England and South Africa are the same

[madmick96]

I reckon England and South Africa are almost the same, compare the players:
Stephen* Harmison: Makhaya* Ntini
Matthew Hoggard: Shaun Pollock (possibly)
Simon Jones: Dale Steyn or Garnett Kruger?
Andrew Flintoff: Jaques Kallis
Asley Giles: Nicky Boje
James Anderson: Dale Steyn or Garnett Kruger?

The most players that are the same are probably Harmison, Flintoff and Giles.

 

[duffarama]

Moved to Cricket Chat Forum.

 

[sid_19840]

True to an extent,but the South Africans are not as good at the reverse swing as the English,and they are a much better ODI side according to the last few games.

 

[rickyp]

pollock and flintoff maybe, both all rounders? kallis is a far better batsman than flintoff and flintoff is a far better bowler than kallis so pollock might be a better fit.

Strauss and Smith maybe, same impact early in test careers?

Trescothick and no one really, gibbs maybe? speed is very dissimilar

simon jones is a bit out of the leagues of kruger and steyn

steyn = tremlett or plunket
kruger = anderson

 

[Ritwik]

And will you compare Peiterson (sp?) with Boeta Dippenaar ?

 

[Stephen Bailey]

And will you compare Peiterson (sp?) with Boeta Dippenaar ?

The following is what would be my best England team from say the Ashes to now. The South African side is based on the one that is playing New Zealand today:
Trescothick v Smith: Trescothick please, Smith can't seem to handle top notch quick/swing bowling. This is backed up by the fact he didn't make a fifty in six tests against Australia. He also struggled against England in the 2004/5 series.
Strauss v de Villiers: Strauss at the moment. De Villiers has a lot of talent, but also a long way to go. Potential future keeper.
Vaughan v Dippenaar: Very tight, Vaughan hasn't exactly been setting the world on fire and Dippenaar hasn't been able to transfer his ODI form to test cricket yet.
Collingwood v Amla: Collingwood seems to finally have got the hang of test cricket, whilst Amla is only just starting out in international cricket and at 23, has time on his side.
Pietersen v Prince: Pietersen, I say no more!
Flintoff v Kallis: Kallis is a top class batsman, one of the best about, however, his bowling has paid the price and is now not really good enough. Flintoff's batting and bowling ability these days would get him in as the all-rounder. I suspect Vaughan v Kallis would be a better comparison, but as Kallis is still classed as an all-rounder...
G Jones v Boucher: Boucher, comfortably. He's been playing well lately, made runs against Australia in tests and ODI's, whereas Jones is still struggling.
Giles v Boje: Possibly Boje here simply because he is a much better batsman. Neither are really test standard spinners.
Hoggard v Steyn: Both move the ball, although Steyn is considerably quicker, I'd have Hoggard. Experienced, still improving, lethal with the new ball, more than handy with the old.
S Jones v Nel: Another toughy, two fiery characters. Nel's been very good although he had a poor series v Australia in South Africa (down to injury?), whilst Simon Jones had a fantastic series against Australia, swinging the new (Lord's, Trent Bridge) and the old ball (most memorably at Old Trafford) but keeps getting injured and having to start all over again. Nel is also very accurate, very rarely concedes over 3 runs per over
Harmison v Ntini: If Harmison is in form, it's no contest, however, he hasn't been at his best for a while now and Ntini is taking wickets for fun at the moment, so currently Ntini.

England 6 - 3 South Africa with 2 tough calls, on another day I would be comparing different players!
I've always liked the South African team, there is a lot of talent in it, but it somehow doesn't seem to click. Perhaps it's the captain, perhaps it's the coach, whatever it is, something just doesn't work.

On Pollock, whilst his bowling is still very accurate, it isn't quick enough for test cricket anymore. This was highlighted against Australia where he took very few wickets for a lot in both series.

 

[kodos]

I agree with you stevie. England and Sth Africa on paper look very similar but performances says otherwise. England are better in test matches while Sth Africa are better if not the best in ODI's atm.

 

[genghis_khan]

i think if Ntini & Harmison are both in full flight they are very dangerous but i think Ntini would take the cake.

the giles-boje comparison is very accurate, both also handy lower order bats

Kallis and Flintoff are two very different types of allrounders though, i dont think they can be compared.

Trescothick definately over Smith...at least Trescothick can score runs against australia

 

[angryangy]

