the coming years.

 

[drainpipe32]

People are so quick to bash. Can't remember anyone saying this about Ishant after he totalled us last October.

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

Dinda is just a mear replacement of Zak in India Team. Zak will come and Dinda will be replaced and H.Singh will come and replace R.Ashwin