The following is what would be my best England team from say the Ashes to now. The South African side is based on the one that is playing New Zealand today:
Trescothick v Smith: Trescothick please, Smith can't seem to handle top notch quick/swing bowling. This is backed up by the fact he didn't make a fifty in six tests against Australia. He also struggled against England in the 2004/5 series.
Strauss v de Villiers: Strauss at the moment. De Villiers has a lot of talent, but also a long way to go. Potential future keeper.
Vaughan v Dippenaar: Very tight, Vaughan hasn't exactly been setting the world on fire and Dippenaar hasn't been able to transfer his ODI form to test cricket yet.
Collingwood v Amla: Collingwood seems to finally have got the hang of test cricket, whilst Amla is only just starting out in international cricket and at 23, has time on his side.
Pietersen v Prince: Pietersen, I say no more!
Flintoff v Kallis: Kallis is a top class batsman, one of the best about, however, his bowling has paid the price and is now not really good enough. Flintoff's batting and bowling ability these days would get him in as the all-rounder. I suspect Vaughan v Kallis would be a better comparison, but as Kallis is still classed as an all-rounder...
G Jones v Boucher: Boucher, comfortably. He's been playing well lately, made runs against Australia in tests and ODI's, whereas Jones is still struggling.
Giles v Boje: Possibly Boje here simply because he is a much better batsman. Neither are really test standard spinners.
Hoggard v Steyn: Both move the ball, although Steyn is considerably quicker, I'd have Hoggard. Experienced, still improving, lethal with the new ball, more than handy with the old.
S Jones v Nel: Another toughy, two fiery characters. Nel's been very good although he had a poor series v Australia in South Africa (down to injury?), whilst Simon Jones had a fantastic series against Australia, swinging the new (Lord's, Trent Bridge) and the old ball (most memorably at Old Trafford) but keeps getting injured and having to start all over again. Nel is also very accurate, very rarely concedes over 3 runs per over
Harmison v Ntini: If Harmison is in form, it's no contest, however, he hasn't been at his best for a while now and Ntini is taking wickets for fun at the moment, so currently Ntini.

England 6 - 3 South Africa with 2 tough calls, on another day I would be comparing different players!
I've always liked the South African team, there is a lot of talent in it, but it somehow doesn't seem to click. Perhaps it's the captain, perhaps it's the coach, whatever it is, something just doesn't work.

On Pollock, whilst his bowling is still very accurate, it isn't quick enough for test cricket anymore. This was highlighted against Australia where he took very few wickets for a lot in both series.

Although I agree that England have the superior team, this form of comparison is well stacked in their favour. Gibbs is missing and I disagree with your assessment of Pollock, he has been injured much and only really needs a good opportunity to recover less than 5% of his pace to be back to his best.

Anyway, I agree with what you were saying about "not clicking." I think the South Africans have been at their best when they have a real firebrand in their team to get behind. When Allan Donald led the attack for example, they were truly potent and won far more matches than they lost, even though they lacked a strong batting order.

 

[genghis_khan]

Anyway, I agree with what you were saying about "not clicking." I think the South Africans have been at their best when they have a real firebrand in their team to get behind. When Allan Donald led the attack for example, they were truly potent and won far more matches than they lost, even though they lacked a strong batting order.

remember they had Gary Kirsten back at that point in time...i'd say it was a fairly strong batting order.

 

[valvolux]

Although I agree that England have the superior team, this form of comparison is well stacked in their favour. Gibbs is missing and I disagree with your assessment of Pollock, he has been injured much and only really needs a good opportunity to recover less than 5% of his pace to be back to his best.

Anyway, I agree with what you were saying about "not clicking." I think the South Africans have been at their best when they have a real firebrand in their team to get behind. When Allan Donald led the attack for example, they were truly potent and won far more matches than they lost, even though they lacked a strong batting order.

The south africans had a lot of chances in australia to take a couple of tests, but dropped catches and little things like that let them down. I think with the list they have, they could potentially beat anyone in the world - but taking their hard nosed in your face approach is hard to sustain when you have some narrow losses - they just faded out towards the end of the summer.

Pollock is still a sensational bowler - he was injured when he left Australia and for whatever reason they decided to keep him in those first few ODIs which he could've easily sat out considering the aussies were playing with a seconds string side...he didn't and his bowling never recovered. But his batting was outstanding. Kallis on the other hand showed a little less with the bat, but a lot more with the ball.

 

[Maxkarter]

I've always liked the South African team, there is a lot of talent in it, but it somehow doesn't seem to click. Perhaps it's the captain, perhaps it's the coach, whatever it is, something just doesn't work.

I've highlighted what I think is the problem to our lackluster test performances. If you look back at the last coach change before the current one where Ray Jennings was brought in, our squad was completely and utterly useless, and Ray got things back in order and we built up a huge amount of momentum and started to win matches again. The UCB made a huge mistake by hiring Mickey Arthur ( He coached a sub standard domestic team and got sub standard results mostly ) Since the Micky Arthur era has begun I feel we have gone backwards in most areas of our play, even our ODI squad looked incredibly shaky in Australia. Personally I would love to see Micky Arthur fired before the World Cup.

 

[Sureshot]

I reckon England and South Africa are almost the same, compare the players:
Stephen* Harmison: Makhaya* Ntini
Matthew Hoggard: Shaun Pollock (possibly)
Simon Jones: Dale Steyn or Garnett Kruger?
Andrew Flintoff: Jaques Kallis
Asley Giles: Nicky Boje
James Anderson: Dale Steyn or Garnett Kruger?

The most players that are the same are probably Harmison, Flintoff and Giles.

At this moment in time.

Hoggy>Pollock. Pollock isn't anywhere near as good as he was.
Jones> Steyn AND Kruger
Kallis bowling is very ineffective in comparison to Freddie, Although kallis is a better batsman.

Anderson isn't even our first choice.

I'd still put him over Steyn though.

 

[James219]

Trescothick definately over Smith...at least Trescothick can score runs against australia

They're similar in the sense that both are yet to score Test centuries against Australia....

 

[puddleduck]

It did take Trescothick a while to get over his problems against Australia, McGrath and the just outside offstump line in particular. In the most recent Ashes he confirmed himself as one of the premier openers in World Cricket, coupled with his consistently scoring over 1000 test runs a year for 3 years it was the sausage on the mash